Why is Mrs Clinton coming to the Philippines?

arthur wrote:

As Washington goes so does Manila. Marcos was done as soon as Washington offered Hawaii; Estrada's exit was being circulated in the US long before EDSA2. Washington swallowed its tongue during the height of the ZTE/NBN crisis.
Now we hope Sec. Clinton told Pres. Arroyo in no uncertain words "not to influence (cheat) the 2010 elections".
$2M - a case of "less is better" until proper accounting is in place.

Just because Hilary tell the FAKE president of cebu Gloria Arroyo, Not to CHEAT, THATS DON'T MEAN SHE'S NOT GOING TO CHEAT. ONCE A CHEAT, IS ALWAYS A CHEAT. And what make you think she's going to listen to what Hilary Clinton going to tell her. When she's going to steal, steal big in order to have plenty of money to payoff all her goons to protect her from her stolen power. U.S.GOV ERNMENT ARE SO STUPID for given plenty of money to the corrupt philippines government. Just so they can use the philippines for balikatan exerces....! American government haven't learn a darm thing after getting kick out from the philippines. They should go to other places!

Don’t get too emotional, people. Objectivity flies out of the window when one gets too emotional. Instead of being hostile because someone ruffled your feathers with his version of truth, you should have instead focused on the issue at hand, which is the VFA, and see why there is a calling for its abrogation. What are the reasons behind it instead of measuring or “ipa mukha sa Pilipino” what the American people did to help. The world over already knows how deep in debt the Philippines is to the US.

Okay the US helped the Philippines, big deal! So are you saying the Philippines should just forget its right to say NO to the US, because of those “utang na loob” or blood debt, and give whatever the US wants including its political rights because of utang na loob? What happen to you peope? No wonder half of the world hate Americans because you are creating a monster out of the US.

Do you want the Philippines to erect a monument in the likeness of each soldier who helped the Philippines? Would that appease everyone? Do you want each Pilipino to wear a tag of debt that declares “gee, I wouldn’t have survived Ondoy if not for the American soldiers”,“gee I couldn’t have experienced walking on a concrete road, if not for the US soldiers who came to the Philippines to build them”. Is it the kind of appreciation you wanted the Philippines to show the world? Is that how you treat the “kamag anaks” you helped back home? Considering yourselves high and mighty because you helped them?

VISAYA: the soldier you are talking about was tried; you should know that because it was all over the media and in the end he was detained at the US Embassy because of the VF Agreement. I think this one is debatable; an issue needs to be resolved under the VF Agreement – if you only read the Excerpts copied and posted instead of ranting.

VISAYA: Protesting and demonstration is a democratic process. Even in the US Pilipinos protests. And in case you are not aware, the US introduced democracy to the Philippines. In the US they would even mock government officials on TV, talking about respect. And mind you, those protesters don’t speak for the whole Philippines. People grumbles and protests on a daily basis. It’s happens everywhere. Disgusting? I did not see you post a protest when Arroyo was greeted by Pilipino protesters in the US? You did not show your disgust over Pilipinos conduct in the US. Why was it because she is perceived to be corrupt and deserves it?

VISAYA & JMBRO: Yes you know your history but I think you choose to ignore it. I discussed about it only in response to “what if” and North Korea scenarios, North Korea raining nukes on the Philippines if the US won’t be there to help the Philippines, like there is no other way for the Philippines to survive without the US. I was merely pointing out the pros and cons for the Philippines with and without the US in times of conflict based on the past. I’m talking about the whole picture not just the part I wanted to see.

VISAYA: you should not be blinded by your emotion and belittle the Pilipinos because of your passionate admiration for the US. Again look at the VFA Excerpts Jane Abao has posted and see the connection why the VFA has to be reviewed or cancelled. Focus your argument on the VFA, don’t just say you don’t care; otherwise you won’t be posting on this thread, right?

And for JMBRO you’re barking up the wrong tree. Don’t attack Jane, she did not wrote those VFA excerpts, she just copied them somewhere. It’s the agreement that this topic is all about. And read the header, it says Clinton is in the Philippines to ensure VFA stays.

