Where signs of God abound

She steps onto the altar? Unusual. In Episcopal churches, the altar is a table, not something to step on.

I wonder what the sign isfor "give me some money?.

In his pastoral letter to Timothy, Paul plainly states:“I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.”—1 Timothy 2:12.

Women do have the right to preach the Gospel, but not in the Congregation, that is the role of men who are taking the spiritual lead in the Congregation.

(1 Timothy 3:1-7). . .If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work. 2 The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3 not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money, 4 a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; 5 (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?) 6 not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up [with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil.

Scott wrote:

She steps onto the altar? Unusual. In Episcopal churches, the altar is a table, not something to step on.

I think the author meant sanctuary, which is sometimes separated from the rest of the church interior by an altar rail.

Martha wrote:

In his pastoral letter to Timothy, Paul plainly states:“I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.”—1 Timothy 2:12.
Women do have the right to preach the Gospel, but not in the Congregation, that is the role of men who are taking the spiritual lead in the Congregation.
(1 Timothy 3:1-7). . .If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work. 2 The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3 not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money, 4 a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; 5 (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?) 6 not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up [with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil.

So do you follow Paul, or Christ. Pick one or the other. Paul contridicted Christ many times.

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
So do you follow Paul, or Christ. Pick one or the other. Paul contridicted Christ many times.

Paul contradicted Rabbi Yeshua, Peter, and himself during his travels and pit stops.

The standard for a Christian to live by is God's word, because it was written by inspiration from God himself. God's word is the authority that a Christian has to defend his belief, Paul was an Apostle who had the authority to correct Peter's misconduct, Peter was wrong, on more than one occasion, he was a mortal man.

Martha wrote:

The standard for a Christian to live by is God's word, because it was written by inspiration from God himself. God's word is the authority that a Christian has to defend his belief, Paul was an Apostle who had the authority to correct Peter's misconduct, Peter was wrong, on more than one occasion, he was a mortal man.

The standard for a Christian is to live by CHRIST.
The standard for all PEOPLE OF THE BOOK is to love God and your neighbor.

James, brother of Jesus was the head of the early Church.

As far as the pagan Paul, he never met, worked with, heard the words of, witnessed the death and Resurrection of, or understood the teachings of Jesus.

He was kicked out of Jerusalem by the first followers of Jesus where he went on to add paganism at every turn, out right lied to win converts, changing what Jesus said........

Martha wrote:

The standard for a Christian to live by is God's word, because it was written by inspiration from God himself. God's word is the authority that a Christian has to defend his belief, Paul was an Apostle who had the authority to correct Peter's misconduct, Peter was wrong, on more than one occasion, he was a mortal man.

Pauls teachings actually contridicted Christs teachings many times.

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
Pauls teachings actually contridicted Christs teachings many times.

What teachings and where?

Chapter and verse, please.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
What teachings and where?
Chapter and verse, please.

Paul says:

1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
[10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.

Jesus says:

Matt.23

[9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Paul says:

1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless leaders in Christ ....

Jesus says:

Matt.23
[10] Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.

On remuneration for preaching the gospel:

Paul says:

1Tim.5
[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;
[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.
1Cor.9
[11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
[12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?

Jesus says:

Matt.10
[7] And preach as you go, saying,`The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.

Paul says:

Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.

Jesus says:

Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying,...`The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.

Paul says:

Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus says:

Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.

the serpent was right wrote:

Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
[10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.
Jesus says:
Matt.23
[9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven ....

Not even an evangelical fundamentalist would compare these verses so literally - Paul is correctly claiming that he led these people to Christ thru his missionary work, not that he was literally their father, or asked to be called "father".

the serpent was right wrote:

Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless leaders in Christ ....
Jesus says:
Matt.23
[10] Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.

Paul is not talking abt leaders or masters, but about teachers or guides; see 1 Cor 4:15.

the serpent was right wrote:

On remuneration for preaching the gospel:
Paul says:
1Tim.5
[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;
[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.
1Cor.9
[11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
[12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?
Jesus says:
Matt.10
[7] And preach as you go, saying,`The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.

