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Episcopal Church

Remembering The 'Philadelphia 11': Where The First Female...

George, The Roman Church has rewritten history to eliminate accounts of women in positions of authority. They have held this line of behavior and reasoning for 1900 years and they'll not give it up anytime soon. Yet, 5th Century Pope Gelasius would never have gone to the extreme of outlawing the practice if it had not been occurring. The so-called "Gnostics " were deemed heretics for, among other things, ordaining women. But, in fact, there were many factions and sects of Christianity in the first 250 years of the "Church" that were doing things differently from what the Roman Church approved. Jesus said that all of us would do the things that he did. I take that to mean women, too. So, even if there was never even one woman ever ordained into the priesthood, I believe that the day when women will regularly be ordained into the priesthood of Jesus Christ is fast approaching. For Episcopalians, most Anglicans and some Lutherans and others, that day has arrived. Personally, I am glad that it has. Women make very capable priests, able to function in the Holy Spirit in every capacity. Rev. Ken  (Monday Aug 11 | post #26)

Episcopal Church

Church of England lifts ban on gay bishops

The voice of hypocritical experience.  (Monday Aug 11 | post #19)

Episcopal Church

Homosexuality and the Bible

Return of stereotyping, bigoted, hypocritical ignorance, founded in superstition and taboo.  (Saturday Aug 9 | post #27312)

Episcopal Church

Homosexuality and the Bible

Yes. But, soon after that time, the disease and its cause became better understood. superstitions and wrongful moral assessments were discarded. Many, not just some homosexuals, are at risk of contracting HIV. It is a virus. More to the point, a vaccine and cure will be found.  (Friday Aug 8 | post #27309)

Episcopal Church

Homosexuality and the Bible

Rosa. You provide an example of the plain truth. So many, who endlessly claim righteousness and profess personal virtue, Christian and otherwise, are the very worst of all in their hypocritical superstitions and taboo. They keep a bag of stones hanging from their belts and are always ready to hurl another into oblivious death on a moment's notice. It is no different from the unrestrained beheadings that are going on in northern Iraq.  (Friday Aug 8 | post #27307)

Episcopal Church

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are no excuses, Joe. It is a virus. It was resident in chimp and monkey populations in Africa. It got into a human somewhere, probably numerous humans, most likely people who eat monkey as part of their diet. It is a virus, Joe. It is a living, reproducing, viral pathogen that has adapted itself to humans in order to reproduce itself. When it gets into the bloodstream in sufficient quantities, it reproduces by invading certain cells, taking them over and turning them into virus producing factories. Eventually, if left untreated, it kills the host. Polio and tuberculosis do the same thing. Only, they are easier to transmit than HIV. But, they are just as devastating. Papillomavirus is another one. It eventually causes cervical cancer, which is a lethal disease, also. Creutzfeldt-Jakob is another one, only more primitive. It eats the host's brain and inevitably kills. There is no known cure. It killed my grandfather, a renowned orthopedic surgeon who had saved many, many lives. Am I supposed to blame someone for his premature death from this wicked pathogen? Who are you going to blame for papillomaviridae, Joe? You, yourself, your physical self, are composed of a trillion living cells and agents, bacteria, viruses, prions, et cetera, that you constantly live with in addition to your own genetic progeny. Some of them, symbiotic, you literally cannot live without. Some are beneficial, some are harmful, some, like strep and staph are so potentially deadly that your system fights with them every second, minute and hour. Yet, YOU carry them and if you weaken, they will get you. They are viruses and living pathogens, Joe. Nothing more. Nothing less. Antigens, vaccines, viral-suppressants and cures will be found for them. They are forms of life. There are trillions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars and each star with planets, naturally. Life forms of all sorts exist throughout the Universe, composed of exactly the same materials as are you and I. They are supposed to exist and thrive. What does the Bible say to do with them? "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over ... every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." It is an ongoing process and it remains to be seen whether or not humankind will eventually be known throughout our own galaxy as a beneficial creation or just another organically complex, ultimately self-destructive pathogen. It is the hope of every Christian; every disciple of the Lord, Jesus Christ, that humankind will eventually follow His lead and take our rightful place among the stars. Thank God.  (Friday Aug 8 | post #27306)

Episcopal Church

Homosexuality and the Bible

Honestly, Joe, Who cares HOW it was introduced to N. America? One way or another it would eventually be introduced, anyway. Whether by heterosexuals, as is the main method of transmission in Africa where it is an epidemic, or by blood transfusion or dirty needles or promiscuity between any two of any sexual persuasion, it is a VIRUS. Do you now wish to blame the introduction of ebola or hepatitis or the Plague or papillomaviridae on someone in particular? Who would you blame for West Nile? How about poliomyelitis or tuberculosis? These are all deadly viral diseases, just like HIV is a deadly viral disease. Trying to blame someone in particular for any disease - unless a person deliberately infects an innocent victim - is both ignorant and peculiarly nearsighted. Cures will be found.  (Thursday Aug 7 | post #27300)

Episcopal Church

Remembering The 'Philadelphia 11': Where The First Female...

If the shoe fits, wear it.  (Thursday Aug 7 | post #24)

Episcopal Church

Women priesthood: 40 years on Worshippers gathered recent...

