Uighur Activist Kadeer Says China Forced Migration Policy Caused Riots

Shiro Hima wrote:

<quoted text>i'm waiting for your sister,stupid.

You son of bitch, either you debate with him or shut up, regardless of what the subject is.

You should not insult female member of your opponent's family. Do you understand you scum bag. How stupid and low you are?

InfoSharing wrote:

<quoted text>You son of bitch, either you debate with him or shut up, regardless of what the subject is.
You should not insult female member of your opponent's family. Do you understand you scum bag. How stupid and low you are?

i don't eat dogs like you chinese do,that's lower than low in my book.
go f_ck your sister 'cause i heard you do that too.

Shiro Hima wrote:

<quoted text>i don't eat dogs like you chinese do,that's lower than low in my book.
go f_ck your sister 'cause i heard you do that too.

What a low life! If you want to practise incest, no one will stop you. Why come to topix to brag about it, you son of bitch.

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
China doesn't deny the program. Why do you?
"The Chinese government has taken young Uighur women 16-25 and forcibly resettled them in China’s larger cities. China claims it was done to rearrange the internal labor market. In reality, it has reduced their chances of marrying Uighur men forcing them to marry Chinese men. It also forces many young women to abandon their culture and assimilate into Chinese culture."
You've got a twisted sense of humor.

What is your proof that "force" is being used?

old china wrote:

<quoted text>
What is your proof that "force" is being used?

Young women would leave their homes willingly?

Continued from the last posts:
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/china/T2RO9T...
and
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/china/T2RO9T...

Let’s continue to look at the “benefits” the Tibetans enjoy!

(This of course equally applies to the Uyghurs.)

Even thought Tibetans are supposed to be allowed more than one child, the reality is that in most of the TAR a strict one child policy is enforced, with second pregnancies compulsorily terminated.
Abortions are carried out till full term of nine months, where the baby is killed by injecting it with a poison which inevitably induces abortion.
Even if the mother manages to evade the attention of the Chinese authorities and gives birth to a healthy baby, it invariably is taken away and killed by the medical staff, and the mother is then told that the baby was still born, even though she could hear the baby’s first cry. Thus, infanticide is part of the population control of Tibetans by the Chinese.
Here is an account of one Tibetan Doctor who had her second pregnancy forcibly terminated:“First they insert a sort of flexible rubber tube with a pointed end into the cervix. There is no medicine in this. They leave this inside for 24 hours. Because it stimulates the birth canal, which opens up slowly and gives way to the flow of blood, a lot of bleeding starts after two hours. After one day they take it out. It has become bigger inside so it is easier for the knife to get inside. They insert an instrument which has a sort of long handle with a knife at the end. They put this inside and start t move it around, cutting the foetus in pieces…… The then has been reduced to small pieces and is removed by using a sort of compressor.……..Besides the lack of proper medical equipment to do that, I was not even given anaesthesia and thus experienced excruciating pain at the time. No words have the power to express the excruciating pain I experience during the operation. There was no medical treatment afterwards…. I do not know what has been damage inside me…My physical and mental well-being have been badly affected. After the abortion I was not well …… I had a period twice a month, sometimes for 15 days at a time…..
As a consequence of such crude and makeshift ‘medical’ procedures infections, long term excruciating pain and complications, irregular periods and bleeding etc. are the norm, and in many instances the woman dies as a result of such inept medical conduct, and in at least one report which came to light a woman ended up paralysed.

The Chinese operate mobile birth control units which visit every village and town. Everyone must attend or face a fine of equal up to five years salary. There Tibetan women are forcibly sterilized by the Chinese team, which, under a quota system with financial incentives, is highly motivated to enforce as many sterilisations as possible.

Economic sanctions against Tibetan women who have additional children include permanent demotions and the potential loss of employment for both parents, as well as fines from 500 to 3,000 yuan equating to 1 to 6 years salary.

‘Illegal’ children are denied legal papers which give them the right to identity, attend school, own property, travel, participate in legal work, or obtain a ration card.

“China” in the 21st century no less!!!

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
Young women would leave their homes willingly?

I don't know Monk. Give me the proof that I asked for and I'll be in a better position to reach an opinion on the matter. However, without "proof of force" then it just sounds like anti China rhetoric of the same kind which is designed to cause social unrest.

Like with everything in China, it is nigh impossible to do the research on such issues as the transfer of young females of marriageable and child bearing age to the east coast.
If you’re caught asking such questions on the spot you’re immediately expelled or charged with espionage and infringement of state secrets.
So we have to rely on eyewitness accounts from women and families with first hand experience.
Consistent accounts of these Uyghurs directly affected by this ‘program’ relate a story of intimidation and menacing coercion to take part in the ‘program’.
Some families report that they were told that if they didn’t ‘supply’ at least one young female they would be fined, and had other menacing threats made against them by police and authorities.

