Eric Hartley: Censorship shows police culture of overreach - The Capital - 08/11/09

The following two comments are posted on The Capital Readers' Comment section. You can also post your comments on the newspaper's website. Let them know what you feel as a Puerto Rican or friend of Puerto Rico. Be sure to post your comments also on this Topix thread.
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third world - 2009-11-08 21:42:09

John. As a resident of Puerto Rico, I can assure you that police here are NOTHING like their counterparts in the mainland US.

They constantly abuse their authority, are ineffective when investigating crimes (to the point that federal assistance is the norm for high crimes), and are quite lackadaisical in regards to traffic enforcement, police reports, etc.

Furthermore, there are incidents of corruption that appear regularly on local press.

About the only thing they don't do that true third world police in the region do are shake people down for money.

Proof of this are the local attorneys whose practices are primarily comprised of defending officers in state and federal court of U.S.C. 1983 violations.

Comment hidden due to low ranking. Why is this comment hidden?

Robert Krex - San Juan, PR - Karma: Neutral

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When did this happen?- 2009-11-08 09:56:33

When did Puerto Rico gain its independence? Last time I checked it was still part of the good ole US of A.

Granted it is a bit of a stepchild--but they do have non voting representation in Congress and are governed by the US Constitution.

Overzealous cops are everywhere, but to compare AA cops to PR cops as if it is some third world nation is not fair.

John Frenaye - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

The police in the U.S. are as corrupt as they are anywhere else.

NOT REALLY wrote:

The police in the U.S. are as corrupt as they are anywhere else.

Are the police corrupt in Canada? Say no... I remember all those film musicals with Jeanette McDonald and Nelso Eddy singing about those wonderful, stout hearted men of the Canadian Mounties.

The police are very polite in England. "Pardon me sir, I will need to arrest you for murder. Please be so kind as to put both hands forward in order I will be able to put these handcuffs on. I hope you will find comby Her Majesty's lodging for you near Old Bailey. Cheerio... Old Chap."

Correcting typos:

Nelson Eddy ---- I hope you will find comfy...

Upfront Yankee wrote:

<quoted text>
Are the police corrupt in Canada? Say no... I remember all those film musicals with Jeanette McDonald and Nelso Eddy singing about those wonderful, stout hearted men of the Canadian Mounties.
The police are very polite in England. "Pardon me sir, I will need to arrest you for murder. Please be so kind as to put both hands forward in order I will be able to put these handcuffs on. I hope you will find comby Her Majesty's lodging for you near Old Bailey. Cheerio... Old Chap."

I would not know. I do not live in Canada. I live in the U.S.

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
I would not know. I do not live in Canada. I live in the U.S.

Under your Topix name is always Toronto, Canada....????

I may live in California now, but lived in San Juan, PR for over 12 years until 2005. In that time, I saw police beat young people with their batons who were totally passive, but in a neighborhood where people above their cast lived. I saw it happen twice in front of the Walgreens in Condado in broad daylight. I saw two police beat the crap out of a young man on Condado Avenue who said or did nothing but walk towards the beach.

I knew one young man who was driven to the garbage dump & was beaten so bad that his leg was broken. His family had to pay for two operations to make the leg right. He was a talented artist & was so small he couldn't beat his way out of a paper bag.

The Commonwealth police physically abuse defenseless citizens regularly.

I do agree that police everywhere have bad apples, but in PR they are everywhere. I have lived in Pittsburgh, PA; New York, NY; and San Francisco, CA. I have only seen such beatings once in the 80s when police invaded the Castro district & beat & trampled gays on the street. Of course, the police were hauled into court & made to pay damages...and, made to apologize to the community for their actions. In that case there was some justice.

I can't speak to other places, but know for fact that police in PR are "criminally" out of control regularly, and very seldom punished for such abuses. It does make a difference if you capture their actions on video, and share it with the media.

In one case, I did contact the ACLU, but they do not take cases in PR.

Upfront Yankee wrote:

<quoted text>
Under your Topix name is always Toronto, Canada....????

It's not by choice. I live in Delaware.

