Send a Message
to Traumtanzer

Comments

2,186

Joined

Jul 24, 2007

Traumtanzer's Favorites

Traumtanzer Profile

Forums Owned

Recent Posts

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Now, here's the issue. The Jewish are STILL debating this verse in Leviticus, and it's their book after all, remember, not only do they take great pains not only to copy and maintain every word, but even every mark on the page, how the letters were written, they even maintain the language to make sure that they can not only read it as it was originally written, but understand it as well. I have no end of respect for the dedication they put to their religion. The problem with the first verse is in the way that it's written, besides it's possible meanings in the words used at the time it was written, there is a crucial conjunction missing, and how you fill in that conjunction and interpret the verse can drastically change it's meaning. The second verse is simply a restatement of the original law in a section that goes back over punishments for the various transgressions listed before. For all the turmoil surrounding this subject today, you'd think there would be hundreds of verses to fall back on with this subject, but really, there are very few, and if you take the time to go back and research the translations and original text, you'll find that each of those has problems and comes down to interpretation. Do you really think that it is wise to base something as important as another person's freedom, and the integrity of a faith you believe in, on something as flimsy as an interpretation that can be shown to have such flaws? Because that is right were things are right now, people are suffering for this, and the church has pressed the position to the point that it's now breaking in half under the weight of it.  (Dec 7, 2010 | post #29420)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

I'll let my own posts stand in regards to yours, and people can take from them what they will. Intellectually, you're at a disadvantage in this discussion, you are bound by the writ of the bible. I, and others, have shown where interpretation and translation are questionable, and have shown how one of the fathers of your doctrine said himself that he's only able to judge those in the church by the church's law. If you're going to come here and argue a point, then I will judge you on the merits of your argument (oh no, I'm judging!), and if you say something stupid, particularly if it verges on the monumentally stupid or hypocritical, I'll generally speak up, and like I said, I can be a snarky bastard at times. Reap what you sow, Matt, you get back what you give, if you want to discuss the merits of your beliefs, no worries, it's one of the reasons I'm here, an exchange of ideas, whether one agrees with them or not. But, every post, over and over, you ignore or deride any concept you don't agree with, and personally attack every person as a liar or deceiver, rarely making any real attempt to counter or explain the point. You attack and attack, you don't discuss, and you're outraged that people throw it back in your face? Yes, I laugh, though not at your beliefs, but at the irony of it all, but, then, as I said, I'm a cynic (mispelled in my last post I think), and a SB (see above). But, then, I'm sad, too, because you just can't see it, you don't get it, and you're so fixed in your certainty of being Right that it feels like you'll never grow, be it in your own belief system or outside of it.  (Mar 23, 2010 | post #18315)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Heh, no, I don't think you ever understood why I tend to hang around and discuss some of this. First, I am not a person of faith, for me to believe something, I have to understand it. And my view of the world and reality is not someting that is set in stone, it can, and does, change as my understanding grows. Talking about those beliefs helps to turn them over, re-examine and better understand them, so that's part of what I get out of this place. I don't care what you and others like you believe, I don't even care what some people have hidden away in their closets (yes, I got the reference about figurative closets and euphemistic bones), people will believe what they believe, for the reasons that drive them, and what Paul said is wise whether you take a religious stand or not, who am I to judge? Where I take exception is when someone attempts to take their view and their beliefs and attempt to force that perspective on someone else. There is a difference between saying 'I think this is wrong' and saying 'You are wrong'.. That's generally the distinction I was making between you and Travis recently, Travis, outside of when he's upset, generally argues from the standpoint of what he believes, and while I may not disagree with his view, to me he has every right to what he feels. He doesn't usually accuse or judge someone else's actions or views, but rather talks about the concept itself. This distinction is very important in the world today, it is both why churches are safe to believe whatever they want to believe despite the laws that may be passed, and it's also what tends to scare certain types of people the most. Laws interfere with those who would apply their belief onto others. The hypocrisy that lies at the heart of some of these arguments astounds me, that the very people who would vote to try to curtail the rights of others with amendments and laws can so easily talk out the other side of their mouths about laws infringing on their own beliefs. I raise my voice in places like this in support of people who are trying to live and believe as they need to be happy, who want the same right and protection to pursue their own happiness. However, there is self interest in this, too. As I've said before, homosexuality and same sex marriage are pretty low on the list of biblical rules. Some people just can't handle defiance of their own beliefs by another. For one reason or another, they feel this diminishes them and their faith. However, it's a dangerous attitude. I believe that homosexuals are right in their fight for their freedom and rights, I also believe that the attitude displayed by some churches and religious people is dangerous, if this attitude is allowed to stand, what will they push for next. Laws should, and must, be to protect from direct and real harm, not to protect an ideaology, or to force it onto another. What you must understand is that, if someone were pushing to proclaim by law that what you believe is wrong, I'd stand against that concept just the same, regardless of if I agreed with your beliefs. To me, it's the basic foundation this country was built on. Now, I have said some things to, and about you directly, and to me, anything I say here is my opinion, it should go without saying. What you should understand is that I respect your beliefs, your entitle to your opinion, but your argumentative skills, and how you try to apply those beliefs onto others, that I'll generally counter. And, while I've never truely been able to contain my sarcasm and synycism entirely, very rarely is there ever true anger or malice. I'm just a snarky bastard sometimes, and I don't have much patience with true intollerance and hate, or willful ignorance.  (Mar 23, 2010 | post #18313)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Heh, this post was hilarious to read, the plank in your eye has grown to the point you can see nothing else, I think it's grown so large it's putting pressure on your brain. You would twist the message to whatever ends justify your view, then accuse others of twisting the message.. The arrogance..the ego..the hypocrisy.. That you would describe your own self so aptly and not even see it..I don't know whether to laugh or cry, it's so funny and tragic at the same time.. You've set yourself up as the Judge of Truth, you will brook no view save your own.. However, I do not think that your 'pedestal' is made of the material you think it is.  (Mar 23, 2010 | post #18300)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

