Clergy's role grows in immigration reform discussion

As more than 2,500 immigrants rallied at the Capitol in support of comprehensive immigration reform, Methodist Bishop Minerva Carcano of Arizona told the crowd it could count on her and other religious leaders for support.

[shine4me]

What a surprise!!! Religion steps up to the plate once again for the underdog's fight. Big F'n deal. It really hasn't done much for the gays though. Religion chooses to make their own laws when it suits their agenda. What a shame.

[Who Cares]

We've said NO on more than one occassion
and we're prepared to say NO, NO WAY again.

[Rebel]

Separation of Church and State?

They want to get involved in this, they'd best start paying up in taxes. They can't have it both ways.

[Jose]

shine4me wrote:

What a surprise!!! Religion steps up to the plate once again for the underdog's fight. Big F'n deal. It really hasn't done much for the gays though. Religion chooses to make their own laws when it suits their agenda. What a shame.

Stuff it gringo! Religion always cares about the poor and exploited!

[shine4me]

Who Cares wrote:

We've said NO on more than one occassion
and we're prepared to say NO, NO WAY again.

I'm with you!!!

[Rebel]

Jose wrote:

<quoted text> Stuff it gringo! Religion always cares about the poor and exploited!

Well, good, because you have lots of Churches in your mother country. Let them take care of you there. Law breakers are not exploited by anyone but themselves.

[shine4me]

Rebel wrote:

Separation of Church and State?
They want to get involved in this, they'd best start paying up in taxes. They can't have it both ways.

The prob is that their money is no good. They are supposed to be "charitable" organizations. Where the hell are they getting their F'n money to support their crusade? I smell a "Judas" (sp?) amongst those who are supposed to abide by the Bible's teachings. Thou shalt not steal!!! Any organization that supports theives is definitely barking up the wrong tree.

[shine4me]

Jose wrote:

<quoted text> Stuff it gringo! Religion always cares about the poor and exploited!

That's all good...the poor - the exploited - obviously the criminal and the ignorant. I believe in defending myself and my family. If you are a threat to MY survival, religion will not save you.

[Ozzie_Guillen]

I'm sure nobody wanted amnesty in '86. Didn't stop it from happening, did it.

[Rebel]

Ozzie_Guillen wrote:

I'm sure nobody wanted amnesty in '86. Didn't stop it from happening, did it.

No one had been through such a large amnesty, and no one knew the *real* consequences and costs of it. Thus, while I'm sure there were some who were against it, most weren't.

Now, way more are against rewarding law breakers, as the costs are astronomical and we're still paying for the 1986 amnesty.

No Shamnesty!

[Renee]

I really agree with this. I think that everyone should have the chance. If you don't know what the situation is many people should say anything. Alot of people don't know what these people endure in other countries. Alot of immigrants are here just to work to take care of their families. Many people don't have 2 choices, let their families die or come over here work to get money to support their families. What would you do. Maybe its wrong to come but the ones that are here and have not got into any trouble and did what they suppose to do should be forgiven and given a second chance. Thank God for the church standing up. I am behind them and will support them.

[Rebel]

Renee wrote:

I really agree with this. I think that everyone should have the chance. If you don't know what the situation is many people should say anything. Alot of people don't know what these people endure in other countries. Alot of immigrants are here just to work to take care of their families. Many people don't have 2 choices, let their families die or come over here work to get money to support their families. What would you do. Maybe its wrong to come but the ones that are here and have not got into any trouble and did what they suppose to do should be forgiven and given a second chance. Thank God for the church standing up. I am behind them and will support them.

Ummm...here's a novel idea: If you're already having trouble supporting yourself, DON'T BRING CHILDREN INTO THE MESS. Gee, what a concept, huh?

People must take responsibility for their actions (and inactions), as well as accept the consequences of same. Breaking the law is never a good idea, nor is there a good reason for it.

Those working under the table are breaking the law by doing so and not paying taxes. Those working a W-2 job are using a social security number that does not belong to them, which is a felony. Felons don't qualify to come here, nor do we reward committing felonies with citizenship. Just like a drug dealer gets his money (ill gotten gains) taken away, as well as things purchased with said money, so should an illegal who is working during the commission of a felony. There are no special rules for illegal scum*bags, nor should there be two sets of laws.

Get over it. We gave amnesty in 1986. It didn't work, and we're still paying for it. Low/no educated people will NEVER give more than they'll take (from this country), and we just plain cannot afford it.

[shine4me]

Ozzie_Guillen wrote:

I'm sure nobody wanted amnesty in '86. Didn't stop it from happening, did it.

Alot has changed since '86. I don't believe that this Administration will get away with destroying our sovereignty any longer.

[Rebel]

Renee wrote:

I really agree with this. I think that everyone should have the chance. If you don't know what the situation is many people should say anything. Alot of people don't know what these people endure in other countries. Alot of immigrants are here just to work to take care of their families. Many people don't have 2 choices, let their families die or come over here work to get money to support their families. What would you do. Maybe its wrong to come but the ones that are here and have not got into any trouble and did what they suppose to do should be forgiven and given a second chance. Thank God for the church standing up. I am behind them and will support them.

