Evolutionists fear academic freedom

Celebrate the courage of Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal in the fight for freedom. He has shown tremendous courage in signing the Louisiana Science Education Bill, an important blow for academic freedom.

[Matt from Akron]

ROTFLMAO

[Drew Smith]

I wasn't aware that "being courageous" was a new synonym for "pandering".

[Fort Myers]

The atheist religion has taken over a large portion of the government, including the schools.

[BuncCyBapt]

What would be the scientific theory which tends to oppose or refute the theory of evolution, for which there is observable data? And should be taught in public schools?

Somebody state it here. Susan? Jumbubba?

[BuncCyBapt]

I posted to this thread and the post just disappeared.

Could somebody pose the counter-argument to evolution, i. e., one based on empiricism?

Susan? Jumbubba?

[Bluenose]

Actually, if the bill meant what these twinks say it does, I can see it now:

Teacher: OK class, in the spirit of critical thinking, we will now discuss all the scientific evidence against evolution. <short pause> Yes, that's right class, there is NO scientific evidence against evolution.

Now, for the rest of the year, we will discuss a very small proporrtion of the vast amount of scientific evidence supporting evolution...

[James Cassara]

What nonsense. Should we now allow the teaching of astrology and alchemy under the guise of "academic freedom"?

[TheGavin]

Drew Smith wrote:

I wasn't aware that "being courageous" was a new synonym for "pandering".

Nor being able to challenge evidence based reality.

It's absolutely insane that "evidence" ACTUAL "evidence" isn't just questioned...it's treated as completely irrelevant and all together a "sorta maybe, but not quite".

Fossils? Just interpretation. Genomes? Blah. Geology? Eh. Modern Medicine? We would have made the same discoverys anyway.

I guess if you're in league with the people who'd like to see reality literally pushed aside, appealing to common sense will have little impact.

[Bud]

Wow

[TedHOhio]

James Cassara wrote:

What nonsense. Should we now allow the teaching of astrology and alchemy under the guise of "academic freedom"?

Yup, I am hoping my wife gets a job teaching Feng Shui. I mean if I have to listen to that crap at home, she might as well make some money with it!

[Z_SKI_]

BuncCyBapt wrote:

What would be the scientific theory which tends to oppose or refute the theory of evolution, for which there is observable data? And should be taught in public schools?
Somebody state it here. Susan? Jumbubba?

.. That no matter what we have done to fruitfly genes, we have never gotten a frog. In fact we have only gotten bad fruitflies. People forget evolution is a THEORY, and not a LAW. If there was observable data, that could be reproduced over and over, it would be made the Law of Evolution. Like the Laws of Gravity and Motion. Theory is only a guess and needs more constitant results to be declared a Law.

[Drew Smith]

Fort Myers wrote:

The atheist religion has taken over a large portion of the government, including the schools.

There is no "atheist religion".

[Drew Smith]

Z_SKI_ wrote:

<quoted text>.. That no matter what we have done to fruitfly genes, we have never gotten a frog.

Nor would we expect to, since that isn't what the theory of evolution says.

***

Z_SKI_ wrote:

People forget evolution is a THEORY, and not a LAW.

People forget that the words "theory" and "law", as used in science, do not mean what they mean in ordinary language. For instance, evolution is a scientific fact, and is explained by the theory of evolution (by natural selection).

***

Z_SKI_ wrote:

If there was observable data, that could be reproduced over and over, it would be made the Law of Evolution. Like the Laws of Gravity and Motion.

No, it wouldn't. First, there is indeed observable data that can be reproduced over and over (such as when fossils keep being found in the same rock strata, which can reproducibly dated to the same range of dates millions of years ago). Second, a "law" in science is something that can be represented by a simple equation. The "laws of gravity and motion" aren't laws on the basis that they can be reproduced, but instead that they can be modeled by simple formulas.

***

Z_SKI_ wrote:

Theory is only a guess

Not in science. In science, a theory is an *explanation* that accounts for what is observed. The theory of evolution does.

[bottlecap]

BuncCyBapt wrote:

I posted to this thread and the post just disappeared.
Could somebody pose the counter-argument to evolution, i. e., one based on empiricism?
Susan? Jumbubba?

Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.

