Thousands of dead fish wash up in Puerto Rico

Latuya wrote:

How soon will the environmentalists start blaming the evil oil companies for the dead fish?

Factchecker wrote:

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It's not the oil. The fish kills have been going on for years. It's the untreated sewage running into the lagoon.
Go up and down the coast of Puerto Rico. It's easy to see the discharges of sewage from the coastal towns. Check out the public beaches that are closed repeatedly because of sewage in the water. They are reported by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources to keep swimmers out of the water.

Latuya wrote:

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Are you really checking your facts? This article states, the San Juan Estuary Program official reason for the fish kill is poor water circulation. Don't you think an illegal raw sewage spill would have been big news especially after a previous fish kill 18 months ago in the same area?
Poor circulation promotes algae growth which depletes water oxygen levels. Maybe your name should be Presumption instead of Factchecker.

Factchecker wrote:

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I'm reporting as an eyewitness and from local Puerto Rican news as I stated, not from "California."
What causes an algae bloom? Not enough circulation? Too much fertilizer, as in RAW SEWAGE. These coastal fish kills happen all over Puerto Rico, not just in THIS lagoon.
Maybe you should check YOUR facts!

Latuya wrote:

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Speculation and conspiracy theories are a favorite tool of radical environmentalists that seek to attack Puerto Rico businesses and I find your initial comment playing right into their hands. I also include greedy lawyers in this group. Furthermore such a cover up would be costly to the government therefore does not make sense politically, ecenomically or in any other way.

Latuya wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you really checking your facts? This article states, the San Juan Estuary Program official reason for the fish kill is poor water circulation. Don't you think an illegal raw sewage spill would have been big news especially after a previous fish kill 18 months ago in the same area?
Poor circulation promotes algae growth which depletes water oxygen levels. Maybe your name should be Presumption instead of Factchecker.

Latuya wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you really checking your facts? This article states, the San Juan Estuary Program official reason for the fish kill is poor water circulation. Don't you think an illegal raw sewage spill would have been big news especially after a previous fish kill 18 months ago in the same area?
Poor circulation promotes algae growth which depletes water oxygen levels. Maybe your name should be Presumption instead of Factchecker.

NOT REALLY wrote:

The link below also demonstrates the fecal bacterial problem that the state of New Jersey is dealing with yearly. The New Jersey beaches are amond the most frequented nationally.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/nj_b...
I live very close to the Chesapeake Bay, which is a large body of water on the east coast surrounded by the states of Maryland and Virginia. It is highly polluted and has over the years had its share of fish kills due to the high levels of pollution.
http://www.somdnews.com/stories/07102009/rect...
My In-laws live near Lake Champlain in upstate New York. The area is pristine and the Lake is bordered by the largest forrest reserve on the east coast, the Adirondack State Park. Yet, the lake is highly polluted and residents are advised not to eat any of the fish from the lake.
My point is this: The U.S. has similar pollution problems in all 50 states, yet some folks on this blog want to put Puerto Rico on a higher plane of culpability on this and other issues as a way of expressing their intollerance. It smacks of hypocrisy.

PRJester wrote:

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This isn't a blog. It's a forum. Moreover, it's a Puerto Rico forum, not a New Jersey one. I lived in New Jersey for the 30-some years prior to our moving to Puerto Rico. While your comments regarding pollution in New Jersey are accurate, they aren't really germane, or applicable to the topic of this forum thread.
"Higher plane of culpability"? No, I don't really think so. These fish didn't wash up on New Jersey beaches; they washed up on ours. I doubt that anyone participating in this thread (with you being the possible exception) cares what washes up on NJ beaches, unless they happen to be vacationing there. I'm not interested in what parties are responsible for the NJ problem, nor am I interested in what steps need to be taken to address it. I AM interested in what parties are responsible for the PR problem, and I AM I interested in what steps need to be taken to address it. I no longer live in NJ. I live here.
That's not hypocrisy. That's focus. I lived in New Jersey by choice; I live in Puerto Rico by choice. New Jersey has many problems. When I lived there, I discussed those problems freely and frequently. Puerto Rico has some of the same problems as New Jersey. New Jersey has some problems that Puerto Rico doesn't; Puerto Rico has some problems that New Jersey doesn't. Without discussion, without public outcry, problems that government should be able to circumvent or eliminate often persist.
I've lived here for quite some time. The Puerto Ricans that I've encountered, both here and on Topix, seem to fall into three categories: those who openly acknowledge that problems exist here in spite of obvious solutions to them; those who acknowledge that problems exist, but seek to blame either the PPD or the PNP for ALL of them; and those to whom the suggestion of a problem amounts to an insult against the island.
When you think about it, all Americans fall into those three categories, wouldn't you say? Those who openly acknowledge that problems exist in the U.S., despite obvious solutions to them; those who acknowledge that problems exist, but seek to blame either the Republican or the Democratic party for ALL of them; and those to whom the suggestion of a problem amounts to an insult against the country. There really is no "higher plane of culpability". It's all a matter of geography. And focus.

