Are the Prop 8 folks backing away from their two most outrageous lies?

Are the Prop 8 folks backing away from their two most outrageous lies?

Look at the web sites run by the folks trying to write unfairness into California’s state Constitution and you won’t see their claim that defeating Prop 8 will mean that churches “may” lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to perform same gender marriages.

Yup: go to their “youth site” (http://iprotectmarriage.com) and click on:

“Churches - Prop. 8 prevents reverse discrimination against churches and other centers of worship” or

“Faith - Prop. 8 protects freedom of religion and freedom of speech.” Both of these links now go to the site’s page on “Rights.”

Of course, the folks who want to write inequality into our state Constitution have not taken their misleading ads off the air. You can still hear and see them claim that if we don’t pass Prop 8:

1. Churches “may” lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to marry same gender couples; and

2. People who oppose gay marriage on “moral” grounds could” lose their freedom of speech.

You see why the “Yes on 8” folks dropped these arguments from their web sites? Of course they waited until their lies had been broadcast across the state for weeks to be sure as many people as possible herd them.

Let’s think about their claims.

[fuzi]

I've always said that these "christians" are nothing but liars, their entire premise of their religion is based on a lie, so expecting them to tell the truth about us or anyone else is just pissing into the wind.

[Michael]

As we fight back against those who would take our rights away, our democratic leadership leaves us to fend for ourselves.
Obama/Biden have raised more money than any campaign in the history of the world and they have not given one red cent to help us fight against this.
It is time for us to abandon the party that abandoned us years ago.
McKinney '08

[fuzi]

Michael wrote:

As we fight back against those who would take our rights away, our democratic leadership leaves us to fend for ourselves.
Obama/Biden have raised more money than any campaign in the history of the world and they have not given one red cent to help us fight against this.
It is time for us to abandon the party that abandoned us years ago.
McKinney '08

You're even more ignorant than I first surmised. McKinney??? Are you serious????? She and her father are virulently anti-gay. I've seen her in action first-hand, she's a joke and not a funny one.

[Michael]

Read the Green Party Platform. They support full marriage equality. the democratic party platform? Nope. A 26,000 word document and only 150 words dedicated to queer issues! That's .005 percent!

You are a fool for supporting a party that doesn't give a crqp about you.

[fuzi]

Michael wrote:

Read the Green Party Platform. They support full marriage equality. the democratic party platform? Nope. A 26,000 word document and only 150 words dedicated to queer issues! That's .005 percent!
You are a fool for supporting a party that doesn't give a crqp about you.

Your vote, however, is effectively a vote for the GOP, which has in its platform a direct anti-gay agenda that actively seeks to harm us. Our current political system does not allow for a 3rd party candidate to win, it is a statistical impossibility. Your high-ideals have no relation to the real world as it is. While it is admirable to desire to change the current system, your vote will not do that. You will actually be voting to continue the status quo by helping elect the GOP candidate, who sees the change you desire as a threat.

That is the difference. While the Democrats may only give lip-service to gay issues, the GOP actively seeks our demise. Your vote for a 3rd party only helps the GOP in the long run.

And again, McKinney and her father are two peas in the same pod. They are virulently anti-gay. I've lived in the same area as them for the past 25 years and I know their antics all too well. They are racist, as well, despicably so.

[Michael]

Voting for either of the two main parties maintains the status quo. Stop kidding yourself already.

[Michael]

Question: Where would the republican party be without democrats?

Answer: In jail.

[fuzi]

Michael wrote:

Voting for either of the two main parties maintains the status quo. Stop kidding yourself already.

Voting 3rd party candidate does nothing but help the GOP. That's just the facts of how the system works. Sorry that you can't comprehend that simple fact.

[JoeSixPack]

It's simply amazing to see how some people want full equality under the law but when it comes to assuming full responsibility that goes along with the benefits, their eyebrows start frowning and shuddering at the thought of matching the lives, trials and tribulations of a traditional marriage. It doesn't end with the title of bride and groom, subsequently it becomes husband and wife, mother and father, grandma and grandpa, etc.

Now let's see you people demonstrate your so-called equality or are you just interested in qualifying for the benefits and tax breaks?

[fuzi]

JoeSixPack wrote:

It's simply amazing to see how some people want full equality under the law but when it comes to assuming full responsibility that goes along with the benefits, their eyebrows start frowning and shuddering at the thought of matching the lives, trials and tribulations of a traditional marriage. It doesn't end with the title of bride and groom, subsequently it becomes husband and wife, mother and father, grandma and grandpa, etc.
Now let's see you people demonstrate your so-called equality or are you just interested in qualifying for the benefits and tax breaks?

It seems you're jumping to some highly unfounded conclusions based on.... well... nothing. In effect, you're making up a complete and utter lie in an attempt to justify your bigotry. That's rather shameless and disgusting, but typical of your kind. I think you're about 2 cans shy of a complete six-pack.

I've not seen witness that anybody fighting for equality has shirked their responsibilities. All I've seen is the demand for EQUALITY, and that means in everything, the good and the bad, the benefits and the responsibilities.

To bad you can't be so honest.

[Michael]

fuzi wrote:

<quoted text>Voting 3rd party candidate does nothing but help the GOP. That's just the facts of how the system works. Sorry that you can't comprehend that simple fact.

It may help the GOP, but it also tells the Dems that they can not count on my support. And this year, no amount of 'help' will elect McCain. He's finished. Therefore I will vote my conscience since most gays don't have a problem assisting in their own discrimination by supporting the status quo.

[fuzi]

Michael wrote:

<quoted text>
It may help the GOP, but it also tells the Dems that they can not count on my support. And this year, no amount of 'help' will elect McCain. He's finished. Therefore I will vote my conscience since most gays don't have a problem assisting in their own discrimination by supporting the status quo.

You make an invalid assumption that my vote for the Democratic candidate is supporting the status quo. While I will vote Dem., I also advocate for changing the system so that viable 3rd party candidates eventually can be electable. The only way to do that is by getting those in power in the current system to allow it. That's just the way it works, unfortunately. We have to win over those who control things now in order to make the system better in the future. Anything that gives tacit support to the GOP thwarts that effort, however.