Dear Crystal - Thanks for Writing

I don't get a lot of mail like this at Hahn at Home, but this one struck me particularly and I need to respond on to her. The assault of money and zealotry pouring into California from the outside of the Prop 8 issue is very scary.

Crystal Oftedahl said: Participating in Homosexuality will leave any person with an inevitable feeling of guilt and shame that cannot be relieved except by true repentance- it can only be deadened by ignoring it. That’s because Our Creator endowed each of us with the ability to recognize whether we are are on the right track in life, so that ultimately we can return home to Him and experience the pure joy of unpolluted family relationships. The Devil is real, and wants to stip (sic) us of our freedom to have that happiness by convincing us to participate in filthiness and read more

[Misti Wilde]

Great response. You're a great role model and I'm glad to have you on my side and speaking on my behalf as a fellow homosexual. Good luck in Cali.

[Dasein9]

Somehow I suspect this is a Crystal some of us know and loathe from right here at Topix.

Well done, Ms. Hahn!

[Misti Wilde]

Dasein9 wrote:

Somehow I suspect this is a Crystal some of us know and loathe from right here at Topix.
Well done, Ms. Hahn!

Loathe? I'm new here but I didn't feel loathing. I felt pity. She sounds very sad and mentally unsound. I wonder what happened to her; Or if she's just ill.

[denise]

she's ill all right. she perceives gays as inevitably guilty and shameful. well of all the gays i know plus me we don't feel anything of the king. you feel enough for the world honey, take a pill and get a life. the only freedom being stripped by us, is all you right wing nut jobs trying to legislate our lives in the name of the lord. you jesus creeps truly scare me. god if you're really out there please deliver us from the 'do gooder' christians before they kill us in your name.

[CDMelton]

Ah, the old "We don't make you feel like crap with our oppresion and denial of basic human rights. GOD makes you feel like crap as consequence for being, um, you," argument. I know it well, and I've heard it often. And it still makes no sense and serves only as fanatical one-sided self-superior double-talk.

Oh, and to get it out of the way before name-of-the-day shows up (and because I'm from Illinois so apparently it's my stately duty), here it goes:
"No signifigant percentage of homosexuals has ever gotten married in any country where it's legal. I'm secretly gay myself but can't admit it because I suspect my penis may be inadequate. My name is Will and I'm a chronic masturbater and I still live with my parents. Blah blah blah. Gays are bad because they really don't all secretly want to convert me. Leviticus Leviticus Leviticus."
There, now there's no need for him to post it.

[Misti Wilde]

denise wrote:

she's ill all right. she perceives gays as inevitably guilty and shameful. well of all the gays i know plus me we don't feel anything of the king. you feel enough for the world honey, take a pill and get a life. the only freedom being stripped by us, is all you right wing nut jobs trying to legislate our lives in the name of the lord. you jesus creeps truly scare me. god if you're really out there please deliver us from the 'do gooder' christians before they kill us in your name.

They do appear dyslexic since they've most all interpreted the core of the message of Jesus Christ completely backward.

[Misti Wilde]

CDMelton wrote:

Ah, the old "We don't make you feel like crap with our oppresion and denial of basic human rights. GOD makes you feel like crap as consequence for being, um, you," argument. I know it well, and I've heard it often. And it still makes no sense and serves only as fanatical one-sided self-superior double-talk.
Oh, and to get it out of the way before name-of-the-day shows up (and because I'm from Illinois so apparently it's my stately duty), here it goes:
"No signifigant percentage of homosexuals has ever gotten married in any country where it's legal. I'm secretly gay myself but can't admit it because I suspect my penis may be inadequate. My name is Will and I'm a chronic masturbater and I still live with my parents. Blah blah blah. Gays are bad because they really don't all secretly want to convert me. Leviticus Leviticus Leviticus."
There, now there's no need for him to post it.

"All secretly want to convert me" is such a funny thing because "heterosexuals" really think we want them, no matter what they look like. They think we crave ANYONE of the same sex. I've had so many "ugly" (pardon my french) straight women accuse me of wanting them when they found out I was gay...or come on to me. It's soooo NOT like that... and they look offended when I turn them down, like it's the lowest blow in the world to get turned down by a "same sex crazed maniacal" homosexual. Dude, I have high standards. It's an insulting presumption on their part about us.

[Dasein9]

CDMelton wrote:

Ah, the old "We don't make you feel like crap with our oppresion and denial of basic human rights. GOD makes you feel like crap as consequence for being, um, you," argument. I know it well, and I've heard it often. And it still makes no sense and serves only as fanatical one-sided self-superior double-talk.
Oh, and to get it out of the way before name-of-the-day shows up (and because I'm from Illinois so apparently it's my stately duty), here it goes:
"No signifigant percentage of homosexuals has ever gotten married in any country where it's legal. I'm secretly gay myself but can't admit it because I suspect my penis may be inadequate. My name is Will and I'm a chronic masturbater and I still live with my parents. Blah blah blah. Gays are bad because they really don't all secretly want to convert me. Leviticus Leviticus Leviticus."
There, now there's no need for him to post it.

