Think homosexuality is "wrong"?

This is the scene from the TV series "The West Wing"

[Hesed]

It's not a matter of thinking something is right or wrong.

It's a matter of what God has said.

It is abundantly clear from the Bible that any type of sexual contact outside of marriage (man to woman) is wrong.

Sure, we might get around people who say our sexual choices, escapades, etc are okay, but right and wrong aren't relative.

Right and wrong is black and white.

Homosexuality is wrong.

[Marameo]

I Think omosexuality is a natural expression of sexuality, we never remember how many animals has omosexual partner.(Dolphins, monkey, tiger, pinguin...and so on..)
For the society is difficult to accept minority, but doesn't means is worng.

[Tre H]

It is neither right nor wrong. It is neutral.

[Natalia]

Hesed wrote:

It is abundantly clear from the Bible that any type of sexual contact outside of marriage (man to woman) is wrong.

Right, except in cases where a man dies before he has children, in which case the man's brothers are obligated to take turns having sex with their dead brother's wife (the wife doesn't get a say in this, by the way) until they get her pregnant, so she can bear her deceased husband an heir.

That's new testament, by the way. MARK 12:19-27.

But yes, you're right, we should all live by biblical law. You don't mind your brothers raping your wife after you die, right? I mean, anything to keep those sin-loving homos away...

[Hesed]

Natalia wrote:

<quoted text>
Right, except in cases where a man dies before he has children, in which case the man's brothers are obligated to take turns having sex with their dead brother's wife (the wife doesn't get a say in this, by the way) until they get her pregnant, so she can bear her deceased husband an heir.
That's new testament, by the way. MARK 12:19-27.
But yes, you're right, we should all live by biblical law. You don't mind your brothers raping your wife after you die, right? I mean, anything to keep those sin-loving homos away...

There is nothing, besides already being married, that would keep a brother from marrying a deceased brother's wife.

Nothing wrong with that.

I guess you didn't notice that they married her in the hypothetical example the Sadducees gave in that Mark 12 passage?

[Dove]

Actually, right and wrong ARE relative. But you can only see that from the outside. Individually, we each have our own sense of right and wrong but we're all different. Even among those who follow a set doctrine, such as following the Bible, will often disagree on interpretation. We even each change our own views of what is right and wrong over the course of our lives. What we believe is right when we are young we may learn is wrong as we mature, or vice-versa.

So right and wrong are very much relative. That's why we humans disagree so much.

[Natalia]

Hesed wrote:

<quoted text>
There is nothing, besides already being married, that would keep a brother from marrying a deceased brother's wife.
Nothing wrong with that.
I guess you didn't notice that they married her in the hypothetical example the Sadducees gave in that Mark 12 passage?

Oh, they married her first? Guess that's okay then.

You're completely missing the point:

"If a man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother."

Do you believe we should live by that? If a woman's husband dies, should she be required to marry and have sex with his brother? It's in the bible. Right and wrong is black and white. You said that yourself.

Or do we only have to follow the parts of the bible that correspond to your narrow-minded viewpoint and never mind about the rest?

[Joey Lee]

Insane! Your comments are so prudish, so self-interpreted it's ridiculous. To even think that homosexuality is a "choice" is so ridiculous. I am gay, do you actually think I woke up one morning and said"Gee, I think I will go and have sex with men and be gay!?" Yes, the choice to be ridiculed, to be excluded my the majority of society, beaten by school bullies, denied civil and basic human rights, one hell of a choice, eh?

What day was it that you chose to be heterosexual, just curious?

[Shane]

Hesed wrote:

<quoted text>
There is nothing, besides already being married, that would keep a brother from marrying a deceased brother's wife.
Nothing wrong with that.
I guess you didn't notice that they married her in the hypothetical example the Sadducees gave in that Mark 12 passage?

1. The "Bible" was passed down for generations by word, since most of the population was illiterate at the time. All the "letters" that the apostles wrote were actually written down for them, because they could not read nor write.

2. Finally, when the "Bible" was written down, it was scribed and copied by monks who took their own interoperation of the text in a language which has lots of problems with direct translation.