Yes, Dan. Not to be pedantic about this, but, I believe that the Anglican Church, as an outgrowth of the Roman Church, has been wrong about this issue for about 1900 years. Although, the Anglican Church has been a separate entity only since the Elizabethan era, the Church of England as part of or aligned with the Roman Church has existed from about 500 A.D. Prior to A.D. 325, Church history is regarded as "Early Church" and includes the birth of Christianity and the formation of many semi-parallel sects and regional Churches under the guidance of many Church leaders. As a practical matter, Culture and Religion have habitual, traditional patterns within which the historical, parochial society functions. We read about slavery issues in antiquity. In fact, even up into the present day, there are slavery issues that are condoned by both specific cultures and traditions. Is, because of the condoning of a behavior, any practice either right or justified? Is "common law" ever found to be at odds with what is right or even what is lawful in statute or dogma? The answer is no, the practice of human slavery is neither right nor justified. However, in certain cultures and political climates, the practice is lawful to this day. So, yes, it can be at odds within itself as to practice and justice. It can also continue to be condoned. Until recently, active pedophiles were allowed to exist within the ranks of certain Roman Catholic priesthoods. Is or was that practice justified? No, it never was. Was it condoned? Yes, actively. What I said about the "rewriting of history" is generally understood. History is and has often been rewritten by the victor in a dispute. Is or has the victor always been right or justified in such revisionism or retelling of history? No.  (Thursday Aug 7 | post #7)

Episcopal Church

Women priesthood: 40 years on Worshippers gathered recent...

Here you are again, trying to defend a defenseless position. And yes, the Diaconate is an ordained position. You are a member of the RCC and you project the RCC line of reasoning. What's new with that? Nothing, really. The RCC has been labeling the ordination of women as heretical for 1900 years. It is a case of a cultural majority rewriting history to suit their position. The Episcopal Church and many other Christian denominations disagree with the RCC's refusal to allow women into the priesthood. We are ordaining women. They make excellent priests, fully capable in every respect in the Holy Spirit. Sorry that you are unable or unwilling to accept or comprehend this fact. Rev. Ken  (Tuesday Aug 5 | post #4)

Episcopal Church

Remembering The 'Philadelphia 11': Where The First Female...

Delusional.  (Tuesday Aug 5 | post #22)

Episcopal Church

Remembering The 'Philadelphia 11': Where The First Female...

You've answered the question for yourself. "... and cite and RCC source that actually affirms female ordination. " Try this: Osiek, ed. and transl. by Kevin Madigan and Carolyn (2005). Ordained women in the early church : a documentary history (John Hopkins pbk. ed.). Baltimore, Md. [u.a.]: Johns Hopkins Univ. Press. p. 186. ISBN 9780801879326. In AD 494 Pope Gelasius I wrote a letter condemning female participation in the celebration of the Eucharist, a role he felt was reserved for men. So, the truth is that prior to Gelasius' decree, the ordination of women in the Church and their participation and delivery of the Eucharist in the Holy Spirit was occurring. ****** Now, get off of your lazy, misogynistic duff and look up the references yourself. Honestly, I really don't care what you think about this. It is your problem, not mine. I favor AND SUPPORT THE ORDINATION OF WOMEN TO THE PRIESTHOOD. Every edict from the Roman Church to the contrary is an overt attempt to keep things as they presently are. Yet, they themselves declare that they HAVE the power and authority to say so. Eventually, they'll figure it out. Rev. Ken  (Monday Aug 4 | post #20)

Episcopal Church

Homosexuality and the Bible

You are such an ignorant ass about this! Was it a "gay" man in Africa that introduced this virus to another, making HIV a "gay-only " viral disease? Or was the first victim a hemophiliac? You don't know.  (Monday Aug 4 | post #27279)

Episcopal Church

Women priesthood: 40 years on Worshippers gathered recent...

The ordination of women into the priesthood is an affirmation of Holy Scripture, not a diversion from it. TEC membership losses are a result of many factors. One of these is the departure from an unjustifiable tradition of allowing men only into the priesthood. Is it possible that this change in tradition will eventually result in an increase in membership? That is certainly a possibility. In any case, our Church is better for it. The early Church did allow women into the Diaconate. The fact is that women were ordained into the priesthood, too. So, this is not a new thing to behold. Time will show that TEC is correct in bringing women into the fullness of their potential for service in the Holy Spirit, through ordination. It is their right and due. Rev. Ken  (Monday Aug 4 | post #2)

Episcopal Church

Remembering The 'Philadelphia 11': Where The First Female...

LMAO!!!! .... So, there you have it, folks. "If you try, you can find mention of female priests among heretic factions of the early Church." Oh, yes. I can substantiate it. But, I am NOT going to HAVE to do it for YOU! If I do it, you will do as you have done above, claiming heretic factions. But, if YOU do it, you have to wrestle with the facts all by yourself. Something that you are loathe to do. All you have is excuses for why the Church became the male only bastion that it is. In the meantime, by eliminating women from the ranks and demanding celibacy, conveniently disposing of any issues of inheritable properties and the creation of families, the all-male orders have become closeted hermitages for non-heterosexual antics. You got what you paid for.  (Monday Aug 4 | post #18)