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Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Aquarius-WY Peace If Jesus is a Gift, then the Gift does remain with the recipient, unless the recipient chooses to ignore or reject the Gift. God does not override one's own free-will to ignore or reject the Gift, after it was given and accepted. It is for this reason that so much of the N.T writings were on how to live a Christian life, and not backslide back into the world. Or in short become an apostate. Peace  (2 hrs ago | post #555785)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

seriously the original Greetings and Peace You pose an interesting question on whether one's belief in once saved by grace, always saved, (more or less) are they saved? There has been much debated on this topic concerning OSAS, but whether such a thing is true or not, depends upon God, and the individual, and not the belief, IMHO. I prefer to think that a person who believes in OSAS, may have the perception that they will always be saved, and then sets up a belief system behind it. This is because of a belief in God's existence, and the feeling of being saved by Jesus Christ. And that God has entered into a personal relationship which cannot be broken.(Paul's description in that nothing can stand between the love of God and the individual.) On the other hand a person who does not believe in OSAS, may have the perception of being saved, and sets up another belief system, upon which one must adhere to being a Christian, in thought, word, and deed, by having an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. In general, I see no problem with either belief systems, except that the first is more prone a sin of pride, which can come about with the idea that God has predestined them to eternal life, when in fact it is a choice of accepting Jesus Christ as Savior. And the second system is prone to inertia, where one's faith is tried beyond what one is capable, and one grows from hot to moderate, and sometimes cold. Of course, I speak for myself, and these are not hard and fast rules. So it is just my humble opinion.... Peace  (3 hrs ago | post #555776)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

NASL Peace It is rather ridiculous to repeat myself, but as I see it, one is complete in Christ, so there is no need to go searching for Him outside the Bible. You apparently have a need to do so. And because of this, you think you have some "secret" knowledge which can be made available at a cost. And the cost is this, that one dilutes the faith in Jesus as God presented in the Bible. It is the "beginning " of the downfall of one's faith in Jesus, as presented in the Bible. So, again it is the temptation out of curiosity, to which you seek others to pursue, as you have done. And for the most part, people are happy where they are at in their faith, and those who seek elsewhere you may influence. But on this forum, I think it is a lost battle for you, IMHO. As for the rest of what you write, I am tempted to make sense out of it, but I find it so reductionist, that I can't make sense out of it, and would probably overstep my bounds in assuming something that may or may not be there. I can say, that you do this with most people who write more than just a sentence or two back to you. Perhaps it has something to do with your own self being fragmented, and you project that onto other people's thoughts(I know you like to portray yourself as self/Self unified, but perhaps this is not the case?) In any event, that last sentence is something for you to think about. No response is necessary.... Peace  (7 hrs ago | post #555753)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

NASL I know that there are some that believe the Bible is God. And perhaps you are trying to see if such people will come over to your way of thinking. But IMHO it is unlikely. Some people do not know how the Bible was assembled, and through all the writings which were available to those who compiled the Bible. Before and afterwards people believe some books should have been included and others left out. But this disregards the basic point that in the Bible is all that is necessary for one to know Jesus, become a Christian, and start following a Christian way of life. So it is not honesty which is in question, it is in a lack to knowledge. But you believe in that knowledge you can penetrate the faith of a believer enough for them to basically throw away all of the Bible, and follow some New Age Spiritualism. Perhaps you mistakenly took this name to imply some new and updated faith into which one can believe in, but for the Christian it raises alarm flags the instant they see it. So they would immediately become defensive, and thus you continue to thrust into their world one which does not belong.... That is just what I have seen, and is my humble opinion. So it is not to be offensive or unfriendly, but perhaps gives you a hint, at why you have so much difficulty with Christians. It is not that they are dishonest, rather that you assault them.... And I know that the written medium is not the best means of communicating, as well....  (Tuesday | post #555575)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Greetings NASL Peace You begin with "It is an incomplete story...." And this is where you begin wrongly, because to the Christian it is complete. You simply reject it as complete and therefore believe others should think likewise. However, as amply shown by the Christians on this forum, though they may personally question their faith in Christ, and things in the Bible they may not thoroughly understand at any one time, they do eventually, if they persist. Therefore, the reason for the persistence is that they are complete in Christ as to how He is presented in the Bible. This is made clear in the Bible in the following passage, Colossians 2:9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;... " So when you imply that someone is not complete because they are not getting the full story, it goes back to the Garden of Eden and the serpent trying to whisper a self-deception is going on and tempt one with eating forbidden fruit.(Don't get the impression that I am saying you are the devil, merely that your modus operandi is familiar and does not work. And that is due to as I have proved one is complete already in Christ.) So your stratagem of approach on an intellectual basis to question one's faith fails, mostly due for this reason, IMHO. Your question, "Are you afraid of what Jesus taught - that which is not in the canon? Don't give me your reasons, just a direct answer of Yes or No." No, I am not afraid. Your point again is to imply that something outside of canon is going to contradict what is in cannon, which would make null and void canon. Again one is complete in Christ already.... (I will not go back and check through the forum for your posts on rejecting the Bible, and what is in it, I think most all on here can agree, that you do, and you profess "another " Jesus. It would be a waste of my time. But thanks for asking.) Peace  (Tuesday | post #555569)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

