The Longest Road: Being Both Lesbian and Transsexual

At the age of ten, I knew two things about myself. The first is, I was female. The second was that I was and am romantically and eventually sexually attracted to women. The one glaring massive problem for me was my body. I had been born male. I was born with all the right equipment to be a man, and I hated it. I loathed my own body.

[Rough beginning]

this is a sad story and wish no one has to go through or hear of again. I am heartly sorry of the molestation that happened in your life, which probably made you turn into what you are today. Sorry. I hate men for doing things like that. I hope the counselling helps with your problems. This is something that will take a lot of time to overcome and I just wish something like this doesn't have to happen to anyone else. Take care and all the best.

[Dove]

This is not as uncommon as many people may think. Gender and sexual orientation are not all that closely intertwined. Being transsexual makes a person no less likely to be homosexual than it would for anyone else.

Given just how difficult it can be to find acceptance and understanding when you're transsexual or homosexual, how very much more difficult it must be when you are both. And yet it happens and can't be denied. If that isn't proof that these are not "choices" but simply facts of biology, I don't know what would be.

[Sei]

Rough beginning,

Actually, what the molestation did was delay me being who I am today. It's caused more pain, but it really didn't cause me to be transsexual or lesbian, both of which started to emerge long before the molestation.

Dove,

Thank you. I know that this is a subject that does happen, but a lot of people don't like to discuss it much.

[Lori]

Great story, thank you so much for sharing! I grew up so much like you and what I found to be true for me is that painfull events can break us or make us stronger! I look back and wonder what I would be if I wasn't challenged by life. Please keep sharing your story.

[Arin]

Thank you for sharing your story. I am trans myself. I was born in a female body, but have always identified as a male. I have a MTF friend of mine that is also a lesbian. Please keep sharing your story, this subject does not get discussed often enough. For many transgender, transsexual or intersexed people most of our stories and experiences go unheard.

[Dasein9]

Yes, thank you for sharing your story. This is important work. As long as people don't know we exist, they have no way to deal. It took me a good long while to catch on that I could be both gay and transgender too. How much time and work could have been saved by that simple concept!

Hugs,
- Das
(a transgender gay man)

[Pauline]

So whats new. I knew at 3-4, married a woman and later after fixing the plumming married a man, he died 2 years later. I spent 40 years messing with women, and two with a man. I loved both of them.

I have learned its not what sex your partner is but how you make them happy and they you.

[Rough beginning]

Sei wrote:

Rough beginning,
Actually, what the molestation did was delay me being who I am today. It's caused more pain, but it really didn't cause me to be transsexual or lesbian, both of which started to emerge long before the molestation.
Dove,
Thank you. I know that this is a subject that does happen, but a lot of people don't like to discuss it much.

ya, you know what, I used to buy that, but not anymore. I have children and my son said to me that he wants to grow up to be a big girl. Does this mean that he actually wants to be a girl? No way, it means he doesn't know any different. We explained to him that he is a big boy and is going to grow up to be a big boy like daddy. He said "Oh okay." That was that, but if you don't have the people in your life to guide you properly, than yes, you can be affected by things like molestation to make you into who you are today.

[Sei]

Rough Beginning,

I have a loving family which has guided me rather well over the years. While I was not forced into a given gender role, I was certainly not encouaged to be feminine. My parents assumed that I would grow out of my interest in playing female characters. I was simply not forced into playing sports I hated.

In my post, I was, perhaps, a bit remiss in explaining that the molestation did not come from inside my family the way you seem to assume it did. The man who molested me was an employee at the school I attended that year. The incident was, from what I can remember, a single event and not a sustained molestation.

What ever you may believe, the reality is that I had long ago begun to sort out that I was female, even long before that singular event occurred. I was not guided incorrectly by my family, and my family has never been anything but supportive of me.

[Rikki S]

Rough beginning wrote:

<quoted text>
ya, you know what, I used to buy that, but not anymore. I have children and my son said to me that he wants to grow up to be a big girl. Does this mean that he actually wants to be a girl? No way, it means he doesn't know any different. We explained to him that he is a big boy and is going to grow up to be a big boy like daddy. He said "Oh okay." That was that, but if you don't have the people in your life to guide you properly, than yes, you can be affected by things like molestation to make you into who you are today.