A voluntary program which needs coercion, to say the least, or rather intimidation and force of the most menacing kind?

The fact that the authorities target the most vulnerable members of society, females of the age 16 to 25 is in itself telling.
Further accounts tell of gross racism and sexual intimidation and exploitation at the hands of Han managers and co-workers once removed and far from their home, alone and vulnerable.
These young females are required to provide long term labour service to employers in east coast factories, and thus will be removed from their home for the most important part or their lives, the transition from child to adult and consequently motherhood.

Further, the fact that Chinese are given a 3,000 yuan stipend, read bribe, if they marry a Uyghur woman, and conversely Uyghur women are promised “better social benefits” if they marry a Han speak for itself.

All this provides a consistent picture of a program designed to minimize the possibility of intermarriage with their own kind, and hence the dilution and eventual elimination of their ethnicity.

Besides it is in fact enshrined Han CCP policy, as expounded by Li Dezhu in their policy document on ethnic minorities; to destroy the ethnic minorities and eliminate their culture, and with it the right to their land.

The record of the Han people is not one of benevolence towards other ethnicities; in fact quite the reverse is historical fact, one of wanton racism, exploitation and outright barbarism.

The mere fact that the minorities are denied their inalienable right to self determination as enshrined in the UN charter and signed up to by the Han nation provides enough proof that the Han CCP is all about itself, and its only constituency, the 1.2 billion Han people.

The Han race has, ever since they were subjugated by the Manchu’s for three centuries, cherished the dream of a grand Han nation, where the Han would occupy and rule over all the lands and people ever conquered by the Manchus and the Mongols in the distant past.

The 1911 revolution was all about the Han against the Manchu rulers and the overthrow of their grip on the Han people.
Only after the success of the uprising did Sun Yat’sen have a sudden realization that in order to continue the Manchu Empire and the occupation of all other ethnicities’ lands, they needed to make a hollow declaration to seek legitimacy in the eyes of the world.

So in a stroke of the most racist ‘ingenuity’ he declared the Han nation a ‘multiethnic nation’, including the Manchus, Mongols, the Uyghurs and the Tibetans; albeit where only the Han had any say and commanded all the power.

Under his watch as the first (provisional) president he oversaw an orgy of Manchu killing, a massacre borne out of the believe that the Han were the born rulers and the superior race to all others.
This racism is as ancient as it is modern, brutal reality today for all the subjugated races, the Uyghurs, the Mongols, the Tibetans and all the other ethnicities.

freedomone wrote:

Like with everything in China, it is nigh impossible to do the research on such issues as the transfer of young females of marriageable and child bearing age to the east coast.
If you’re caught asking such questions on the spot you’re immediately expelled or charged with espionage and infringement of state secrets.
So we have to rely on eyewitness accounts from women and families with first hand experience.
Consistent accounts of these Uyghurs directly affected by this ‘program’ relate a story of intimidation and menacing coercion to take part in the ‘program’.
Some families report that they were told that if they didn’t ‘supply’ at least one young female they would be fined, and had other menacing threats made against them by police and authorities.
A voluntary program which needs coercion, to say the least, or rather intimidation and force of the most menacing kind?
The fact that the authorities target the most vulnerable members of society, females of the age 16 to 25 is in itself telling.
Further accounts tell of gross racism and sexual intimidation and exploitation at the hands of Han managers and co-workers once removed and far from their home, alone and vulnerable.
These young females are required to provide long term labour service to employers in east coast factories, and thus will be removed from their home for the most important part or their lives, the transition from child to adult and consequently motherhood.
Further, the fact that Chinese are given a 3,000 yuan stipend, read bribe, if they marry a Uyghur woman, and conversely Uyghur women are promised “better social benefits” if they marry a Han speak for itself.
All this provides a consistent picture of a program designed to minimize the possibility of intermarriage with their own kind, and hence the dilution and eventual elimination of their ethnicity.
Besides it is in fact enshrined Han CCP policy, as expounded by Li Dezhu in their policy document on ethnic minorities; to destroy the ethnic minorities and eliminate their culture, and with it the right to their land.
The record of the Han people is not one of benevolence towards other ethnicities; in fact quite the reverse is historical fact, one of wanton racism, exploitation and outright barbarism.
The mere fact that the minorities are denied their inalienable right to self determination as enshrined in the UN charter and signed up to by the Han nation provides enough proof that the Han CCP is all about itself, and its only constituency, the 1.2 billion Han people.
The Han race has, ever since they were subjugated by the Manchu’s for three centuries, cherished the dream of a grand Han nation, where the Han would occupy and rule over all the lands and people ever conquered by the Manchus and the Mongols in the distant past.
The 1911 revolution was all about the Han against the Manchu rulers and the overthrow of their grip on the Han people.
Only after the success of the uprising did Sun Yat’sen have a sudden realization that in order to continue the Manchu Empire and the occupation of all other ethnicities’ lands, they needed to make a hollow declaration to seek legitimacy in the eyes of the world.
So in a stroke of the most racist ‘ingenuity’ he declared the Han nation a ‘multiethnic nation’, including the Manchus, Mongols, the Uyghurs and the Tibetans; albeit where only the Han had any say and commanded all the power.
Under his watch as the first (provisional) president he oversaw an orgy of Manchu killing, a massacre borne out of the believe that the Han were the born rulers and the superior race to all others.
This racism is as ancient as it is modern, brutal reality today for all the subjugated races, the Uyghurs, the Mongols, the Tibetans and all the other ethnicities.

