Politics, Not Religion, At Heart of Health Care Reform Wrangle on Abortion

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Rick wrote:

The health care package is nothing but government control over our lives. Who ever heard of a health care plan that fines you for not signing up. Its just another step towards a dictatorship. Obama is no different than Bush. Obama is just a slick talking Bush with a smile. He has lied about everthing, like ending the wars. He is just another freemason, like Lenin, Stalin and Hitler.
The Obama health care plan is like the poison floride in our water.
Q. What is floride used for besides teeth.
A. Rat poison and an intelligence reducer.
Q. Who were the first people to use floride in water.
A. Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hiter in the concentration camps. It makes the prisoners more manageble.

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ccrider wrote:

Rick is right about healthcare being about control. Pelosi is so determined to push this thing through; I think every member of Congress should be given the time to actually READ the bill before it's voted on. This is socialism incorporated.
Fining by the government if you don't have health insurance; that is NUTS. I thought it was pretty pushy of the governments to require insurance on cars before you can license them. Then they make it a law to wear your seatbelt. Seat belts may save lives, but should the gov. be telling us what to do?

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ccrider wrote:

SongBookz wrote: "
Health, is not a privilege - well, it is now - a privilege reserved only for those who can afford it, but shouldn't be (and stands contrary to Jesus' teaching in scripture).
With thousands of people dying each year due to their inability to obtain medical insurance or pay for treatment, it is hypocritical of so-called "pro-life" people to hold these people's lives hostage over abortion. It underlines the point often, legitimately, made that "pro-lifers" only care about fetuses' lives, but their concern for life ends with a baby's birth. """"" """"
Healthcare is too expensive, I agree. However, the government requiring us to have it or expect a fine and/or jail time? I agree with you that this is not the answer.
There are alternatives to traditional healthcare insurance. I know of at least one Christian organization where CHristians take care of other Christian's healthcare costs. If this mandatory (with fines) bill passes, then this organization may have to stop functioning. It is not right for the government to cause this to happen; it is not right for the government to have this much power.
Also, there is the issue that many people EXPECT the government to take care of them. Is this really the government's responsibility? Perhaps churches and families should be the first to help people.
Healthcare for everybody would be great IF......(1) there were no waiting lists (2) the elderly would not be shunned because the "don't have much time left" (3) it would NOT give the government control over the people (4) if could be economically paid for and stay in the black all the time. This country is already so far in debt that it's pitiful. The "man of change" surely has changed things.....the national debt has skyrocketed and we have 10.2% unemployment to show for it.....the highest in 26 years.

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ccrider wrote:

SongBookz wrote: "
Health, is not a privilege - well, it is now - a privilege reserved only for those who can afford it, but shouldn't be (and stands contrary to Jesus' teaching in scripture).
With thousands of people dying each year due to their inability to obtain medical insurance or pay for treatment, it is hypocritical of so-called "pro-life" people to hold these people's lives hostage over abortion. It underlines the point often, legitimately, made that "pro-lifers" only care about fetuses' lives, but their concern for life ends with a baby's birth. """"" """"
Healthcare is too expensive, I agree. However, the government requiring us to have it or expect a fine and/or jail time? I agree with you that this is not the answer.
There are alternatives to traditional healthcare insurance. I know of at least one Christian organization where CHristians take care of other Christian's healthcare costs. If this mandatory (with fines) bill passes, then this organization may have to stop functioning. It is not right for the government to cause this to happen; it is not right for the government to have this much power.
Also, there is the issue that many people EXPECT the government to take care of them. Is this really the government's responsibility? Perhaps churches and families should be the first to help people.
Healthcare for everybody would be great IF......(1) there were no waiting lists (2) the elderly would not be shunned because the "don't have much time left" (3) it would NOT give the government control over the people (4) if could be economically paid for and stay in the black all the time. This country is already so far in debt that it's pitiful. The "man of change" surely has changed things.....the national debt has skyrocketed and we have 10.2% unemployment to show for it.....the highest in 26 years.

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ace88 wrote:

Now I'am christian and I belive everyone that needs health care should be able to get it.I think Jesus said something about the poor. Now what was it?

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SongBookz wrote:

<quoted text>
You raise a lot of issues, let me try to address some of them.
1. You example of the Church gathering together to meet each others health care expenses is a perfect example of Socialism - which is understandable - Socialism is closest example of the early church (first couple chapters of Acts)- and is to be commended.
2. I am against health insurance - it adds nothing to health care except cost - and should be banned as a ponzi scheme. Not having insurance companies to pay the bill would lower health care costs because hospitals would have to be competitive and charge what their customers can pay - or go out of business. Health insurance, itself, is actually a form of corporate Socialism where the policy holders pool their health dollars while the corporation handles the money and takes a hefty cut for themselves.
It is proper to rely on government to help with things that individuals cannot do themselves - roads, bridges, libraries, a military, snow removal in the North, hurricane cleanup in the South, etc. Having gov't run health insurance would replace gov't overhead with the current usurious corporate overhead but, at least, citizens, through their elected Representatives would have a voice.
No one but the Republicans are talking about denying the elderly health care - it would be political suicide - the whole death panel thing was an attempt by the insurance companies to thwart reform.
Historically, it is Republicans who increase the deficit. From 1946 to today, Democrat have presidents pushed the deficit up by 3.2 percent per year. Republican presidents, on the other hand, increased the budget deficit by 9.7 percent. Over 86% of the current deficit was inherited from previous administrations.
Don't get me wrong, Obama may be better than Bush, but there are a lot of things I don't like about him either. As a Christian, I know that no human gov't will ever be perfect, we, rather, await the Kingdom of God, but, in the meantime, we ask the best that our gov't can do.

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
All I can say is thank God that they took the "floride" out of the water and replaced it with flouride.
Makes my teeth more "manageble".

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Dell Russell wrote:

Would someone show me something that the GOVERNMENT has fixed and not cost a b'zillion dollars more than they said it would.
I'm a Christian and I'm about tired of Christianity being compared to Communism and Socialism as if it were a good thing. True Christianity does not point a gun at you and force you to give up your rights and money.
Folks you had better wake up before its too late!

Rick wrote:

The health care package is nothing but government control over our lives. Who ever heard of a health care plan that fines you for not signing up.

ccrider wrote:

This is socialism incorporated.

Light Sensitive wrote:

funny how most americans scream that the govt doesnt act fast enough, katrina, financial crisis, unemployment benefits,- geesus the list is so long Im actually stumped at the moment...
and while I know this current bill is poorly written Like most bills we've seen of late (Patriot act comes to mind)- I wonder how many of those complianing about it the loudest are actually doing it out of a real understanding of the stakes, of what it says, and are not just knee-jerking it because its all part of the distrust in govt that the GOP has been selling -(but trust them when it comes to invading other nations, thats all good - current bill is about 270 billion spent on Iraq and Afghanistan and climbing!)
how many of us are taking the time to write a well-thought out letter to any of our elected officials...?(I just forced myself to sit down and do it)
or are we pulling the apathey card and just whining about it all...???
are you agaisnt it because its a really bad idea ? or rather because its a mostly Dem initiative with the added bonus of the racial flavoring...?