Dec 28, 2013
1. yet the two can contradict and do. The instructions are not immutable, and neither are the interpretations. 2. So then no one can say, or rather accuse, that a mans "questionable nature" is wrong. If the God is using said men to his own ends, no other human can cast aspersions on those man's natures. (Mar 1, 2015 | post #10)
Yet so is the Christian God, subject to these influences. This Gods "truth" varies as well. Are you implying that there is ONE and only one interpretation of the Bible? (Mar 1, 2015 | post #9)
Its not simply to Choose what we want to do? But should do, could do, might do, etc...consciously at all times. Free-will in the Judeo-Christian tradition is about making right and proper choices all the time and doing it consciously, by weighing options and figuring out the right and only choice - that will please the God. Which if you actually delve into it doesnt always mean doing the truly right and moral thing. Religions demand doing what pleases the God, not what serves the best interests of the individual or the collective. Simple question to ask yourself. Is something right or wrong because the God says it is, or because the thing is right or wrong all by itself? (Mar 1, 2015 | post #18)
page count? That matters to this God? Where does he say this? Where does the bible God mention the proper page count? Where does he even mention the Bible? (Mar 1, 2015 | post #17)
Now please show us and prove that we know what this or any God has ever said? What God/s has allegedly said has always come from the mouths of men. (with a few females thrown in for good measure) No one has a tape of a God talking, no writings of any God have ever been put forth, no one has ever seen this or any God, no pictures, no film, not even any reality based drawings...its all men making claims. Nothing more. Men claiming to speak for and in the name of Gods - is not the Gods speaking on their own behalf. And relying on men, is perhaps the worst means to get their true message out. Relying on fallible and self-aggrandizing men has never served humanity well - in this case. (Mar 1, 2015 | post #16)
I need you to expand on the whole Christian cowardice /complacency theme...explain it more. Yes, Religion is formed around human fears, basic anxieties about Life Q's...but its not all of it. Its not truly, IMO, what keeps people bound to it. And sure there are the simple answers, that there's some Plan in place, that there will be some grand rewards, etc - but its not all of it. People hold Religious faith for various reasons...not all of them rational (as seen from the outside) but there is rationality in there for a good many of them. (Mar 1, 2015 | post #44)
Yes, I mentioned 911. Which brought the post WW2-Cold War era to a final close. Sorta. Im not sure about your black and white conclusions...as the US is not the only player on the fields. The US did move towards "better" post WW2...but like all Western nations that have/had so much wealth and resources there was also the bad. And that involved continuing various practices of the older colonial nations. Drawing ridiculous borders in the M.E. and SW Asia, etc...aligning with monarchy's, and various despots to ensure oil and other natural resources would keep flowing, etc. Our brand of nationalism is not the same as Nazi Germany. Not even close. For one in Nazi Germany it was a forced form of it, and 2, there was no real growth in their economy despite all the faux appearances they tried to present...if there was no real war, maybe just some land grabs, etc, Nazi Germany would have gone thru another serious depression, just like they did post WW1, and likely broken apart. US nationalism is not based on true world domination - like Nazi Germany was - but on being a dominate force in the world. The propaganda says its for the Greater Good, but we can argue those details for months and months. I really dont think the invention of Boogey men are driven totally by our Religious influences...sure with Islam it plays a part, as this war is with Islam and its extreme culture, despite what the Islamic apologists want to say, despite what our politicians say - but boogey men have always been a part of our culture. Be they the English, the natives, immigrants, or whomever we fought on the borders here, or out there...the American public sees boogey men even within our ranks. And they can be the gay community, the Hippies of the 60's, Liberals, Academia, or for many now they can be Christian fundamentalists. I think a lot of Americans, not enough yet IMO, and they are mostly young and a tad too apathetic, are seeing how bad an influence that faction has been for our overall health and well being...and as such are pushing back. Not with enough force, but the push back is there. I think the whole thing is too complex to blame one faction, or to continually resort to blaming these conspiracy Cabals...puppet-ma sters are Boogey men too! And the sort of thinking that there are Cabals around every corner, behind every curtain - is gaining way too much air-time in the American culture IMO. These Boogey men are sourced from propaganda too! And they distract and confuse and prevent real dialogue from taking place. (Mar 1, 2015 | post #43)