AGAIN, BASED ON THE EXISTING VF AGREEMENT (READ THE EXCERPTS), DO THE PHILIPPINES AND ITS PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL FOR THE REVIEW OR CANCELLATION OF THE VFA?

HIGH BLOOD KAYONG MASYADO!

Be Fair,
Perhaps it is time to sever all ties with the Philippines. Afterall China has a great interest in the country and it is only a matter of time before the country sells out to China anyway. The best part is the U.S. can save millions of dollars worth of foreign aid that is not appreciated by many to start with. The country needs to be more self sufficent. China will not be a babysitter!!!

Yeah...I think it is high time the U.S. pay attention to the needs of those people in Myanmar. Why is the U.S. not doing anything about Myanmar? Hard to crack eh? Maybe we can send our rag tag army and the MILF integrees to Burma and crack it wide open, free the lady and hang the gooks by the balls af if we can really do it, lol!

Blame the Filipino politicians who did a half-witted job on the VFA.

Be Fair...I cannot quote you co'z you're too wordy. But this is for you.

I know you mean well. Are you telling us you want the Philippines to be a fence sitter, an observer? Watch the U.S. gets clubbered and do nothing even an ounce of protest? Are you saying you only wanted Uncle Sam for the Philippines during happy times with his bag of goodies? Come on, man!

She, Deb Eugene, braver then all the dumbed down masses, she is right why train soldiers as killing machines for most of the ruling elites corrupted agendas those are dirty war-for-profitering enterprises, immoral political agendas etc.,

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I love to study history. How charitable is that ? NOPE! Yea right helping China ,(You making me laugh here!) as the sly insidious USA leaders only thinking of themselves and don't want both power to rise in the world. But, the US is more afraid of what the modern Japanese empire could do to US political/ economic sphere of influence around the globe during WW2. If the japanese ever reach strategic location that is Hawaii, aftraid Japanese will invade America. So the US leaders only thinking of themselves, why not fight Japanese on China's soil and cause some damage to China's infrastructure and at same tome take out Japanese. Yea Right?

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Japanese Want The US Military Out Of Japan | NEWS JUNKIE POST

Sixty four years after the end of World War II, 47,000 US troops are still stationed in Japan. Today, an estimated 21,000 Japanese rallied in Okinawa in protest of the US military base on the island. The rally is putting pressure on the new center ...;Japanese Want The US Military Out Of Japan”... newsjunkiepost.com/2009/11/08/japanese-want-t ....

US Militarism into Africa, as many are many protest agisnt the US !
StratCom in Context: The Hidden Architecture of U.S. Militarism |

The Encarta Encyclopedia describes militarism as advocacy of an ever-stronger military as a primary goal of society, even at the cost of other social priorities and liberties; And ... 2. United States Africa Command (AFRICOM),...;Within Global Strike, US nuclear forces contribute uniquely and fundamentally to deterrence --
www.afterdowningstreet.org/militarism

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US Labor Against the War : U.S. Militarism & Global Tensions Rise

This election is probably the most important most of us have ever faced. And its outcome is ...** On-going threats of U.S. military attack and/or escalation in Iran and Pakistan, including from inside Israel, continue to destabilize the broad Middle East/Central Asia region.... U.S. Militarism & Global Tensions Rise Together ;
www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php ...

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Unusually Large U.S. Weapons Shipment to Israel: Are the US and

Numerous official statements and US military documents have pointed to an expanded Middle East war.... The reinforcement of Israel's missile defenses combined with the large shipments of US weapons are part of an escalation scenario, which could lead the World under an Obama Administration into a broader Middle East war.
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LOOK YOU ARE a War monger that support war-for-profitering enterprises ... that been get our US into trouble around the globe, are you even human?