3. Once the "Bible" was translated in to English, it was translated from a language that did not have punctuation, so when the "divinely" inspired authors translated, that made their own decisions about the punctuation, which, if you know anything at all, you know you can take a sentence, change where the punctuation is and you have completely changed the meaning of the text.

4. There are so many things in the "Bible" which are clearly written to address the issues of the time, such as being able to own slaves, wives as property, murder in the name of God, and so many other wonderful little ditties.

5. Some Pope, on his own, decided what went into the "Bible" or not. There are so many books that were left out which did not uphold the "image" That this Pope wanted for the Christian Faith. This was one of the first "spin" tactics by the Church. Such examples would be the placement of Mary Magdalene's mentions. They specifically placed it directly after they spoke of a prostitute, so that we would make the assumption that Mary Magdalene was a whore, when in fact, she was not. She was a wealthy woman that became Jesus' most trusted disciple, but we could not have that, because she was a woman.

6. During the time that the "Bible" was written, the only definition of homosexuality, the only concept that they understood at that time was the relationship between old men and boys, left over from the Greeks. They had no concept or social understanding of a committed relationship between two consenting adults. They were not speaking of homosexual relationships as we know them, they were referring to child abuse.

7. When the "bible" was written and finalized and bastardized to fit the needs of those in power, THAT DID NOT MEAN THAT GOD STOPPED TALKING.

If you think for one moment that I am going to feel like I am doomed to "Hell" some ridiculous concoction created to scare people into submission of the church, then you obviously don't understand the teachings of Christ at all. I am a very good person, my partner is a wonderful human being and together, we live a life of love, charity and good works.

Why don't you try to stop blindly quoting something and take the time to understand where that came from. Understand how the "Bible" actually came in to existence, look at the corruption of people who try to literally read the bible as some arsenal of weapons aimed at what they don't understand or what they are afraid of in themselves.

Why don't you concentrate on the one really good thing that came out of the bible, treat others as you would like to be treated, so, unless you want your natural and American rights discussed by other closed minded people like yourself, I would suggest that you do a little more research and a little less vomiting at the mouth.

[Ralph]

Since no one else has mentioned the TV clip, I will. It was probably the finest moment on the series, for me. I have met so many tight-a** people like that woman in my lifetime (and here on this forum, too), that I actually cheered when this segment ended. I taped all the episodes of that program, and this is the one that I kept. If only we could have a President that actually thought and spoke as he did, not just on homosexually, but on other problems as well.

[Ralph]

I used the word problems in that last sentence. It should have been subjects. Homosexuallity is NOT a problem. christofacism is.

[Hesed]

Natalia wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh, they married her first? Guess that's okay then.
You're completely missing the point:
"If a man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother."
Do you believe we should live by that? If a woman's husband dies, should she be required to marry and have sex with his brother? It's in the bible. Right and wrong is black and white. You said that yourself.
Or do we only have to follow the parts of the bible that correspond to your narrow-minded viewpoint and never mind about the rest?

Yes, if you are married, it is okay to have sex. Duh!

I believe that was and may still be the observances of the Jews.

I'm not a Jew, yet I do not see any problem with marrying your brother's wife so that his family will continue.

What's your point? That because we don't hear much of that in our society, that it's somehow wrong or ignored?

[Hesed]

Joey Lee wrote:

Insane! Your comments are so prudish, so self-interpreted it's ridiculous. To even think that homosexuality is a "choice" is so ridiculous. I am gay, do you actually think I woke up one morning and said"Gee, I think I will go and have sex with men and be gay!?" Yes, the choice to be ridiculed, to be excluded my the majority of society, beaten by school bullies, denied civil and basic human rights, one hell of a choice, eh?
What day was it that you chose to be heterosexual, just curious?

Yep, the sin of homosexuality, as with any sin is just a choice.

And no, submitting one's self to ridicule and scorn doesn't prove it's anything beyond just a choice to do wrong.