Why don't you just write a book or even a whole series of them?

old china wrote:

<quoted text>
Why don't you just write a book or even a whole series of them?

Because writing a book requires money...and a chance to recouperate the money used to publish it, by other people buying and reading it...who the hell is going to pay good money to read his rubbish...? I don't even bother reading it when its free.

MajorMalfunction wrote:

<quoted text>
Because writing a book requires money...and a chance to recouperate the money used to publish it, by other people buying and reading it...who the hell is going to pay good money to read his rubbish...? I don't even bother reading it when its free.

I didn't expect anyone to read his books either apart from potential publishers. I can't even imagine a sympathiser reading it for more than 5 minutes. But it would have the advantage of getting rid of his spam for a time.

old china wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know Monk. Give me the proof that I asked for and I'll be in a better position to reach an opinion on the matter. However, without "proof of force" then it just sounds like anti China rhetoric of the same kind which is designed to cause social unrest.

It's not rhetoric that causes social unrest in China according to Zhou Tianyong, a researcher at the Central Party School in Beijing, writing in the China Economic Times.

"The redistribution of wealth through theft and robbery could dramatically increase and menaces to social stability will grow," Zhou Tianyong, a researcher at the Central Party School in Beijing, wrote in the China Economic Times.
"This is extremely likely to create a reactive situation of mass-scale social turmoil," he wrote."

Moving labor to where its needed must be a slippery slope for China. Some probably want to move, others don't want to move. How do you get them to
move whether they want to or not? Force? Pay them to move?

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
Moving labor to where its needed must be a slippery slope for China. Some probably want to move, others don't want to move. How do you get them to move whether they want to or not? Force? Pay them to move?

Moving labor? For what? There is no labor shortage as you have noted yourself that millions of Chinese migrant worker are unable to find job in the cities.

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
It's not rhetoric that causes social unrest in China according to Zhou Tianyong, a researcher at the Central Party School in Beijing, writing in the China Economic Times.
"The redistribution of wealth through theft and robbery could dramatically increase and menaces to social stability will grow," Zhou Tianyong, a researcher at the Central Party School in Beijing, wrote in the China Economic Times.
"This is extremely likely to create a reactive situation of mass-scale social turmoil," he wrote."
Moving labor to where its needed must be a slippery slope for China. Some probably want to move, others don't want to move. How do you get them to
move whether they want to or not? Force? Pay them to move?

I'm still waiting for you to PROVE that force had been used! How many thousands of them claiming "force"? Who has been forced and have their claims been independantly verified?

Try and understand my confusion Monk, it's a bit like the thosands of Uighurs who are alleged to have dissapeared. No evidence of them before they dissapeared or after. Where are the names of these people? Then there were the thousands of Tibetans supposidly killed, imprisoned etc but no proof. How can you expect rational people to accept the claims if there is no proof? I don't think even Amnesty International is supporting it and they've said a lot of negative things about China.

So are you falling for the propaganda or simply a parrot?

old china wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm still waiting for you to PROVE that force had been used! How many thousands of them claiming "force"? Who has been forced and have their claims been independantly verified?
I don't think even Amnesty International is supporting it and they've said a lot of negative things about China.
So are you falling for the propaganda or simply a parrot?

I found freedomones explanation compelling-

"So we have to rely on eyewitness accounts from women and families with first hand experience.
Consistent accounts of these Uyghurs directly affected by this ‘program’ relate a story of intimidation and menacing coercion to take part in the ‘program’.
Some families report that they were told that if they didn’t ‘supply’ at least one young female they would be fined, and had other menacing threats made against them by police and authorities.