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Look at it this way! They are not anti-american because as global community, the populace of little people like you and most have to look after each other, we have only one earth as world corrupted US leaders are little by little destroying our home call earth, the wars, the dissensions... Actually, they venting against our immoral/bad US govt policy(s), can't blame them and is it so bad to criticize USA to revamp it bad ways? Do our leaders really care about the human race?

EXCERPT B:

Controversy

The U.S. has at least twice used the Agreement to keep accused military personnel under U.S. jurisdiction.[4][5] This most recently occurred on January 18, 2006, when the U.S. refused to hand over custody four soldiers accused of rape during the period of their trial in Filipino courts.[5] This has led to unrest amongst many in the Philippines, who believe that the Agreement is one-sided, prejudicial to Filipinos, and a fetter on the sovereignty of the Philippines. The Agreement is seen by some Filipinos as granting immunity from prosecution to U.S. military personnel who commit crimes against Filipinos, and is seen by some as treating Filipinos as second class citizens in their own country.

As a result of these issues, the Philippine government has considered terminating the VFA.[6]

EXCERPT C:

Constitutionality

The constitutionality of the VFA was challenged in Bayan v. Zamora, which the Supreme Court of the Philippines, sitting En banc, dismissed on October 10, 2000.[7] A second challenge, Suzette Nicolas y Sombilon Vs. Alberto Romulo, et al./ Jovito R. Salonga, et al. Vs. Daniel Smith, et al./ Bagong Alyansang Makabayan, et al. Vs. President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, et al. submitted on January 2, 2007, was decided on February 11, 2009, again by the Supreme Court sitting En banc. In deciding this second challenge, the court voted 9-4 with two justices inhibiting in support of a decision that, "The Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) between the Republic of the Philippines and the United States, entered into on February 10, 1998, is UPHELD as constitutional,...". The decision continued, specifically relating to matters relevant to the Subic rape case, "... the Romulo-Kenney Agreements of December 19 and 22, 2006 are DECLARED not in accordance with the VFA, and respondent Secretary of Foreign Affairs is hereby ordered to forthwith negotiate with the United States representatives for the appropriate agreement on detention facilities under Philippine authorities as provided in Art. V, Sec. 10 of the VFA, pending which the status quo shall be maintained until further orders by this Court."[8] UP Professor Harry Roque, counsel for former senator Jovito Salonga, one of the petitioners in the case, said in a phone interview regarding the decision on the constitunality of the VFA. "We will appeal,... We are hoping we could convince the other justices to join the four dissenters."[9]

Mark Dizon (Facebook) said -

I've read a lot of in-depth analysis in that link about the real reason why Clinton was here in our country. Its really frustrating to watch how a prime time news program have twisted and modified the story just to show that the forum was issue-driven. Because in reality its just a mere publicity stunt and totally lacking in ... Read Moresubstance.

The immediate issue that needs to be addressed is the VFA. This is a very lopsided agreement in favor of the U.S. Let us be vigilant. They are wrong if they are thinking that we are just a bunch of dogs licking their feet.

Popoy wrote:

Be Fair...I cannot quote you co'z you're too wordy. But this is for you.
I know you mean well. Are you telling us you want the Philippines to be a fence sitter, an observer? Watch the U.S. gets clubbered and do nothing even an ounce of protest? Are you saying you only wanted Uncle Sam for the Philippines during happy times with his bag of goodies? Come on, man!

Popoy good post.

To you Be Fair! You don't know me. I'm a true blooded Filipino. But I do not agree with those radical people in PI who always demonstrate against the Americans for their personal agenda. Did you see them helping those typhoon victims? No. What we saw in the TV were young US soldiers, who would be happy in the comfort of their own homes like Miriam Santiago. Did you see Miriam Santiago visit them? NO. But she is critical of Clinton's going to visit the school that was devastated by the storm.

But my issues about the demonstrations of the radicals against the visit of Sec. Clinton are not overshadowed with my happiness and appreciation to those thousands of students and people who welcomed and were happy of the visit of Pres. Clinton. Their morale was uplifted and they thanked Sec. Clinton for early Christmas gift.