Yes, children can have thoughts like yours and are easily re-directed. Those who are transgendered go way further than just a fleeting thought. It is who we are, not a dream or a wish. It is how we were born, not what we dream up.

[Lesbian with a FTM]

Rough beginning wrote:

<quoted text>
ya, you know what, I used to buy that, but not anymore. I have children and my son said to me that he wants to grow up to be a big girl. Does this mean that he actually wants to be a girl? No way, it means he doesn't know any different. We explained to him that he is a big boy and is going to grow up to be a big boy like daddy. He said "Oh okay." That was that, but if you don't have the people in your life to guide you properly, than yes, you can be affected by things like molestation to make you into who you are today.

Or you are simply suppressing your child and making him miserable by ignoring what he really needs. His statement may have been to test the water. If he was just testing the water...you failed him.

I knew the difference between being female and being male and nobody ever had to tell me. I've never been molested. My family loves and supports me. They didn’t “guide” me because I would have rebelled.

Telling him he is going to grow up and be a man like daddy when he was in-fact telling you he wants to be a woman you have just smacked him in the head. Kids NEVER forget things like that.

[Dyssonance]

"Oh. Okay."

I said that.

Aside from a few odd quirks that I kept secret unti I was 13, and then nothing after that, I spent my life pissed off as a result of being told *exactly* what you stated and giving pretty the same answer.

I'm now a grown woman, and better off as a person and as a member of society.

This despite not being quite so lucky as Sei was in terms of family not forcing me.

Mine did. Which is why I was 13 before they found out it hadn't worked.

I was pushed into sports and masculine things, surrounded by sometimes hyper masculine role models.

I surrendered. It broke my spirit, and I've never been able to forgive that.

My parents are gone now.

Listen to your children. They know themselves. They just can't always articulate it.

[Pauline]

Rikki S wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, children can have thoughts like yours and are easily re-directed. Those who are transgendered go way further than just a fleeting thought. It is who we are, not a dream or a wish. It is how we were born, not what we dream up.

Its deeper than that. I call it a vanishing Twin Syndrome. over 60% of us start as twins, but one disappears in the first few weeks. As to when that twin disappears is not kept in records as most were not detected early.

To give you some ideas where

I am coming from think of the late joiners first. The child born with two heads of two bodies, extra limbs or just conjoined.

Now consider the intersexed child who has both sets of sex organs. there were two a boy and a girl and only the sex tissue remains of the twin.

Consider the child born with a second child within them. Born Pregnant, most are male on the surviving twin and the other becomes a parasite with in, no brain or other organ but mist grow hair and nails have fingers and toes and limbs.

Going back a few steps further we have a twin that is absorbed and only the gender is combined and the controlling part of the brain of one twin remains to control the body, not a problem if the gender of the body matches the gender of the brain. But when it does not it comes to realization of the gender at the time they understand what gender is, no I am a girl not a boy, I was born wrong. Many parents just spank them and smother them with the toys of the bodies physical gender.

Teen suicide, Children who think they must be gay as they do not understand the intersexed condition called gender dysphoria. others who muddle thru until they can make a correction. They are generally called late transitioners as they raise their children first then fix them selves. Those with horribally intense feelings will do anything for surgery while young, prostitute themselves, rob a bank, steal, murder, they know no bounds, some are lucky and have family support, they are the lucky ones who mom and Dad will do anything to help them. My roommate in Neneeh was a dentists kid, mom took it well but the dad had problems, as I was his age we talked a lot. He felt very good and supportive by the time I left 2 days before his daughter.

Transgender includes many who do not wish to have surgery, maybe 1 in 10 Trans genders are transsexual. the transsexual really has no choice, at a certain point it becomes all they live for, remove it or I die problem. It is not optional. It is worse than any other feeling ever.
And it goes away with simple surgery. 4 hours after being wheeled into the operating room they become normal men or women, drive changes greatly.