The vast majority of illegal aliens in the United States have immigrated for the purpose of having a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty. These are good goals and motivations. However, these reasons do not give a person the right to break a law. Those seeking to immigrate to the United States (or any other country), should obey the immigration laws of that country. While this will cause delays and frustrations, again, these reasons do not give a person the right to break a law.

Romans 13:1-7 states:“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

That passage makes it abundantly clear. We are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything - paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, showing respect, etc. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the Apostle Paul wrote Romans 13:1-7, he was under the government of Rome, during the reign of Nero, perhaps that most evil of all the Roman Emperors. Paul still recognized that government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

Romans 13:1-7 makes it abundantly clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The ONLY exception to this is when a law of the government forces you to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29). Illegal immigration is the breaking of a governmental law. There is nothing in Scripture that would contradict with obeying immigration laws. Therefore, it is a sin, rebellion against God, to illegally immigrate into another country. Romans 13:1-7 also gives the government the authority to punish lawbreakers, whether it be by deportation or imprisonment (in the cases of illegal immigration), or more severe penalties for greater crimes.

[Rebel]

Renee wrote:

I really agree with this. I think that everyone should have the chance. If you don't know what the situation is many people should say anything. Alot of people don't know what these people endure in other countries. Alot of immigrants are here just to work to take care of their families. Many people don't have 2 choices, let their families die or come over here work to get money to support their families. What would you do. Maybe its wrong to come but the ones that are here and have not got into any trouble and did what they suppose to do should be forgiven and given a second chance. Thank God for the church standing up. I am behind them and will support them.

Everyone should have a chance? AT WHOSE EXPENSE?

These illegals are bleeding us dry....HAVE bled us dry. We cannot afford it any longer!

Americans need a chance -- IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!

It is not fair, kind or compassionate that our government gives away what Americans have worked hard for. What's "fair" about millions of illegal aliens obtaining citizenship through shamnesty, while many law-abiding immigrants (waiting to come th right way) get shoved to the back of the line? How does that give the law-abiding ones a CHANCE? What's "kind" about millions of Americans suffering from the break-down of their Country because of Corporate America and all of these "special interest" groups who aid and abet illegal aliens? What's "compassionate" about the millions of Americans who are out of work, on the streets, and fighting for their childrens' future, while millions of illegal immigrants squeeze the life out of our resources? What kind of chance does this give to citizens and legal immigrants?

Hmmm??? Or do you only think of the law breaking illegals?

Thanks to Lou Dobbs, we have the truth out in the open now and we have the criminals exposed. For too long I have walked around thinking that all this chaos was my imagination. This Government owes the Americans of the United States the fairness, kindness, and compassion.

[Rebel]

Renee wrote:

I really agree with this. I think that everyone should have the chance. If you don't know what the situation is many people should say anything. Alot of people don't know what these people endure in other countries. Alot of immigrants are here just to work to take care of their families. Many people don't have 2 choices, let their families die or come over here work to get money to support their families. What would you do. Maybe its wrong to come but the ones that are here and have not got into any trouble and did what they suppose to do should be forgiven and given a second chance. Thank God for the church standing up. I am behind them and will support them.

Why, exactly, do you think WE should be responsible for supporting the mistakes of others?

Do you not realize we have enough homegrown people to support? We don't need to support foreigners (nor can we afford to), and especially not those who break our laws! That's unconscionable, and ridiculous for you to suggest such a thing.

We send foreign aid. Let their governements take care of things.

And, if POOR is the criteria for being allowed to come here -- illegally or otherwise -- then MEXICO DOES NOT QUALIFY. They are not a poor country, and they have some of the richest people in the world there! There are far poorer countries in Africa.

Thus, if Poor is the criteria, the illegal Mexicans need to go home and we'll bring over Africans to take their place. Those countries truly ARE poor.

Next!

[Jose]

shine4me wrote:

<quoted text>
That's all good...the poor - the exploited - obviously the criminal and the ignorant. I believe in defending myself and my family. If you are a threat to MY survival, religion will not save you.

And what will save you in the next life gringo?

[Jose]

Renee wrote:

I really agree with this. I think that everyone should have the chance. If you don't know what the situation is many people should say anything. Alot of people don't know what these people endure in other countries. Alot of immigrants are here just to work to take care of their families. Many people don't have 2 choices, let their families die or come over here work to get money to support their families. What would you do. Maybe its wrong to come but the ones that are here and have not got into any trouble and did what they suppose to do should be forgiven and given a second chance. Thank God for the church standing up. I am behind them and will support them.

Thank you amigo!

[WMDiscussion]

The churches, just like the politicians, are in it for the money...period. They don't give a rat's ass about being compassionate towards the foolish illegals. Compassion doesn't build those massive buildings for which the preachers have a penchant. The bigger the church, the more money and notoriety, thus even more money.

[Corbin Dallas]

Seperation of church and state