By the way, I fully agree that demonstration is an expression of democracy. But the demonstrators in PI are very rough and not peaceful compared to the Americans who usually demonstrate peacefully. One example is the thousands of TEA Party members and the recent Gay Rights who went to Washington DC. Very peaceful. They expressed their frustrtions through their banners.
I'm at peace now as the visit of Sec. Clinton to Manila was indeed very successful with the demonstrations of educated and adoring Filipino people.

As long as you argue without personal attacks, I don't have any problem. Just focus with the subject, no insults please.

The VFA is another topic. I leave that to the experts. Whatever is the results, I hope it will be for the good of the Filipino people.

Good day!

She is coming to show the people how to rake up the litter and burn it in a big pile.........

Be Fair - do you think it's all right for those demonstrators to burn the US Flags during the visit of Sec. Clinton? Also everytime those radical groups would rally against the renewal of the VFA, they burn flags and combatant against all Americans living in the Philippines.

What happens if there are radical US citizens who would want us all Filipinos to go back to PI?

When Pres. GMA was invited by Pres. Obama, the only demonstrators who burned the PI flag were as usual the radical Filipino group. I say radical because they burn flags. Did we see really blooded Americans burn Filipino flag?

If they don't agree on the renewal of VFA, then they should demonstrate peacefully. But believe me, if the VFA will be renewed, that will not be the end. These radical Filipino members do not know the meaning of "move on if you lose". The same with Miriam Santiago, always attacking the VFA, as well as ex Pres. Ramos.

For some intelligence was rationed....

Miriam always attacked Ex-pres Ramos, she can't move on. she's still bitter of losing the election during her time. hope she stop doing that instead face her present and future, do something constructive.

Rally is okay but lets do it in a peaceful manner and discuss it diplomatically.

VFA can be changed, it can be beneficial for both countries. Our country whether we want to admit it or not, needs USA support.

It will be nice if we can stand on our own for a change but its not going to happen at this time.

Gloria Arroyo, Et al. should be happy that they're going to get more money from the U.S.GOV ERNMENT FOR KISSING THEIR ASSESSSSSSSSSSSSS!

I guess u didnt read the excerpt well. First of all what did Israel have to do with this post. Even though it may have been copied it was out of context with the post. So i decided to comment on missles raining down on the cities in Israel. Think about that. What did Israel have to do with this post? Do they have troops in the Philippines? This war on terror is global. the VFA is something that ur people and government will tend to. And it seems all have missed the big picture. Truly, this war is global and it is going to gobble ur country up. Look at this mornings news from the northern part of mindanao. 23 dead at a logging co. And u know i will end my comments on this topic now because some r so blind. God bless the U.S.A God bless the Philippines

Jimbro, thanks to your intellectual input. Everybody is entitled to each opinion.

True. God bless the USA, Philippines and all people in Topix...

Hilary telling the filipino people to make sure the money U.S.GOV 'T. Going to give to the philippines government make sure is not going to the pocket of corrupt government officials. she should tell that to the FAKE president of cebu Gloria Arroyo! Because she's the one robbing the government coffer.

"The resolution asks the government to seek a renegotiation with the US on the 10-year-old agreement allowing the Philippines and the US to hold joint military exercises and other activities that include closer cooperation and coordination in military intelligence activities.

The resolution also demands the government terminate the pact altogether should Washington refuse to renegotiate the agreement. Only the president has the power to abrogate a treaty."

Renegotiate seems to have been lost from all the discussions so far in the thread. The Philippine Senate after perhaps finding time for due diligence have concluded that the present agreement is too one-sided, and it is time for a renegotiation. We can only benefit from it.

Re the other concerns expressed herein are for another thread.

Dont get so excited about the trip. Don't even assume her trip to PI is any more special or important than her trips to many different countries. Shes their to maintain political solidarity with USA as so stated in other topics. In my opinion. Regardless of every intention, she looks like she has affinity and good regards to filipinos in general. Maybe she knows when one buys something its no exchange no returns policy is the best policy.