NOT REALLY wrote:

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Your comments are off base, lacking understanding of the bigger picture,as in "not seeing the forrest for the trees". Puerto Rico's problems are a microcosm of what is happening in the continental U.S. and the world. So my comments regarding pollution in NJ and the continental U.S. are applicable in a larger context. Environmental problems and otherwise are more apparent in PR because it is an island with a burgeoning population, a narrowly defined area and limits to growth.
Many of those who are making comments and criticizing Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans for such problems live in the continental U.S. They are good at ignoring such issues in the U.S. in general and in their "backyards", but magnify them when they occur in PR. That is my contention. Puerto Rico is a part of the U.S. just like any other state and is subject to Federal jurisdiction. All of the federal agencies operate there including the EPA. Pollution is a world-wide problem and the U.S. is not immune and PR as part of the greater nation is also not immune. My comments in no way condone any of the problems in PR, including pollution. Americans are good at ignoring their own problems, but magnify those of other nations and this is the case regarding comments relegated to PR. That is my point.
I care what washes up on NJ beaches, PR beaches and the problem of international pollution. Your comments about not caring are selfish and typical American rhetoric; "If it's not in my backyard I can care less." If you don't get my contention, ignore it and move on.

PRJester wrote:

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Perhaps my comments were poorly worded. I CARE what washes up on the beach in NJ, México and Korea, just not nearly as much as I care about what washes up on a beach in Puerto Rico, even though I have previously lived in those places. Better? I'm not going to develop health problems from swimming in the waters off the coast of Korea, because I no longer do that.
As far as your "typical American rhetoric" comment, gimme a break. You don't know me from Adam. I am hardly a "typical American". Are you? Aren't you?
"Pollution is a world-wide problem and the U.S. is not immune and PR as part of the greater nation is also not immune." I agree, not that it's relevant. The pollution happening here is not part of a global problem; it's a local problem. You state that "All of the federal agencies operate there including the EPA." FOr me, it would be "All of the federal agencies operate HERE including the EPA.". I'm HERE. You're not. Spare me the sermon. Are you inferring that we pollute our waters because the EPA allows it? We have no choice in the matter, no control over our own fate? Is local government powerless to prevent the dumping of untreated sewage into our waters?
Let me ask you this.What are YOUR criticisms regarding Puerto Rico? What problems d o YOU think exist on the island, that we should be working to address?

NOT REALLY wrote:

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"Are you inferring that we pollute our waters because the EPA allows it? We have no choice in the matter, no control over our own fate? Is local government powerless to prevent the dumping of untreated sewage into our waters?" I inferred nothing of the kind. You still don't understand my stance about outsiders holding PR to a higher level than their respective governmental authorities. I make that statement based on the comments they have made. You are clearly over-thinking the matter.
"What are YOUR criticisms regarding Puerto Rico? What problems d o (sic) YOU think exist on the island, that we should be working to address?" Puerto Rico has a lot of problems: political, educational, economic, and social. I am keenly aware of them because I keep close tabs on what is happening on the island. I refuse to get drawn into discussions about island politics. This discussion is not centered on your questions and I am not getting drawn a larger debate with you.

PRJester wrote:

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I am NOT an "outsider". To whom do you refer?
I have no interest in a larger debate with you, or a smaller one. My posts were made because you seem somewhat overly defensive, when I see no need for it. So far, you're playing dodgeball.

NOT REALLY wrote:

Fish kills happen routinely in the continental United States. Pollution is still a major problem. The beaches all along the eastern seaboard, particularly in New Jersey (as I am personally aware) regularly take fecal bateria counts at their popular beaches. Beach
closings due to high fecal contamination is routine.
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/nationa...