Look how the Liberal Fascists, led by the MSM elected Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, are trying to shove their ANTI-FREE SPEECH bill, "the Fairness Doctrine" down the throats of the American People.

[Lion King]

bottlecap wrote:

<quoted text>
Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.
Look how the Liberal Fascists, led by the MSM elected Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, are trying to shove their ANTI-FREE SPEECH bill, "the Fairness Doctrine" down the throats of the American People.

My folks shoulda ate 'em all. Look at all the trouble that woulda been avoided if us lions had done our job.

[TedHOhio]

bottlecap wrote:

<quoted text>
Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.
Look how the Liberal Fascists, led by the MSM elected Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, are trying to shove their ANTI-FREE SPEECH bill, "the Fairness Doctrine" down the throats of the American People.

Not true! Christians have the ability to state their case in school. What they have not been allowed to do is state their case in science class because their case is not scientific. We don't teach Math in English class, we should not teach Theology in Science class. That's what the whole Dover trial was about, and that lead to this despicable tactic hidden under the innocuous sounding words "Academic Freedom". I am a teacher and I have the Academic Freedom to bring anything related to my area of expertise into the classroom that I want to. Even controversial topics -- and believe me, when we talk about ethics we get into some doozies!

But what I do not have is the freedom to bring my belief system in and abuse my position as a teacher by teaching it. I teach Computer Science and teaching my belief system would not be an exercise in academic freedom.

However in Louisiana that is no longer the case. Based on the wording of the law I can teach my belief system and you will not be able to stop me. So if another teacher decides to teach Astrology in an English class, you can't stop it. I can't wait until I see a Gym Teacher discussing the benefits of being Gay with their charges. Oh Louisiana is going to have so much fun with this one!

I don't fear honest academic freedom, but that's not what this things the State of Louisiana has passed has little to do with it.

[llDayo]

bottlecap wrote:

<quoted text>
Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.
Look how the Liberal Fascists, led by the MSM elected Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, are trying to shove their ANTI-FREE SPEECH bill, "the Fairness Doctrine" down the throats of the American People.

Christians have been stating their case for 2000 years but have never provided evidence that their's is correct. Scientists, on the other hand, base their cases on the evidence. They start with what we know and develop theories from it. Creationists start with their beliefs and then try to shove evidence into it while ignoring evidence that contradicts it.

[BuncCyBapt]

bottlecap wrote:

<quoted text>
Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.
.

How about giving us a thumbnail sketch of your case right here, my fundy friend?

[MIDutch]

bottlecap wrote:

<quoted text>
Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.

Madame/Mr. Bottlecap, pardon me for asking, but have the police closed down your church and arrested your pastor for lying about evolution? Have the cable networks taken the 700 Club off of the air? Are seemingly half of all of the AM radio stations still "christian" radio? Have YOU or anyone you know ever been questioned or threatened by a black suit government agent about "anti science" activities?

So who, exactly, has been denying "the right to state their [creationists] case"? "creation science" has been saying this exact same thing for the past 150 years. "creation science" has had the opportunity to state their case for the past 2000+ years. What do they have to show for it.

The problem, as I see it, is that "creation science" DOES NOT HAVE a case. There is NO research. There is NO viable hypothesis. There is NO "creation science" theory.

But if you scream CONSPIRACY loud enough and long enough you can probably convince the tithings in the pews that there is some science in it. Throw out a few scientific sounding words, a few glitzy posters, a few "research papers" from "creation science institutes", mix in a few Dr. Dinos, and the average church goers will literally buy into it because it "validates" their particular interpretation of their holy book, makes them feel good about themselves, and insures that THEY are the ones going to heaven, as opposed to us "evilutionists".

"fundamentalist christians" always like to point out that Christianity enjoys a massive statistical majority here in the United States, upwards of 80%, and yet claim to be a persecuted minority at the same time. Poor old "fundy christians". Tragic that no one will let them stomp all over the US Constitution and all the rest of us who don't happen to agree with them in either our science or our religion in general and our Christianity in particular.

[Drew Smith]

bottlecap wrote:

Academic Freedom for Evolutionists?? They can't be serious. It is the Christians who have been denied the right to state their case.

Over 11,000 U.S. Christian clergy have stated their case without a problem. They've stated that they see no problem with evolution.(So this isn't a "Christian vs. evolution" issue.)