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

CD!!!!!!!!!! Hugs. More hugs. Still more HUGS!!!

[Dasein9]

Misti Wilde wrote:

<quoted text> "All secretly want to convert me" is such a funny thing because "heterosexuals" really think we want them, no matter what they look like. They think we crave ANYONE of the same sex. I've had so many "ugly" (pardon my french) straight women accuse me of wanting them when they found out I was gay...or come on to me. It's soooo NOT like that... and they look offended when I turn them down, like it's the lowest blow in the world to get turned down by a "same sex crazed maniacal" homosexual. Dude, I have high standards. It's an insulting presumption on their part about us.

I wish you could be a fly on the wall when I, a tranny fag, turn down an older gay man! Ohhhhh, it's funny! A lot of them seem to think I don't get dates, and so they're willing to make the enormous sacrifice of being nice to me, so long as I put up with intensely personal questions and being told what I'm going to do...

The sputtering and look of utter horror as it dawns on them that they've just been turned down by the "freak" is Master-Card-commerical-worthy.

[Misti Wilde]

Dasein9 wrote:

<quoted text>
I wish you could be a fly on the wall when I, a tranny fag, turn down an older gay man! Ohhhhh, it's funny! A lot of them seem to think I don't get dates, and so they're willing to make the enormous sacrifice of being nice to me, so long as I put up with intensely personal questions and being told what I'm going to do...
The sputtering and look of utter horror as it dawns on them that they've just been turned down by the "freak" is Master-Card-commerical-worthy.

I KNOW! I'm not sure if I'm a tranny fag or not; What exactly is that again? Okay, I have girl parts and feel like a girl inside and am only attracted to other humans with girl parts pref. some meat on their bones and tomboyish is cutest to me.I'm just a lesbian right? Plain old lesbian? Nah, I don't get out much... But I'm a damn fine woman, like traffic stopping fine, like proposed to by strangers daily fine, and "Oh f*ck, I think I've got another stalker!" fine. MY POINT IS THOUGH that straight chicks ALL think I want them and am desperate for thier COOCH as soon as they find out I'm gay. THESE ARE RARELY ATTRACTIVE WOMEN, and they too think that they're doing me a favor by paying attention to me, making a sacrifice; Like I'm a mercy case! I'm so glad someone else understands this prob. OFFTOPIC! But I had to get that out.

[Dasein9]

Misti Wilde wrote:

<quoted text>I KNOW! I'm not sure if I'm a tranny fag or not; What exactly is that again? Okay, I have girl parts and feel like a girl inside and am only attracted to other humans with girl parts pref. some meat on their bones and tomboyish is cutest to me.I'm just a lesbian right? Plain old lesbian? Nah, I don't get out much... But I'm a damn fine woman, like traffic stopping fine, like proposed to by strangers daily fine, and "Oh f*ck, I think I've got another stalker!" fine. MY POINT IS THOUGH that straight chicks ALL think I want them and am desperate for thier COOCH as soon as they find out I'm gay. THESE ARE RARELY ATTRACTIVE WOMEN, and they too think that they're doing me a favor by paying attention to me, making a sacrifice; Like I'm a mercy case! I'm so glad someone else understands this prob. OFFTOPIC! But I had to get that out.

Oh, I understand all right! And the guys in my case seem to think they're doing me a favour!

A tranny fag is a transgender gay man. In my case that means I'm masculine gendered, female bodied, and attracted to men. In every way except the biological, I'm a gay man. Just a non-standard model.

[Imprtnrd]

Misti Wilde wrote:

<quoted text>I KNOW! I'm not sure if I'm a tranny fag or not; What exactly is that again? Okay, I have girl parts and feel like a girl inside and am only attracted to other humans with girl parts pref. some meat on their bones and tomboyish is cutest to me.I'm just a lesbian right? Plain old lesbian? Nah, I don't get out much... But I'm a damn fine woman, like traffic stopping fine, like proposed to by strangers daily fine, and "Oh f*ck, I think I've got another stalker!" fine. MY POINT IS THOUGH that straight chicks ALL think I want them and am desperate for thier COOCH as soon as they find out I'm gay. THESE ARE RARELY ATTRACTIVE WOMEN, and they too think that they're doing me a favor by paying attention to me, making a sacrifice; Like I'm a mercy case! I'm so glad someone else understands this prob. OFFTOPIC! But I had to get that out.

WOW! I understand exactly what you mean. STR8 guys think I'm after them.(maybe that is THEIR fantasy). I don't know. That's like when STR8 guys think all women want him. LOL

[Misti Wilde]

Dasein9 wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh, I understand all right! And the guys in my case seem to think they're doing me a favour!
A tranny fag is a transgender gay man. In my case that means I'm masculine gendered, female bodied, and attracted to men. In every way except the biological, I'm a gay man. Just a non-standard model.