Yeepi wrote:

I may live in California now, but lived in San Juan, PR for over 12 years until 2005. In that time, I saw police beat young people with their batons who were totally passive, but in a neighborhood where people above their cast lived. I saw it happen twice in front of the Walgreens in Condado in broad daylight. I saw two police beat the crap out of a young man on Condado Avenue who said or did nothing but walk towards the beach.
I knew one young man who was driven to the garbage dump & was beaten so bad that his leg was broken. His family had to pay for two operations to make the leg right. He was a talented artist & was so small he couldn't beat his way out of a paper bag.
The Commonwealth police physically abuse defenseless citizens regularly.
I do agree that police everywhere have bad apples, but in PR they are everywhere. I have lived in Pittsburgh, PA; New York, NY; and San Francisco, CA. I have only seen such beatings once in the 80s when police invaded the Castro district & beat & trampled gays on the street. Of course, the police were hauled into court & made to pay damages...and, made to apologize to the community for their actions. In that case there was some justice.
I can't speak to other places, but know for fact that police in PR are "criminally" out of control regularly, and very seldom punished for such abuses. It does make a difference if you capture their actions on video, and share it with the media.
In one case, I did contact the ACLU, but they do not take cases in PR.

I would not dare venture to speculate why those events happened. I have never seen or experienced anything like that in PR. I can only tell you that I have had many bad experiences with police in the tri-state area where I live: NJ/PA/DE. I am a law-abiding citizen and have never done anything illegal. Most cops put on a pretense of being guardians of law and order but they have their own silent code of conduct behind the scenes.

Yeepi wrote:

I may live in California now, but lived in San Juan, PR for over 12 years until 2005. In that time, I saw police beat young people with their batons who were totally passive, but in a neighborhood where people above their cast lived. I saw it happen twice in front of the Walgreens in Condado in broad daylight. I saw two police beat the crap out of a young man on Condado Avenue who said or did nothing but walk towards the beach.
I knew one young man who was driven to the garbage dump & was beaten so bad that his leg was broken. His family had to pay for two operations to make the leg right. He was a talented artist & was so small he couldn't beat his way out of a paper bag.
The Commonwealth police physically abuse defenseless citizens regularly.
I do agree that police everywhere have bad apples, but in PR they are everywhere. I have lived in Pittsburgh, PA; New York, NY; and San Francisco, CA. I have only seen such beatings once in the 80s when police invaded the Castro district & beat & trampled gays on the street. Of course, the police were hauled into court & made to pay damages...and, made to apologize to the community for their actions. In that case there was some justice.
I can't speak to other places, but know for fact that police in PR are "criminally" out of control regularly, and very seldom punished for such abuses. It does make a difference if you capture their actions on video, and share it with the media.
In one case, I did contact the ACLU, but they do not take cases in PR.

Renenber the nut case ... Robot Cop? He would steal teenagers' drugs when they are on the beach at night to use himself. He was weird!!!! Also, I noted those brave Puerto Rican cops in the Condado area would always pick on a small kid to beat up. They could be cowards and bullies.... and dumb as hell!

Police are corrupt all over, but in Puerto Rico, is too another extreme entirely!

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
It's not by choice. I live in Delaware.

Are you sure you live in Delaware?

TJM wrote:

Police are corrupt all over, but in Puerto Rico, is too another extreme entirely!

Why would you post a thing like that?

It is written in the article that Mr. Amador: "admires America".

In my 53 yrs of age, I have never heard a Puerto Rican use those words.

In fact, I remember when my folks took me to see West Side Story, back in the early 60's...what struck me the most were the words of a song "...I want to live in America..."

Since the '30's I have family living (and going, back and forth to the States); both my parents went to school and college in the States, and everyone calls the state, by the specific name.

In fact, I lived part of my life in Latin America, and those Latin Americans going, back and forth, to the states; never referred to the as America.

They always talked about "los Estados", short name for Estados Unidos.

The article is not precise.

