Sorry We Asked, Sorry You Told

Elaine Donnelly, a crusader against gays in the military, torpedoes her own ship.

Don't ask, don't tell. And, whatever you do, don't ask Elaine Donnelly to tell you what she thinks about gays in the military.

The House Armed Services personnel subcommittee made just such a miscalculation yesterday. Holding the first hearing in 15 years on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, lawmakers invited a quartet of veterans to testify on the subject and also extended an invitation to Donnelly, who has been working for years to protect our fighting forces from the malign influence of women.

[devons]

Here is a prime example as to why some posts from silly bigots should go unanswered. They do more good for gay rights then any response could ever do.

[LindaS]

Funny how she is not on her high horse about the straight men in the military who harass and rape women, huh?

Suppose this woman really thinks that gays are not serving now? They are and they will continue to, no matter whether don't ask don't tell is removed or not, but gays in the military deserve to have the same rights as the straights fighting next to them.

I agree, like many bigots, the best thing you can do is let them talk. Give them enough rope to hang themselves with, as my grandma would say.

[dante2810]

The best way to fight bigots and idiots like this is to give them a microphone and a pulpit and let educated people see them for who they are....

She, by her own stupidity, probably helped us more than we could ever imagine.

[McMike]

devons wrote:

Here is a prime example as to why some posts from silly bigots should go unanswered. They do more good for gay rights then any response could ever do.

Agreed. I sometimes wonder if these homophobes are actually gay men making such asinine statements to further our cause.

For example:
"Like a woman who is stared at, her breasts are stared at"

So, by her logic, we should not only ban lesbians but straight men too seeing they are fond of women's breasts.

These homophobes keep spouting the same crap and everyone is getting over it.

[kooky]

Way to go, homophobes. With people like Donnelly around, equal rights are sure to come sooner than most expect. These people are only showing the rest of the world, in a highly public forum, how stupid they really are.

[WAW]

She has not only insulted the gay community but also intelligent women all over the world. Everyone should have started to laugh and then leave. What a statement that would have been.

[Mitch]

I watched the coverage of this hearing on CNN and actually cursed at my television set several times. The comments Ms. Donnelly made that were most upsetting indicated she clearly believes that if Don't Ask, Don't Tell is lifted there will be a sudden onslaught of lesbians cornering and sexually assaulting straight women, as though they travel around like a pack of wolves seeking their next prey. Ask any of the female cadets at service academies raped by male officers or fellow cadets if they think this is a bigger threat than what they've been through.

I have some news for you, Ms. Donnelly (and anyone else still as narrow-minded), there are many gay men and lesbians on active duty in the military whose service records are exemplary and deserving of our praise and honor and I can guarantee their conduct far exceeds that of straight, white men who still believe they are the only ones "eligible" (Ms. Donnelly's word) to serve properly in our armed services.

As a lesbian and former employee of the Department of Defense (civilian), I would take protection and service from a uniformed gay man or lesbian ANY DAY over that of a "privileged" Caucasian heterosexual man -- because those who serve in silence are truly there out of duty to their country, even when being honest about who they are as a person would mean the loss of their ability to do so.

[americansolider3 0]

I also watched the coverage and the 90 year old black male who described the segregation during the 40's and 50's and how black soliers have assimilated into the military. I can tell you from expierence that black soldiers still face obstacles and are not treated with respect from other soldiers. Now if black soldiers recieve this sort of treatment now going on 50yrs what makes america think gays will recive fair or equal treatment. This I know if gays are allowed to openly volunteer into the military they will recieve the harshest discrimination, more than any other soldier.

[UnbelievableFL]

americansolider30 wrote:

I also watched the coverage and the 90 year old black male who described the segregation during the 40's and 50's and how black soliers have assimilated into the military. I can tell you from expierence that black soldiers still face obstacles and are not treated with respect from other soldiers. Now if black soldiers recieve this sort of treatment now going on 50yrs what makes america think gays will recive fair or equal treatment. This I know if gays are allowed to openly volunteer into the military they will recieve the harshest discrimination, more than any other soldier.

The solution is to punish the bigots who mistreat black and gay soldiers. After all, your solution indicates we should keep black men out of the military as well as gay men.

[devons]

americansolider30 wrote:

I also watched the coverage and the 90 year old black male who described the segregation during the 40's and 50's and how black soliers have assimilated into the military. I can tell you from expierence that black soldiers still face obstacles and are not treated with respect from other soldiers. Now if black soldiers recieve this sort of treatment now going on 50yrs what makes america think gays will recive fair or equal treatment. This I know if gays are allowed to openly volunteer into the military they will recieve the harshest discrimination, more than any other soldier.

Discrimination is nothing new to a homosexual nor is the threat of any backlash. If everyone gave into the fear that comes with standing up for one's rights the only people with rights would be white males that owned land.

[americansolider3 0]

UnbelievableFL wrote:

<quoted text>
The solution is to punish the bigots who mistreat black and gay soldiers. After all, your solution indicates we should keep black men out of the military as well as gay men.