The DSM III called them True Transsexuals. Its the worst thing that a transsexual can be, not an Elitist attitude just a very bad diagnosis..

[Annaleigh]

Pauline wrote:

<quoted text>

Now consider the intersexed child who has both sets of sex organs. there were two a boy and a girl and only the sex tissue remains of the twin.

May I ask where you get this information on intersexed individuals?
I have a fairly good library of interseded information from scientific and medical studies and never heard any case of intersexed conditions being caused by a vanishing twin.
-
here is part of a very good documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[Dyssonance]

the information noted is strictly a theoretical on *some* elements of mosaicism.

[Dyssonance]

oh holy cow -- total conflation of concepts and ideas that are distinct, as well as a fundamental failure to understand causative parameters.

Pauline -- you didn't finish reading. go study some more.

[Annaleigh]

Are we on the cusp of discovering what determines gender? The old mantra - all girls have XX chromosomes and all boys have XY - is no longer reliable. Scientists are now looking beyond chromosomes to "brain sex" and the role of newly discovered genes. By studying transsexuals and people on the gender extremes, they believe they can unlock the gender puzzle. This high-quality documentary looks at the new and challenging science of gender.

Tall, thin and strikingly beautiful, model Christie North always felt female. But when she was 15, she discovered she’d been born with male chromosomes.“There was no mention at school that there can be mix ups with your chromosomes”, she complains.“Many people have the same problem – more than you think.” As well as girls with XY chromosomes, one in 500 boys are born with a double XX as well as a Y. Most only find out about their condition when they try to father children and discover they’re infertile.

Until the 1990s, gender was largely about chromosomes. But this principle was challenged when a new gene was discovered which is needed to start the process of ‘maleness’.“I think we’re starting to understand how the brain is hard-wired differently between males and females”, explains Prof. Vince Harley. Scientists are now looking at a further 54 genes which are turned on differently in males and females. They may help to explain why people identify as one gender or the other, regardless of chromosomes.

There is a small but growing body of evidence that transsexuals’ brains are hard-wired in the uterus to be either male or female. A Dutch study found that male-to-female transsexuals have the same brain features as other women instead of being identical to men’s.“There is a public perception that transsexualism is a lifestyle choice”, states Prof Vince Harley.“To reaffirm a biological basis is quite empowering for them.”

These discoveries are starting to redefine the gender debate. In the 60s and 70s, it was believed the nature of a child’s upbring had such a strong influence that an intersex condition could be corrected through the right upbringing. The child was allocated a sex, underwent genital surgery and was then raised in its assigned sex. But many of these children had a traumatic childhood, unable to reconcile their identity with their bodies. For them, the ‘brain sex’ theory makes perfect sense.

The theory of brain sex is also challenging the law.‘Kevin’, a transsexual, was threatened with imprisonment if he married his female partner. He successfully contested this by providing the court with evidence suggesting a biological basis to his transsexualism. In his verdict, Justice Richard Chisolm concluded:“In view of all the evidence, the things that characterise transsexuals are as much biological as mental.”

Far more controversial than adults changing gender, is the issue of teenagers who want to.“All the medical evidence indicates that the earlier children with transsexualism receive treatment, the better their lives are”, reasons lawyer and transsexual Rachel Wallbank. But others disagree.“You’re wondering all the time whether the young person actually has enough life experience to make that judgement”, states Craig Andrews. He runs a support group helping transsexuals and is concerned about the increasing number of young people who want treatment.

As science discovers more about what determines gender, making these decisions may become a little easier. But for now, we are only just starting to understand just how complex the biology is.

ABC Australia
http://www.journeyman.tv/...

[Pauline]

Annaleigh wrote:

<quoted text>May I ask where you get this information on intersexed individuals?
I have a fairly good library of intersexed information from scientific and medical studies and never heard any case of intersexed conditions being caused by a vanishing twin.
-
here is part of a very good documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I have spent a great deal of time investigating how I came to be. There are many books and educational videos on development from fertilizaton on to birth.

In 30 years of searching for me I have read maybe 500 books. Each contributed. It wasn't until I started on Conjoined twins that I took it going back to how they developed and just got to the missing twin that was there at 3 months but gone in checks at 6 months.