I still don't get it. I'm homosexually retarded. Forget about it. You're really saying I don't have a chance with you right?

[Dasein9]

Misti Wilde wrote:

<quoted text>I still don't get it. I'm homosexually retarded. Forget about it. You're really saying I don't have a chance with you right?

Lol! Well played.

[Dasein9]

BTW, that's the other side of the whole thing -- lesbians. Not all lesbians, mind you, but there are some who think I'm a woman and hit on me and then get downright angry when I explain I'm a transgender man. Not just that "I've been turned down." feeling, but actually angry, because, to their way of thinking, I'm a traitor to all women everywhere.

I'm with Jamison Green (another transman) on this: Sure, I've reduced the ranks of strong women by one. But I've increased the ranks of feminist men by one as well.

[Misti Wilde]

Dasein9 wrote:

BTW, that's the other side of the whole thing -- lesbians. Not all lesbians, mind you, but there are some who think I'm a woman and hit on me and then get downright angry when I explain I'm a transgender man. Not just that "I've been turned down." feeling, but actually angry, because, to their way of thinking, I'm a traitor to all women everywhere.
I'm with Jamison Green (another transman) on this: Sure, I've reduced the ranks of strong women by one. But I've increased the ranks of feminist men by one as well.

I still don't really get it (not the sharpest crayon in the tool shed here) but I have a feeling I should be aghast about this travesty and defend myself, or pretend something...I'm not sure what... But if you were chubby I'd be heartbroken. You're cute as heck.

[Dasein9]

Misti Wilde wrote:

<quoted text>I still don't really get it (not the sharpest crayon in the tool shed here) but I have a feeling I should be aghast about this travesty and defend myself, or pretend something...I'm not sure what... But if you were chubby I'd be heartbroken. You're cute as heck.

Why should you defend yourself? You're not one of the people who attacks, nor are you one of the ones I'm attacking.

I don't know. Is 5'4", and wearing 33" waist "chubby" nowadays? I think so, but then the binder distorts things so!

[Misti Wilde]

Dasein9 wrote:

<quoted text>
Why should you defend yourself? You're not one of the people who attacks, nor are you one of the ones I'm attacking.
I don't know. Is 5'4", and wearing 33" waist "chubby" nowadays? I think so, but then the binder distorts things so!

I'm sorry but you're just not fat enough.Ever heard that one before?

[Misti Wilde]

Dasein9 wrote:

<quoted text>
Why should you defend yourself? You're not one of the people who attacks, nor are you one of the ones I'm attacking.
I don't know. Is 5'4", and wearing 33" waist "chubby" nowadays? I think so, but then the binder distorts things so!

I swear to God I still don't get it and it's been about 6 hours. You know I obsess right? WELL I DO! I think I deserve to know my homosexual labels correctly! I've been gay for a really really long time dammit! I just don't really know any gay people well or gay terms or gay things. Is there really a gay agenda? I hear that on christian radio (guilty pleasure) all the time and feel so left out that THEY know more about my "lifestyle" than I do. Is there a "lifestyle"? I don't go to bars. I go to dance recitals and cheerleading practice and student council meetings and teacher's conferneces and school orchestra concerts and the grocery store and on and on. I must be the dumbest homosexual ever. Just give me another hint. I'm stumped. Yes it's important! I'm uneducated and feel really stupid.

[Dasein9]

Misti Wilde wrote:

<quoted text>I swear to God I still don't get it and it's been about 6 hours. You know I obsess right? WELL I DO! I think I deserve to know my homosexual labels correctly! I've been gay for a really really long time dammit! I just don't really know any gay people well or gay terms or gay things. Is there really a gay agenda? I hear that on christian radio (guilty pleasure) all the time and feel so left out that THEY know more about my "lifestyle" than I do. Is there a "lifestyle"? I don't go to bars. I go to dance recitals and cheerleading practice and student council meetings and teacher's conferneces and school orchestra concerts and the grocery store and on and on. I must be the dumbest homosexual ever. Just give me another hint. I'm stumped. Yes it's important! I'm uneducated and feel really stupid.

Thank you for the "not fat enough" comment. I was shamed for being too big for most of my youth, so I love hearing that!

Okay, there are several joke "Gay Agendas" online. They're pretty funny. The only real one is the movement to gain equality under the law, though.

And there is no "gay lifestyle." My lifestyle, for instance, is very different from yours. I call it "urban camping," since I live in the Bronx, but do my laundry in the bathtub, and trek into Manhattan to buy groceries and cat litter.(I have a lot of allergies and the really good cat litter isn't sold in my neighbourhood.)

Are you asking about the transgender thing? It's probably more simple than you think it is. I'm a guy in terms of social role, mannerisms, ways of thinking, and sexual behaviour. But not in terms of biology. That's all. I live as a man, wear a tie when necessary, etc. But I'm biologically female. And I'm gay, which in this case means I date other gay men.(If that surprises you, join the club. I've been surprised and delighted to find there are plenty of men who want to date me, and some of them are even men I want to date.)