Apples and oranges: Jesus' instructions to His disciples were specific regarding the lost sheep of Israel while avoidng Gentiles (Mat 10:5), but Paul's ministry was to those Gentiles.

the serpent was right wrote:

Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.
Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying,...`The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.

These verses have nothing in common: Jesus is referring to false prophets, Paul is exhorting the faithful to holy living.

the serpent was right wrote:

Paul says:
Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus says:
Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.

They both say to love your neighbor as yourself: where is the contradiction?

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
Not even an evangelical fundamentalist would compare these verses so literally - Paul is correctly claiming that he led these people to Christ thru his missionary work, not that he was literally their father, or asked to be called "father".
<quoted text>
Paul is not talking abt leaders or masters, but about teachers or guides; see 1 Cor 4:15.
<quoted text>
Apples and oranges: Jesus' instructions to His disciples were specific regarding the lost sheep of Israel while avoidng Gentiles (Mat 10:5), but Paul's ministry was to those Gentiles.
<quoted text>
These verses have nothing in common: Jesus is referring to false prophets, Paul is exhorting the faithful to holy living.
<quoted text>
They both say to love your neighbor as yourself: where is the contradiction?

I have always said...Christians are the greatest excuse makers in the world!!

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
I have always said...Christians are the greatest excuse makers in the world!!

So much for your false claims of Paul vs. Jesus: like your avatar, you post w/a "forked tongue".

You took disparate verses out of context to make them seem contradictory: a first year seminary student would see right thru this kind of deliberate error.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
So much for your false claims of Paul vs. Jesus: like your avatar, you post w/a "forked tongue".
You took disparate verses out of context to make them seem contradictory: a first year seminary student would see right thru this kind of deliberate error.

My quotes are fine. If it takes a seminary student to find fault with them, it renforces my conviction that Paul contridicted Jesus.
I can also give you proof that Jesus was a liar, and that the serpent was indeed right, but you would reinvent the verses to reach your preconcieved conclusion. Do you know why?

Christians are the greatest excuse makers in the world.

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
My quotes are fine. If it takes a seminary student to find fault with them, it renforces my conviction that Paul contridicted Jesus.
I can also give you proof that Jesus was a liar, and that the serpent was indeed right ...

The only liar here is you and your slithering "inspiration": we've already seen your amusing "proof" abt Paul contradicting Jesus, so don't waste any more of this forum's time w/your tall tales.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
So much for your false claims of Paul vs. Jesus: like your avatar, you post w/a "forked tongue".
You took disparate verses out of context to make them seem contradictory: a first year seminary student would see right thru this kind of deliberate error.

Good Job above Joe! It doesn't even take a first year seminary student to debunk these comparisons. A 5th grade Sunday Schooler could do well against this attack.

Peace,
TA

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
The only liar here is you and your slithering "inspiration": we've already seen your amusing "proof" abt Paul contradicting Jesus, so don't waste any more of this forum's time w/your tall tales.

It does not surprise me that you deny the obvious. It also is no surprise that you don't want to see more, because, what happens if you run out of excuses????

Who am I kidding??? You fundies never run out of excuses.

Remember: The serpent WAS right, and Jesus lied through his teeth. You can close your eyes, and stick your fingers in your ears, but I will continue to show people the light, and free them of the mythology of Christianity. I bet I have helped more folks become atheist, than you have turned Christian.

Think Again wrote:

<quoted text>
Good Job above Joe! It doesn't even take a first year seminary student to debunk these comparisons. A 5th grade Sunday Schooler could do well against this attack.
Peace,
TA

Of course, there is one little problem with your "logic". His rebuttal is simply a matter of "you don't understand". It doesn't work real well when it is printed in black and white. If your agenda is to believe, than you will believe no matter what. Those who are honest with themselves, and aren't afraid of the truth, see that the Bible is a collection of stories, and shouldn't be taken seriously. You myth worshippers live in fear, and need the crutch of religion to get you through. Remember, if you had been born in India, you would think cows are sacred, and would think Jesus ia a joke, because that's what you would have been taught from childhood, just like you were taught that Jesus is your saviour, and cows are for eating.

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
It does not surprise me that you deny the obvious ...

The only thing obvious here is you.

Stop wasting our time w/your lies.