KayMare Peace I share your view on this subject. I find it rather incredible that NASL can call people dishonest because everything Jesus said was not written in the Bible. And those things which seem to contradict what he said were written by others, latter on, and attributed to Jesus, and are not included, he expects one to accept. Such thinking to me is duplicitous in nature, or perhaps self-deceived is a better word? Yes! His constant drumming of the word self/Self, may be nothing more than self/Self-deceptio n. But at this time, I am finding it very hard to communicate with him, and perhaps this is my own fault. His lack of faith in anything is a primary source of dismay for me, as he has not yielded even a single word since at least '06 regarding the existence of faith. So for me, it appears that his rejection is quite obstinate. And this much to the detriment of his soul and spirit. Peace  (Tuesday | post #555482)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

NASL Peace John 21:24This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true. 25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. Obviously John himself admits that not everything could have been written down. So what is the problem with what was written down? You simply reject it. Therefore you are presuming that the writer was not being honest. And that only makes your beliefs based on a negative presumption. To which you admit that you have no faith, and this corroborates your beliefs. This does not make them either true or false, simply that you reject what is written about Jesus in the Bible, and the prophecies he fulfilled. And that you believe is being honest. But others believe the Bible and the prophecies, and this makes them honest as well. Your considerable effort to make those who do not believe as you do, as being dishonest is not a strong point, but rather a continuing source of weakness. Therefore, perhaps you can move in a more positive manner of belief system? Peace  (Monday Aug 18 | post #555414)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Pad Peace I noticed you were interested in part, in fasting. I have found outside of the RCC, it is seldom practiced(and even within it is not "enforced "). I find it interesting as well, because Jesus spoke of it in connection with prayer. In my opinion, fasting helps one overcome the habit of focusing on the body, and particularly with the problem(sin) of gluttony. It is part of the dying to oneself which we must do each day as Jesus lives within us. In our Western culture we have basically had all the food we want or need, and beyond. I think this has actually caused many problems in that we no longer take care of the soil as God intended, and we lean on our technology more and more to solve the problems. At some point the soil we become useless, infertile. and then technology may not have any "magic" solution. Peace  (Monday Aug 18 | post #555324)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Oxbow Peace I agree. And more, we should be mortifying our natural selves, and becoming more like Jesus. In a way, I put Jesus first, and then (I try), to put all my actions as Jesus would have done. That is with virtue, and not simply out of habit. In this way we allow Jesus to be with us, and not shut him out in any way in my life. This act of dying to oneself and allowing ourselves to do the Will of God, in becoming more like Jesus, then allows us to follow the Holy Spirit prompting, teaching, consolation, and love. Peace  (Monday Aug 18 | post #555319)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

