Methane's Role In Global Warming Underestimated

Greenhouse gas calculations blame carbon dioxide too much for global warming, and methane too little, suggest researchers Thursday.

[Earthling]

It was only a matter of time before someone came up with the idea that methane is the real culprit, mainly because the argument for Co2 has become too weak and warmist alarmists need a new crutch to lean on.

[Fair Game]

Earthling wrote:

It was only a matter of time before someone came up with the idea that methane is the real culprit, mainly because the argument for Co2 has become too weak and warmist alarmists need a new crutch to lean on.

As you obviously haven't bothered to actually read the article, let me state what it says:

Anthropogenic CO2 *and* methane play a role in global warming, and we need to cut emissions of both.

Really, why do you bother? Isn't there a forum you could contribute to where you do have a clue about the subject?

[Brian_G]

Another error in AGW theory? Underestimate methane, overestimate CO2? The theory has no experimental tests, no wonder it's riddled with mistakes.

[Earthling]

Fair Game wrote:

As you obviously haven't bothered to actually read the article, let me state what it says:

I did read the article, and if you stop to consider the first sentence:

Greenhouse gas calculations blame carbon dioxide too much for global warming, and methane too little, suggest researchers Thursday.

You can see that someone has decided it's time to lay the blame on another gas to back up the wacky Co2 theory that's losing ground by the day.

[tina anne]

Another case of start with the results and then work backwards to make the math fit. The one thing I noticed is they have to go out in the middle of nowhere to find increases in methane. Which would make sense if for no other reason for the same way to look for the largest concentrations of CO2 you would look in the middle of a major population center.

[albedodown]

Earthling wrote:
.......the argument for Co2 has become too weak........
==========
Fair Game wrote:
Isn't there a forum you could contribute to where you do have a clue about the subject?
==========
litesong wrote:
..........No, there isn't.

[Adrian in Tacoma]

With all the methane ice in the seafloor, and thawing tundra - shant be long since we go thru these cycles per 100k yrs on average...

[litesong]

Brian_G wrote:

Underestimate methane, overestimate CO2? The theory has no experimental tests, no wonder it's riddled with mistakes.

brian_g has no experimental test beyond high school. He is riddled with alleged threats, alleged stalking, intimidations, & gathering like-minded (but empty-headed) personages of despicable demeanor with emphasis on 'de mean'.

[frank miller]

Methane {CH4} is very quickly converted to carbon dioxide {CO2} and water by the photochemical reaction of sunlight photons, and ozone in the atmosphere! ie. O3 + H2O....[hv]..2 *OH + O2
and *OH + RH {CH4}....[O2]..RO*2 {CO2}+ H2O!!
The real poblem as I mentioned numerous times, and which the "cash for clunkers" program was designed to do both in Europe in January 2009, and here in the U.S. in July/August 2009 was to reduce the high molecular weight[>{CH4}n=1000 oil fumes
unburnt hydrocarbons coming out of tailpipes,
and more specifically from old cars, trucks without the crankcase recirculating fumes PCV, valves, oxidized by air pumps, oxygen sensors
lean/hot running controls, especially in U.S. States, and foreign countries which don't have
California's bi-annual smog certification checks!
These heavy fumes, ie. particularly diesel are persistent and do not get photochemically oxidized,
hence haze offshored wind carried to often inversioned air masses against mountain ranges!
They also coat leaves of trees above the
city heights, altering the CO2/heat photosynthesis
absorption, and oxygen/cooling water vapor bi-products causing trees to damage prematurely!
F.M.

[frank miller]

Correction to my #9 post:"...hence haze onshored
wind carried.."
F.M.

[tina anne]

litesong wrote:

<quoted text>
brian_g has no experimental test beyond high school. He is riddled with alleged threats, alleged stalking, intimidations, & gathering like-minded (but empty-headed) personages of despicable demeanor with emphasis on 'de mean'.

So when are you going to provide at least that much. So far all you have been doing is moaning about some things he has said. Don't you have any more or is that it?

[frank miller]

Continuation of my #9/#10 post: The carbon dioxide
from the photochemical oxidation of gaseous methane
{CH4} natural gas, to CO2 and water then form hydrated carbon dioxide {0.10%-2.8% absolute atmospheric humidity} carbonic acid {H2CO3} which is photosynthesis reabsorbed by plants, but slower because of the 1,000,000 acres/month worldwide
Deforestation for the last 400 years; AND reprecipitated by rains, snows, blizzards, tropical daily rains/monsoons, typhoons, fogs,
etc.. to Earth lands {limestones}, and alkaline earth metals Ca++, Mg++ buffered water soluble bicarbonates in oceans, and waterways! Of course
just like we have 4ppm. of free oxygen {O2} in waters for fish to breathe, we also have 4ppm.
free uncombined CO2 in waterways, along with the
0.15 per cent combined CO2 as HCO3-metal salts in oceanic/aquatic waters!!
F.M.

[litesong]

tina anne wrote:

Don't you have any more or is that it?