In researching I found I had a scar where a vagina should have been. I was born with Congenital Adrenal Hypertension, In reconstructing the Vagina my surgeon in Wisconsin noted he had to cut threw scar tissue.

I found many developments situations that would today be called intersexed. I found I had been fixed at 6 months. and undescended testis were lowered and the mini penis made to be somewhat longer.

There is no one book that describes all I have found, but one day I hope to write one.

There are two web sites called Vanishing Twins.

[Annaleigh]

Pauline wrote:

<quoted text>
I have spent a great deal of time investigating how I came to be. There are many books and educational videos on development from fertilizaton on to birth.
In 30 years of searching for me I have read maybe 500 books. Each contributed. It wasn't until I started on Conjoined twins that I took it going back to how they developed and just got to the missing twin that was there at 3 months but gone in checks at 6 months.
In researching I found I had a scar where a vagina should have been. I was born with Congenital Adrenal Hypertension, In reconstructing the Vagina my surgeon in Wisconsin noted he had to cut threw scar tissue.
I found many developments situations that would today be called intersexed. I found I had been fixed at 6 months. and undescended testis were lowered and the mini penis made to be somewhat longer.
There is no one book that describes all I have found, but one day I hope to write one.
There are two web sites called Vanishing Twins.

I have several articles on what is called
(fetus in fetu)Here is an article that is somewhat in depth.
-
PEDIATRICS Vol. 105 No. 6 June 2000, pp. 1335-1344
EXPERIENCE AND REASON:
Fetus In Fetu: A Case Report and Literature Review
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/con...
Fetus in fetu is a malformed parasitic monozygotic diamniotic twin that is found inside the body of the living child or adult.

To date, 31 cases have been published before 1900 and only 11 have been published from 1900 to 1956.3-7 This pathology is rare and the incidence is 1 per 500 000 births.8

We have reviewed 87 cases published in the literature and compared these with our own case. We have noted and emphasized some interesting features of this condition (Table 1).
-
-
here is another article about this.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/4677...

In this condition, a parasitic mass grows in the abdomen of its host. This mass is actually the hosts actual twin. This occurs when a fetus gets trapped in its twins body early during pregnancy. Both fetuses share a common placenta, where one fetus wraps itself around the other fetus and the enveloped fetus becomes the parasite. The parasitic twin, feeds off its hosts blood supply and continues to grow until it starts to harm the host. The condition can occur in men or women and can leave the host looking pregnant. Usually both twins will die, but in some cases the host twin is actually delivered and the parasitic twin continues to grow inside the hosts body. In some cases the parasitic twin is not discovered until adulthood, although this in itself is very rare considering the amount of x-rays and technology we have today and it is usually discovered much sooner.

[Annaleigh]

now according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin

A vanishing twin is a fetus in a multi-gestation pregnancy which dies in utero and is then partially or completely reabsorbed by the mother or twin [1].

The occurrence of this phenomenon is sometimes referred to as twin embolisation syndrome or vanishing twin syndrome (VTS), since the 1980s when twin pregnancies were made visible early on by means of ultrasound.

Occasionally, rather than being completely resorbed, the dead fetus will undergo mechanical compression by its wombmate(s), resulting in a flattened, parchment-like state known as fetus papyraceus [2].

If the fetus is absorbed completely, there are usually no further complications to the pregnancy, other than first trimester vaginal bleeding [3]. However, if the event occurs in the second or third trimester, serious complications may include premature labor, infection due to the demise of the fetus, and hemorrhage. Even at the end of the pregnancy, a low-lying fetus papyraceus may block the cervix and require a cesarean to deliver the living twin.

The vanished twin can die owing to a poorly implanted placenta, a developmental anomaly that may cause major organs to fail or be missing completely, or there may be a chromosome abnormality incompatible with life. Frequently the twin is a blighted ovum, one that never developed beyond the very earliest stages of embryogenesis.
-
-
But I have not ran across any medical or scientific articles where the vanishing twin causes the surviving twin to be intersexed.