RoSesz Peace I do not watch the news, but just observe the headlines on myyahoo page when my computer starts up. I know, that there is just too much information and news out there for me to not be affected in a negative way.(I could eliminate that news altogether, but I like to see the weather forecasts.) But I know, that this may come to an end. I am not so sure capitalism has any advantage over other systems in dispensing of wealth equally. I think of the poor home farmer trying to make a living and feeding people, while some CEO head is making millions for making cutthroat decisions, or sits as just a figurehead trying to make money. So there is a definite disconnect in capitalism, which is a divided kingdom, and will not stand. I think people have always been fearful of a collapse in the community in which they live. So it is in Christ we have our confidence. When the eyes of the church are on mammon, they are not on Christ. It is that simple. The Popes, which I have seen, are not looking at mammon, but, behind these people, we cannot be sure, just as we know cronies exist in government. And they are there for their own motives. But this exists not in just the RCC, but all churches I have been in, and most often comes out in the cliques within one's own church, on a more personal note. I think Christianity is meant to be simple. Peace  (Sunday Aug 17 | post #555194)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Oxbow Peace I think I am beginning to see what you mean. I would expand on it, in my own way of thinking. God does know each and everyone of us, beyond what we are capable of knowing. And this knowledge does act in a predetermined way to the benefit of each and all. Mankind does not know totally about himself, and thus cannot act in a predetermined way to benefit each and all. It is for this reason that we all make mistakes, and sin even after we accept Jesus Christ as Savior. But it is to the best of our ability to reject Satan and evil in all its forms. I think there is a kind of gray area here between the word confidence and assuming. I have great difficulty in assuming anything. Mainly because over the course of my life, my assumptions have been proven wrong many times. Thus I tend to question my assumptions, and this may actually weaken my confidence.... Yet it is not confidence which saves, but faith and hope in Christ. So, I believe that I am saved by the Grace of God. Peace  (Sunday Aug 17 | post #555193)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Dust Storm Of course the Pope never "said" that the RCC should sell off all its holdings, or even some of them. But today, as stated, that "some" of the clergy are not leading the life they were ordained to be. And with that it becomes slander against the RCC. The bigger question then(along with these big Protestant churches), is what are they doing holding onto art, and estates(which exceed their usefulness), when it goes against what even the Pope said today about such hypocrisy? In essence then we see a sin of excess, call it either, gluttony, lust, or greed. Whether artwork is donated, or wealth to any church, it must not be put into a vault and stored because it is valued higher than doing good for the poor. That is not just putting food in their mouths, but make education a priority for them, and not those who can afford it. This is a whole system that has to be changed. It has become sinful, and is weighing down not just the church, but oppressing the poor, for their lack of tools needed to bring them out of poverty. If the RCC is not taking the lead in this, then they are not being led by the Holy Spirit, Who does teach us all truth(John 13:16). I think the Pope is taking the lead, but who around him is listening?  (Saturday Aug 16 | post #555107)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Dust Storm Peace I read today an article about the Pope warning his own clergy of not being hypocrites when it comes to poverty(poverty, obedience, chastity). And the growing gap of the rich and poor, and those leading a Christian life to break the traditions which keep the poor oppressed by traditions. I applaud this. It is a recognition that something is wrong. For you, this may not be a good opinion, that I have, to which you disagree. So let us reason, not from the view of a hierarchy, but rather that God deals with each person through Jesus Christ. In other words not from chaos, but rather the unity one has with other Christians. The need for some monolithic hierarchy is not needed, with perhaps the exception of keeping records of what transpires.... In a sense, then, the religious art, the landholdings, and all other things held by the RCC, this Pope has said is hypocrisy, and a tradition which men have kept, going against what simple Christianity demands. It is just something for you to think on. It is perhaps quite counter to what and how you think.... Peace  (Saturday Aug 16 | post #555080)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Oxbow Peace My error. Sorry if it seemed otherwise. I was just trying to, in the shortest way, link the idea of predestination, OSAS, fate, and destiny, into something intelligible. And have come to an impasse. I think there is a link, or a set which overlaps between those who believe in predestination, and OSAS, but they may have nothing in common in other beliefs. It is just that I think of predestination in rather negative terms, so it is rather difficult to write with objectivity on the subject. It gave rise to Calvinism in non-Catholic churches, and Jansenism in RCCs. I resist but must use the hyperbole of Hitler and the Germans believing they were predestined by God to rule Europe/ the World. So I see it as a very slippery slope to believe in predestination by God. In the end though it is God Who predestined us to be one in Jesus Christ, and through Him have everlasting life. It is for this reason that I think not of a person being predestined to be saved, but that they must conform, and be transformed into the image of Jesus before God, which is acceptable to God, and makes us one with Him. It remains a choice of the free-will given by God to each person. I am sorry if this offends you. Peace  (Saturday Aug 16 | post #555076)

Roman Catholic Church

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Dust Storm IMHO it seems to me that some people, at some time, in their lives decide to partake of a particular church. In some cases of course these will be wrong choices. But for some, it is not an imperative to make such a choice. The Spirit of God moves amongst His people, and leads them to places and churches which they may not have imagined. So it is better to let the Holy Spirit lead a person, than to make a "wrong decision".  (Friday Aug 15 | post #554980)