Jorge de P.Rico

Jorge wrote:

It is written in the article that Mr. Amador: "admires America".
In my 53 yrs of age, I have never heard a Puerto Rican use those words.
In fact, I remember when my folks took me to see West Side Story, back in the early 60's...what struck me the most were the words of a song "...I want to live in America..."
Since the '30's I have family living (and going, back and forth to the States); both my parents went to school and college in the States, and everyone calls the state, by the specific name.
In fact, I lived part of my life in Latin America, and those Latin Americans going, back and forth, to the states; never referred to the as America.
They always talked about "los Estados", short name for Estados Unidos.
The article is not precise.
Jorge de P.Rico

Jorge:
Being as old as I am surprises me how can you live so much in denial. The newspaper article quoted Mr. Amador, I don't think they made the quote up to make the article "sell" better. There is people in Puerto Rico and in ALL of Latin America who admire America and the principles in which it was founded. That is why so many people from all over the world come to the US. They are looking for a fair shake of the American Dream. Be it true or not that you can have a fair shake in this country is another story. And, yes, that includes people from PR. I have lived in both places for many years. Yes, there are corrupt police in both places. My only surprise about this article is that Mr. Amador did not expected that. Now, could it be possible that the paper quoted Mr. Amador right because Mr. Amador was trying very hard to sound like a yanqui? When you speak another language, most people would tend to use the same lexicon that the locals use so they can be easily understood. That is how locals can pick people from other counties, because their use of the vernacular is different than the regional modisms. With that being said, that is how most americans would refer to "the states".

Metpr wrote:

<quoted text>
Jorge:
Being as old as I am surprises me how can you live so much in denial. The newspaper article quoted Mr. Amador, I don't think they made the quote up to make the article "sell" better. There is people in Puerto Rico and in ALL of Latin America who admire America and the principles in which it was founded. That is why so many people from all over the world come to the US. They are looking for a fair shake of the American Dream. Be it true or not that you can have a fair shake in this country is another story. And, yes, that includes people from PR. I have lived in both places for many years. Yes, there are corrupt police in both places. My only surprise about this article is that Mr. Amador did not expected that. Now, could it be possible that the paper quoted Mr. Amador right because Mr. Amador was trying very hard to sound like a yanqui? When you speak another language, most people would tend to use the same lexicon that the locals use so they can be easily understood. That is how locals can pick people from other counties, because their use of the vernacular is different than the regional modisms. With that being said, that is how most americans would refer to "the states".

Do you know of any Puerto Rican who calls the U.S.- "AMERICA"?

Reread my posting, again!

Jorge wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you know of any Puerto Rican who calls the U.S.- "AMERICA"?
Reread my posting, again!

NO.

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
NO.

Exacto.

Algunos medios (especialmente los mas provincianos) insisten en la "extranjería" de los puertorriqueños; al punto que muchos borícuas, aquí y allá se comportan como inmigrantes extrajeros que tienen que asimilarse porque están en otro país, que no es el suyo.

Esa es, parte del legado del ELA, que hay que deconstruir. Esos mitos, que tienen ya tres generaciones y de los cuales el ELA se nutre. Hay que acabar con la confusión.

Jorge

Jorge wrote:

<quoted text>
Why would you post a thing like that?

From my experience Jorge, living in both the US, and PR, I never had any trouble with the police in the US, but on the contrary, the PR police were rude, arrogant, threatening, and all I was doing was driving to work, nothing illegal.

Plus, I would get a speeding ticket on average one or two a year in Puerto Rico. You know how many speeding tickets I got living the same amount of years when compared to living in PR while I was in US......NONE!!!!!!

Plus once, when I was trying to help a friend, the police officer started to yell at me while he had his hand on his gun,,,this was in PR. I have alot of stories of the corrupt and abusive officers of Puerto Rico while I lived there. No wonder so many officers are in trouble with domestic violence accusations in Puerto Rico.

TJM wrote:

<quoted text>
From my experience Jorge, living in both the US, and PR, I never had any trouble with the police in the US, but on the contrary, the PR police were rude, arrogant, threatening, and all I was doing was driving to work, nothing illegal.
Plus, I would get a speeding ticket on average one or two a year in Puerto Rico. You know how many speeding tickets I got living the same amount of years when compared to living in PR while I was in US......NONE!!!!!!
Plus once, when I was trying to help a friend, the police officer started to yell at me while he had his hand on his gun,,,this was in PR. I have alot of stories of the corrupt and abusive officers of Puerto Rico while I lived there. No wonder so many officers are in trouble with domestic violence accusations in Puerto Rico.

And to what do you attribute such behavior?

Jorge de P.Rico