And, they're ususally trying to convince themselves far more than anyone else. (Not to mention that they dare not open the closet, all the skeletons would fall out...)  (Mar 22, 2010 | post #18295)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Heh, sometimes when a newbie comes in and posts their introductory rant, I can't help hearing Christopher Lloyd in Roger Rabbit; 'When I killed your brother, I talked just LIKE THIS!!'  (Mar 22, 2010 | post #18294)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

PING Acknowledged. *PONG*  (Mar 22, 2010 | post #18175)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

The wisdom, of course, is in actually understanding what is fact and what is opinion.  (Mar 22, 2010 | post #18173)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent — it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills." --Robert Heinlein, Notebooks of Lazarus Long (Time Enough for Love)  (Mar 22, 2010 | post #18172)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Travis L Morgan wrote: You like my hat...how nice of you...lol Btw, I have African-American in my family, so I will keep it real fa' sho'.... You replied: That explains your IQ.  (Mar 21, 2010 | post #18035)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Sorry, REALLY going to have to disagree with you on this one.. I can't recall Matt ever putting forward a legitimate argument, the majority of this posts are the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'lalalalala! I can't hear you!', the rest are calling anyone he disagrees with a liar or dishonest and never..EVER backing it up with anything save his own hubris that he must be Right.. If you want to go back and point out where he's put forward something other than the above two categories, I'd be interested in seeing it. For the most part, I don't have any problem with disagreeing viewpoints, hell, if you and I met RL, I'd happily go out and buy you a beer, even if you tend to push things sometimes when you get upset.. But people like MattJ and Betsy, that's just twisted hate and ego, and I doubt they could see past it, even if they wanted to.  (Mar 21, 2010 | post #18032)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

That's a pretty ugly and racist comment...  (Mar 21, 2010 | post #18030)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Ooops, getting my P's mixed up this morning, sorry, been up all night trying to put a plan together to overhaul this network down from 5 cities to 1 central location..sheesh..probably couldn't add two and two by this point..  (Mar 21, 2010 | post #18028)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

PSsst...Matt...you're being irresponsible and dishonest again...  (Mar 21, 2010 | post #18026)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

Well, they do keep trying to insist that it's a choice, after all. :)  (Mar 21, 2010 | post #18025)

Q & A with Traumtanzer

Headline:

He's just this guy, y'know?

Hometown:

Dallas, TX

Neighborhood:

Down the street

Local Favorites:

Cosmic Cup Cafe

I Belong To:

Myself

When I'm Not on Topix:

I'm -EVERYWHERE-

Read My Forum Posts Because:

They enlighten me, perhaps you, too.

I'm Listening To:

Fatboy Slim - That Old Pair of

Read This Book:

To many come to mind

Favorite Things:

Motorcycle riding (vtx 1300c) Internet in all it's diversity and perversity

On My Mind:

Love, life..Hey, is it dinner time yet?

I Believe In:

What I believe in..it's not a fixed thing, as I learn and grow, so it does as well.