Im not a fan of making the sweeping claim that all Christians are robots, by simply being Christians. Its too cheap a shot to take, that really doesnt get us anywhere. Beliefs in a Higher Being, a greater cause is not what makes a robot a robot. Not when the robots are capable moderate amounts of self-determination . The American culture is a unique one in the world, in that it truly and deeply clings to the beliefs that everyone in the world wants to be one. Every last person. So either they come here, or they stay home to resist and fight us. Few cultures ever believed that those they conquered where truly glad to see them.At least not in the way America sees itself. Americans deeply believe that every person we make submit, or bend to our will - is ecstatic to see us. Thats not just about the Christian influences. Theres more there to the American Myth of its (self)importance to the world. Which is a recently new phenomenon in our history. Post WW2 is my rough leaping off point...but it goes way back onto our past in its roots. (Feb 28, 2015 | post #36)
That is an interesting stat. I will have to look at the exact details to draw any sort of a conclusion. As to the privacy issue; .Im not so sure its a Christian thing. I think its more the American culture where we adopt new technologies too quickly as long as its presented as a "deal", as something to make life easier, as a "cant live without it" device. Which have always created larger, more complex issues for the nation. Even the something small/silly like household appliances, making "Moms life easier" (so the family could pursue leisure activities) by putting a washer and dryer in every home created a huge demand for energy. which led to more and bigger coal firing energy plants, which led to every suburban home dumping loads of phosphates into the local water sources. Aerosols, cheaper building materials loaded with chemicals that off-gassed and made people sick. Televisions not just in every living room, but every room in the house! Creating more energy needs, more pollution and more landfill issues...exacerbat ed by more advanced electronics. Etc, etc... So along come these hand-held communication devices. Which at first I remember were seen as a dumb idea. Those old brick cell-phones, initially bought/used by a select set of men - that were seen by most people as jerks. That only "look at me" jerks would want to take a phone call in the car, or a public space. But then wham! The things improved practically over night and everyone had one, and no one, few if any of us stopped and considered the impact of those devices on not only our lives (do they really make us happier, ease our lives, make us more productive? I would no to all of them in any significant way) but on the very important American Institution of Personal Privacy. But even when it was learned that each device was a handy little tracking device - few of us balked. We'd already adopted the little buggers(along with the personal home computer) as integral to our lives. Soccer, helicopter Moms especially. Men and women in new dating territory could text their affections at will. Cheaters had a new means to cheat - and all the many others engaged in nefarious activities had a new means to stay (so they thought) off the regular communication grids. The land line was viewed as the unsafe bet! Which the Mafia had already learned to their detriment. So merrily we strolled along, talking, texting, being more inane, becoming public spectacles of rudeness then ever before...till 9-11. Then the happy, little, apathetic, leisure time Americans jumped like scared bunnies down the Patriot Act rabbit hole. "Kill the boogey man Daddy! Kill it and make me sleep easier Daddy! pleeease!" We whined and cried, our leaders happily obliged as it meant no one was looking at how badly they failed in their jobs. How on every plane they failed to do their F'n jobs. And the American people bent over and offered them not only their buttocks, but their necks, and wrists - to slash, bind, or whatever they wished to do to them, and us as a peoples and culture. Im not so sure, in fact I would say no, to blaming it all on Christianity...as a means to blockade any recent and rational and effective means to protect our silly little culture and maybe make things better all around - yes, the fundamentalist Christian voting block must shoulder a great deal of the blame...but not all of it. Since 9-11 and the incursion of technology and its alleged benefits in our lives - anyone firing up a smart phone or laptop, etc is to blame. (Feb 28, 2015 | post #35)