Well there you go take a piece of writing and put it in your own quote. I never said that blacks should not be in the military as matter of fact my battle buddy was black and I'm hispanic. I just seen the way Marines treated some of the black soldiers and the black veteran on cnn stated basically that if blacks can assimilate so can gays. The soldier who was a former ranger explained that thier are too many obsticales gays would have to overcome to lift the " don't as don't tell" ruling.

[americansolider3 0]

devons wrote:

<quoted text>
Discrimination is nothing new to a homosexual nor is the threat of any backlash. If everyone gave into the fear that comes with standing up for one's rights the only people with rights would be white males that owned land.

What fear? No one said they are scared of gays. I just would not want to think about showering inches away from a fellow soldier who I know is checking me out. Or having to share a shelter half with a gay soldier.

[kooky]

americansolider30 wrote:

I also watched the coverage and the 90 year old black male who described the segregation during the 40's and 50's and how black soliers have assimilated into the military. I can tell you from expierence that black soldiers still face obstacles and are not treated with respect from other soldiers. Now if black soldiers recieve this sort of treatment now going on 50yrs what makes america think gays will recive fair or equal treatment. This I know if gays are allowed to openly volunteer into the military they will recieve the harshest discrimination, more than any other soldier.

All the more reason for us to keep on fighting. No one ever said our fight for equality would be easy or swift. If you're trying to discourage, you've only encouraged me to take a more active stance. Thanx

[kooky]

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
What fear? No one said they are scared of gays. I just would not want to think about showering inches away from a fellow soldier who I know is checking me out. Or having to share a shelter half with a gay soldier.

Well then, it does sound as if you are afraid.

[blasterboy1984]

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
What fear? No one said they are scared of gays. I just would not want to think about showering inches away from a fellow soldier who I know is checking me out. Or having to share a shelter half with a gay soldier.

Why is it that every straight guy automatically assumes that every gay guy out there is checking them out? Is that how they treat women?

[UnbelievableFL]

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
Well there you go take a piece of writing and put it in your own quote. I never said that blacks should not be in the military as matter of fact my battle buddy was black and I'm hispanic. I just seen the way Marines treated some of the black soldiers and the black veteran on cnn stated basically that if blacks can assimilate so can gays. The soldier who was a former ranger explained that thier are too many obsticales gays would have to overcome to lift the " don't as don't tell" ruling.

I understand you never said that specifically, but if you follow the logic you are using to exclude gays from serving, that is the only logical conclusion to your argument. You indicated that gays should be excluded from serving openly because they may be discriminated against by fellow soldiers. You pointed to the fact that black soldiers are still discriminated against. Hence, if a group should be excluded because they are likely to be discriminated against, that would include blacks as well.(That is, if you are consistent with your logic.)

I understand you don't believe blacks should be kept out of the military, that they have been able to integrate into the military without major issues. When there are problems, kick out the bigots targeting the black soldiers. Why do you believe the same policy would not work with gay soldiers?

If you are consistent, you either punish the group that will be discriminated against by keeping them from serving, or you punish the bigots for discriminating against the group. Which do you think makes more sense?

[devons]

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
What fear? No one said they are scared of gays. I just would not want to think about showering inches away from a fellow soldier who I know is checking me out. Or having to share a shelter half with a gay soldier.

You read my post wrong. I was speaking of facing the fear that comes with standing up for one's rights.

If you were near a gay in the shower what you fear is him checking you out. So in fact there is fear. I expect more from those serving our country and supposedly protecting. I would admire gays much more for facing what they have to face by coming out and serving openly. That is demonstrating bravery. It sounds so much more brave then those making up excuses as to why they can't serve with gays being honest about themselves.

[americansolider3 0]

devons wrote:

<quoted text>
You read my post wrong. I was speaking of facing the fear that comes with standing up for one's rights.
If you were near a gay in the shower what you fear is him checking you out. So in fact there is fear. I expect more from those serving our country and supposedly protecting. I would admire gays much more for facing what they have to face by coming out and serving openly. That is demonstrating bravery. It sounds so much more brave then those making up excuses as to why they can't serve with gays being honest about themselves.

Well lets see my fear is not for someone checking me out in the shower it is for the one doing the checking. As far as wanting to serve with gays, no I do not want to serve with them. Their way too many situations that call for close contact or close quartes and having a gay soldier would impede on the task.

[UnbelievableFL]

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
Well lets see my fear is not for someone checking me out in the shower it is for the one doing the checking...

So you believe you are doing gays a FAVOR by refusing to allow them to serve openly. You are simply protecting them from harm. How noble of you! <sarcasm>

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
As far as wanting to serve with gays, no I do not want to serve with them. Their way too many situations that call for close contact or close quartes and having a gay soldier would impede on the task.

DADT as a policy already acknowledges that there are gays serving in the military. You are already (or were) serving with gay people in close quarters.

[devons]

americansolider30 wrote:

<quoted text>
Well lets see my fear is not for someone checking me out in the shower it is for the one doing the checking. As far as wanting to serve with gays, no I do not want to serve with them. Their way too many situations that call for close contact or close quartes and having a gay soldier would impede on the task.

See? Fear. It's pretty clear and the more you go on the more fearful you appear.