A voluntary program which needs coercion, to say the least, or rather intimidation and force of the most menacing kind?

The fact that the authorities target the most vulnerable members of society, females of the age 16 to 25 is in itself telling.
Further accounts tell of gross racism and sexual intimidation and exploitation at the hands of Han managers and co-workers once removed and far from their home, alone and vulnerable.
These young females are required to provide long term labour service to employers in east coast factories, and thus will be removed from their home for the most important part or their lives, the transition from child to adult and consequently motherhood."

Did you miss this excellent information? Eye witness accounts.
Very poignant stories of forced cooperation. But you won't accept any western media except Global Research Canada- the most leftwing, radical
tabloid in the world.

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
I found freedomones explanation compelling-
"So we have to rely on eyewitness accounts from women and families with first hand experience.
Consistent accounts of these Uyghurs directly affected by this ‘program’ relate a story of intimidation and menacing coercion to take part in the ‘program’.
Some families report that they were told that if they didn’t ‘supply’ at least one young female they would be fined, and had other menacing threats made against them by police and authorities.
A voluntary program which needs coercion, to say the least, or rather intimidation and force of the most menacing kind?
The fact that the authorities target the most vulnerable members of society, females of the age 16 to 25 is in itself telling.
Further accounts tell of gross racism and sexual intimidation and exploitation at the hands of Han managers and co-workers once removed and far from their home, alone and vulnerable.
These young females are required to provide long term labour service to employers in east coast factories, and thus will be removed from their home for the most important part or their lives, the transition from child to adult and consequently motherhood."
Did you miss this excellent information? Eye witness accounts.
Very poignant stories of forced cooperation. But you won't accept any western media except Global Research Canada- the most leftwing, radical
tabloid in the world.

Nice try but not independantly verified even if it's true. Too much misinformation originates from seperatist movements to take their claims on face value.

Zsari wrote:

<quoted text>
Moving labor? For what? There is no labor shortage as you have noted yourself that millions of Chinese migrant worker are unable to find job in the cities.

Bloody topix! They cut the reply to this posts! Can someone tell me what Chans answer was?

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
I found freedomones explanation compelling-
"So we have to rely on eyewitness accounts from women and families with first hand experience.
Consistent accounts of these Uyghurs directly affected by this ‘program’ relate a story of intimidation and menacing coercion to take part in the ‘program’.
Some families report that they were told that if they didn’t ‘supply’ at least one young female they would be fined, and had other menacing threats made against them by police and authorities.
A voluntary program which needs coercion, to say the least, or rather intimidation and force of the most menacing kind?
The fact that the authorities target the most vulnerable members of society, females of the age 16 to 25 is in itself telling.
Further accounts tell of gross racism and sexual intimidation and exploitation at the hands of Han managers and co-workers once removed and far from their home, alone and vulnerable.
These young females are required to provide long term labour service to employers in east coast factories, and thus will be removed from their home for the most important part or their lives, the transition from child to adult and consequently motherhood."
Did you miss this excellent information? Eye witness accounts.
Very poignant stories of forced cooperation. But you won't accept any western media except Global Research Canada- the most leftwing, radical
tabloid in the world.

You're getting your info. from Freedomone, some Falun Gong anti-China nut?

Those women workers are from Kashgar area, the hot bed of the East Turkestan separatist movement in western Xinjiang. Kashgar is right on the border with Afghanistan, and is dirt poor. Remember, POVERTY is the fundamental cause for radical Islamic terrorism's growth world-wide.

The key purpose of this migration of workers is to reduce poverty in the Kashgar area, getting the locals to work their way out of their predicament. Also, these women will be exposed to the outside world along China's prosperous coast, thus becoming less likely to be influenced to the Taliban-types back home in Kashgar.

RayH wrote:

<quoted text>
You're getting your info. from Freedomone, some Falun Gong anti-China nut?
Those women workers are from Kashgar area, the hot bed of the East Turkestan separatist movement in western Xinjiang. Kashgar is right on the border with Afghanistan, and is dirt poor. Remember, POVERTY is the fundamental cause for radical Islamic terrorism's growth world-wide.
The key purpose of this migration of workers is to reduce poverty in the Kashgar area, getting the locals to work their way out of their predicament. Also, these women will be exposed to the outside world along China's prosperous coast, thus becoming less likely to be influenced to the Taliban-types back home in Kashgar.

That all makes sense to me Ray. Do they move willingly or are they coerced?

uncle fargo wrote:

<quoted text>Bloody topix! They cut the reply to this posts! Can someone tell me what Chans answer was?

His answer was- up yourass.