Written when there was no good science to help turn a bad tree around. No good grove owner would simply abandon an ill-producing tree on its first bad harvest. (Barring obvious disease problems) The all or nothing concept is a very flawed Religious belief. You sinned, continue to sin, yes? Of course you do. So by your silly way of thinking, you should have been cut down, and burned for fuel. A long, long time ago. Not even your God falls victim to Matts stupid line of thinking...because he doesnt cut down the bad trees on first harvest...he lets then continue and self-correct. Yes? (Feb 28, 2015 | post #139)
Your faith is derived from, trickled down from centuries of hearsay. So you have no proof of your God. If you do have it, put it on the table for all to see. And a Bible, or quotes from it are not in any way proof. (Feb 28, 2015 | post #386)
Greed is a descriptive term for the means by which someone/group exploits an ideology. Like, Corporatism, capitalism, etc - that sort of stuff. If greed is a wanton collection of wealth and goods, for mere sake of them - then its all part of the driving beliefs WHY such a pursuit would be a good, and desirable path. Any ideology can exhibit greedy tendencies. Such as that which motivates Daesh/ISIS. Many in their ranks are just greedy, or full of want for what they believe the Caliphate will do for them. How many men/boys joining are just out and out losers, even the ones from the West, who would be deemed socio-paths, anti-social, unable to get a girl/woman on their own, cant hold a job, etc, ? And by joining Daesh and helping achieve the much lauded and desired Islamic State/Caliphate - they will reap earthly rewards. To get what they think they deserve - position, power, wealth and the goods that accompany them. I believe its highly possible that IF an extreme group of Christians could do what Daesh is now doing, there would be a lot of support among the more extreme parts of Christianity. Especially in the USA. If there was a sudden take-over of a fair sized town/city in a more remote western US locale, that was done to establish a prophetic fulfilling of a Kingdom Of Jesus/God, there would be great support in the US Christian community. Even if violence was used to establish it... Which is one reason why the LDS, polygamists, etc, who have already established their insular communities, breaking state and federal laws in their claim of Religious freedom, etc...are not rooted out like the US, the West, insists must be done to Daesh. Self determination is not something we in the West and US, are very comfortable with any more... (Feb 28, 2015 | post #30)
Agree. Free-will in the way the Judeo-Xtian-Islami c traditions does not exist. In their POV we choose all things at all times, which any thinking, conscious, educated human knows is not true 95+% of the time. The genetic sciences, and their complimentary disciplines are quickly discovering there is not much about us as individuals that is not biological in origins. Our likes, dislikes (foods, colors, scents, the people we're attracted to, disgusted by,our level of empathy, etc,) are found in/on the human genetic schematics. A thing that we've barely scratched the surface of, and that will likely the more we dig in explain so much more about the human condition. For the individual and the collective. And hopefully in there will be found a means to cure the affliction of Religious zealotry. (Feb 28, 2015 | post #8)
thats not an answer. You quoting anything that doesnt pertain to the question is not a real answer. Do you have any thoughts that you might consider your own? Do you ever think about things other then shoving Bible quotes into peoples faces? Where did Jesus say that the means to evangelize is ONLY spewing quotes? That you must always be speaking in excerpted passages from scripture? (Feb 28, 2015 | post #7)
SnarkHunter..? Uh...thats not me. Actually I, Scurge, was off by very little. I was using the adjective; something not directly expressed. Like a look with meaning behind it. The "meaning of life" is not directly expressed in the human condition. Its a variable open to insertion of definition, by the individual or others. When I give meaning to say a piece of art, its my meaning, could be way off the artists. I give it my meaning, and if the artists intention was for something different...what then? Did he/she fail? Or merely not see there was more meaning then intended...? Whats the meaning of the life that is snuffed out early? To cause pain and sorrow? Was that the intention of that life? Again, if there is meaning to life, your insistence that there is intention behind it is specious at best, and forcing terms on Life at worst. (Feb 22, 2015 | post #48)
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