Tina Anne would try to bluff her way into Heaven, when confronted with the Lamb's Book of Life that showed that her name was..........NOT THERE!
I hope her name is in the Lamb's Book of Life......even brian_g's name..........& even dirtling's name..........& alas, bob burn's name. I would NOT be the Judge to keep anyone from Jesus.
But, there will be no bulling one's way into Heaven & to the side of the Blessed & Only Ruler.

[frank miller]

For 'Pete's sake' idiot 'litesong #13 get a frigging job! You and that filthy car you drive
with all the smog devices disconnected, is the biggest hypocrite of them all, you ignorant freak!
This is a Science forum moron, what's with all the Jesus, Ruler, Heaven crap? Did anyone ever
tell you not no mention HIS name in vain? Geez we've had to put up with your obtuse nonsense, what
now since 2008, rightup to now November 2009?
F.M.

[frank miller]

You 'litesong' and your icon friends are frigging nut cases! No wonder nothing will get accomplished
in Congress! You all uneducated equivocators have a stake in controversy!!!
F.M.

[frank miller]

Really to make my point in my #9 post, you should drive behind 12 buses 5 days a week ferrying kids to 'magnet schools' 25 miles each way across town
practically 10 months of the year! The blackened
carbon soot rich interior of the exhaust pipes
tells me a lot! They should be colorless, as if the first time it came off the factory: bare metal!
F.M.

[frank miller]

Continuation of my #9 post: Worn out oil control piston rings will also pass more high molecular weight hydrocarbons that even the catalytic converters cannot oxidize!! Besides how many people to you know who replace their catalytic converters, during the life of the car, truck, bus?
Malfunctioning, or clogged PCV valves are also
'clunkers' characteristics!
F.M.

[Chimney]

frank miller wrote:

Methane {CH4} is very quickly converted to carbon dioxide {CO2} and water by the photochemical reaction of sunlight photons, and ozone in the atmosphere! ie. O3 + H2O....[hv]..2 *OH + O2
and *OH + RH {CH4}....[O2]..RO*2 {CO2}+ H2O!!
The real poblem as I mentioned numerous times, and which the "cash for clunkers" program was designed to do both in Europe in January 2009, and here in the U.S. in July/August 2009 was to reduce the high molecular weight[>{CH4}n=1000 oil fumes
unburnt hydrocarbons coming out of tailpipes,
and more specifically from old cars, trucks without the crankcase recirculating fumes PCV, valves, oxidized by air pumps, oxygen sensors
lean/hot running controls, especially in U.S. States, and foreign countries which don't have
California's bi-annual smog certification checks!
These heavy fumes, ie. particularly diesel are persistent and do not get photochemically oxidized,
hence haze offshored wind carried to often inversioned air masses against mountain ranges!
They also coat leaves of trees above the
city heights, altering the CO2/heat photosynthesis
absorption, and oxygen/cooling water vapor bi-products causing trees to damage prematurely!
F.M.

All very interesting and true for all I know. But why is it an "either /or" thing? Looks like you are just raising an additional objection to fossil fuels, not an alternative one.

[frank miller]

On the contrary 'Chimney Dubai, UAE #18': I simply try to objectively answer each Topix thread! This one is about methane {CH4}! It is the primary lowest number of hydrocarbon homologues, in this case having one C atom! The next is propane with 3 carbons; butane with 4 carbons; isooctane {petrol} with 8 carbons; about 16 carbons kerosene
diesel/jet fuel; all pretty much oxidized to CO2, and water with about 7600 kilocalories per mole
exothermic heat emitted at tail pipes, radiator heat to air exchanges, the latter as an aside
to point out that is the real problem behind
regional GW, and GC, along with numerous other "man-kind heat island heats" joining atmosphere for the last 200 years of Civilization
replacing heat/CO2 absorbing, and oxygen/cooling water vapor trees vegetations, with also heat reradiating concrete buildings, asphalt pavements,
Winter heating/Summer air conditioning sources,
etc.. which as in all my previous posts are independent of CO2, CH4 from a heat-trapping stand-point.
Now having said that, and you have to read all my other rationales for that thinking, as Science I think is not democratic in the sense the majority
votes makes it right! We are left with the about 1000 carbon atoms as in my #9 post of lubricating
oil, which as I tried to narrow to in my #16/17 posts, are very well handled with all modern cata-
lytic smog devices, which in States like California are well controlled by by-annual dynamic tailpipe smog emissions limits of a few parts per million HC's, and a thorough inspection for disconnected, malfunctioning smog abatement
devices, that vary a lot between manufacturers, for at the most going back 20 years, and cars, trucks older than that are exempt! California is atypical, simply because they have 3 times more vehicles than people, therefore more strict, but wear and tear on engines vary with one's pocket book cash in repairing them, let alone knowing what makes them tick!!
F.M.

[frank miller]

Addition to my # 19 post: "...and oygen/cooling water vapor emitting trees vegetations..."
F.M.