[OneBallBoi]

I know what the Bible says. I know that is inspired. Which means that it was breathed by God into the writers minds. But I also know that homosexuality is not a choice. Either you are attracted to men or your not. So you have to find some way of making peace so to speak with God. For me, it was becoming a Eunuch. For others, it can be something far different. I am still attracted to men and not women. The lack of Testrosome in my body did not change that. But I have peace with God that I am not violating his laws.

[Hesed]

Shane wrote:

<quoted text>
1. The "Bible" was ....

Sorry, wrong.

You might want to do some simple research about the Bible.

The book, Evidence That Demands A Verdict, is a good, simplistic discussion of the merits/challenges with the authenticity and historicity of the article.

A lawyer who tried to disprove the Bible is found at http://www.leestrobel.com/videoserver/video.p...

It suffices to say you know little about either the authenticity or historicity of the Bible, whether speaking of the facts about the Bible, or the facts about those who penned the Bible.

After you do a little research, and have a little understanding, you will see how ludicrous and lame your lame arguments are.

Until then, you are dismissed.

[nhjeff]

Hesed: Aside from your arrogant protests that your interpretation of the Bible is the one and only truth, I find particularly apalling your inability to respect other members of the community who do not consider themselves Christian-Judaic. You keep spitting out Bible verses to prove your points, and those verses prove nothing to 70% of the world that doesn't consider the Bible to be either Holy or infallible. I have no problem with your intent to structure your own life around this collection of stories, but please show respect to those of us who don't. Being "christian" is your choice. Being gay is part of my creation. Your god commanded you to love your neighbor, not to condemn them. If if makes you feel better about your wretched life, make a tape or yourself screaming epithets and play it in the privacy of your own home.

Hesed wrote:

It's not a matter of thinking something is right or wrong.
It's a matter of what God has said.
It is abundantly clear from the Bible that any type of sexual contact outside of marriage (man to woman) is wrong.
Sure, we might get around people who say our sexual choices, escapades, etc are okay, but right and wrong aren't relative.
Right and wrong is black and white.
Homosexuality is wrong.

[Hesed]

Ralph wrote:

Since no one else has mentioned the TV clip, I will. It was probably the finest moment on the series, for me. I have met so many tight-a** people like that woman in my lifetime (and here on this forum, too), that I actually cheered when this segment ended. I taped all the episodes of that program, and this is the one that I kept. If only we could have a President that actually thought and spoke as he did, not just on homosexually, but on other problems as well.

OOOOH, goody goody. We're happy you have copies of the episodes.

That changes nothing.

Unless you repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ, you will not have eternal life, and will await the Judgment Day.

[lynofoz]

Hesed wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, if you are married, it is okay to have sex. Duh!
I believe that was and may still be the observances of the Jews.
I'm not a Jew, yet I do not see any problem with marrying your brother's wife so that his family will continue.
What's your point? That because we don't hear much of that in our society, that it's somehow wrong or ignored?

You're STILL missing Natalia's point, which just affirms how narrow-minded you are!

[nhjeff]

Hesed wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, if you are married, it is okay to have sex. Duh!
I believe that was and may still be the observances of the Jews.
I'm not a Jew, yet I do not see any problem with marrying your brother's wife so that his family will continue.
What's your point? That because we don't hear much of that in our society, that it's somehow wrong or ignored?

Those must be the same Jews that I heard had have horns on the back of their heads. The Jews I know respect women's bodies, minds, and souls.

This is the first time I realized you disrespect women almost as much as you disrespect homosexuals! Hesed: You are nothing but a misogynistic homophobe misusing the Bible to support your bigotry.

[Natalia]

Hesed wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, if you are married, it is okay to have sex. Duh!
I believe that was and may still be the observances of the Jews.
I'm not a Jew, yet I do not see any problem with marrying your brother's wife so that his family will continue.
What's your point? That because we don't hear much of that in our society, that it's somehow wrong or ignored?

Okay, you have missed the point by so large a margin I don't even know where to start with that. I mean, I try not to expect too much by way of reason and logic from you fundamentalist wingnuts, but seriously, you've just taken idiotic to a whole new level. Congratulations.