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Richard Dawkins is my redeemer Science is my god. I accept the challenge also. (Ties go to the atheist.) (5 hrs ago | post #23)
Exodus 6:3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them. So god did not tell Abraham his name, according to what he said to Moses at the burning bush. Genesis 13 to the place of the altar that he had made there originally; and A′bram proceeded to call there on the name of Jehovah. Hmmmmmm. Here is another: 'At this A′bram said: “Sovereign Lord Jehovah, what will you give me, seeing that I am going childless and the one who will possess my house is a man of Damascus, E‧li ‧e&# 8242;zer?”' Why did god lie to Moses about this. (5 hrs ago | post #1)
No, what I'm saying is that you don't have a f@cking clue what you're talking about. Stop spouting crap and answer the f@cking question. How do you transliterate a name accurately without the vowels? The guy with the whacked out theory that god doesn't care if you f@ck up his name, huh Gaywrath? (Saturday | post #171)
No, you made the claim, you produce the scriptureWhat a ridiculous claim. You think that god told his name to people, but he really doesn't care how you say it. The only people who believe that are those with a religious agenda who are married to a specific wrong pronunciation. It is really simple. You are wrong. You know you are wrong. Your ONLY defense is to claim that god doesn't careWhat science? You are a tool. It is simple. You are wrong. You know it. I don't have a hate on for JWs at all. I just hate stupid people who make every excuse in the book when they are dead fucking wrongThe people that agree that Yahweh is more correct are bible scholars. No agenda, just based upon knowledge. God's name: you're doing it wrong. I don't know what you think a language scientist is, nor how I think that names should be translated. Apparently you are grasping at straws. (Wednesday May 15 | post #97)
What Gaywrath (pronunciation isn't important, is it?) is doing is comparing Jesus and Jehovah, saying that neither are in the bible. This is true, although a very superficial oversimplification . We know the etymology of Jesus. We know that our pronunciation came from the Greek, which was probably not spoken by Jesus, but which was the language in which Christianity became popular at first. (That actually leads to an interesting discussion, where Jesus talks about being born again, and Nicodemus misunderstands him. For the double entendre to work, that conversation would have to be in Greek, yet Jesus spoke Aramaic. Anyway, sidetracked) We also know the etymology of the word Jehovah. A monk in the 12th century used the vowels from Adonai in the tetragammaton to make up the word Jehovah. He was confused because Jewish scribes would put the vowels there to remind the reader not to pronounce the name, but say adonai instead. So, one name, Jesus, comes from a legitimate source. The other name, Jehovah, comes from a very suspect source. Most scholars will tell you that Yahweh is more likely to be correct. Now, why would a religion that is constantly looking to new light remain with a name that is incorrect, and then Gaywrath say that pronunciation is unimportant? (Wednesday May 15 | post #95)
What scripture do you use to prove that he doesn't care how you pronounce it? Or is that just wishful thinking on your part? How, do you suppose, that you transliterate a name without knowing what the actual vowels are? Tell me genius. When you stop clinging to the fake belief system that you have and grow some critical thinking skills, maybe then your conversations will be a little less inane. (Wednesday May 15 | post #93)
Actually, idiot, it is very close to the Greek sound, which is the language that the religion grew in. So no, it is not pronounced wrongIdiot! You are confusing two things. Words and names are two different things when rendering a text. The actual pronunciation of the name is lostAgain, it is for names. There is ABSOLUTELY NO TRANSLATION FOR YHWH into English. There can only be transliteration, which means you need to know what the sounds are. Without the vowels, the sounds are lost. Are you purposely obtuse, or is it genetic? So it doesn't matter to you that you are most probably fucking up god's name? How is that respectful at all? (Tuesday May 14 | post #72)
A False Prophet According To The Watctower
Ok, let's follow this thought experiment. What was the repentance? How was punishment levied for their transgression? When was the change from false prophet to true prophet, and how could that be known to the general public? (Tuesday May 14 | post #53)
I choose to pronounce it "Douchebag. " No big deal. Wrong is wrong. (Tuesday May 14 | post #68)
The difference is that we actually KNOW what the pronunciations are in the original languages. (Jesus, Yesua or Iesous; Moses, Moseh or Musa; Gabriel, Gavriel or Gabriel; Daniel, Daniyyel). We don't know the basis for the pronunciation of god's name, so we don't have a foundation for transliteration. Too bad, through your failure to reason, you didn't realize that we knew the names of other bible charactersDown grade to "perfectly acceptable?" That is a very subjective term. Let's not use convoluted language to hide meanings. Most bible scholars do accept Yahweh as more correct. Apparently, for you it is acceptable to be wrongThis is where the analogy ends. God didn't choose anything. Your god just happened to be a god of an ancient civilization that had those vagarities to their languageExcellent question. Why would an all-powerful god care about puny humans at all? Why would he care about what a puny human believes? Why would he care at allWho said it is a huge issue? You're wrong and you cannot accept that. You are the one that claims to be a part of an organization that bears god's name, and yet you've messed it up. The only reason you are taking this stance is because you have no defense of your position. So you dismiss it as unimportant. PT Barnum seems to be a very appropriate source at this point. Quote #1 “I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right.” Quote #2 “There's a sucker born every minute.” (Tuesday May 14 | post #67)
First things first: "most bible scholars...always will accept Jehovah?" Are you psychic? You are now able to predict the future? From this claim alone we can see that you are full of shit. Nevertheless, I will press on and expose your worthless reasoning. http://www.catholi c.com/quickquestio ns/is-gods-name-ya hweh-or-jehovah Also, "There is almost universal consensus among scholars today that the sacred Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is to be vocalized and pronounced Yahweh. Probably the name means literally "He is."" New International Version: The Making of a Contemporary Translation CHAPTER 9: YHWH Sabaoth: "The Lord Almighty" Kenneth L. Barker You are dead wrongThis coming from someone who changes his name more often than Italy changes governments. If the vowels are wrong and the pronunciation is off, how is it even god's name. That's why it matters. You belittle the pronunciation issue ONLY because you have no defense of your position. That's why it matters. Your organization worries about wearing ties and dressing in suits for meetings, yet the pronunciation of god's name is a trivial item? Just wowThere is not a single source text that has Jehovah in it. Period. It is a well documented fact that god's name was NOT in use in the first century, because of superstition. If Jesus would have been using the name, it certainly would have made a great fervor. There is no mention of it in the NT, and no place where it is found (excepting quoting OT scripture). So yes, they changed the word of god by adding god's name to a place where there is no evidence that it ever was. Let me get this clear: Pronunciation of god's name - trivial Preserving of god's word - trivial Who's Witnesses are you again? (Monday May 13 | post #57)
It is actually a very valid opinion, shared by most bible scholars. There is debate, to be sure. The reality is, though, the true pronunciation is lost to time. You think god can protect the bible, yet he can't even protect his own name's pronunciation. So Gareth, why did your religion add his name to the NT? Isn't adding things to the bible a sin? (Monday May 13 | post #51)
You are an absolute fool. You are claiming the higher ground because your source is the word of god, yet I have clearly showed to you that Jehovah is NO WHERE TO BE FOUND in the bible. Your source is NOT the word of god. I also do quote factual items. You can counter the claims if you wish, but to just claim that god's word is right without any regard to the surrounding facts is utterly stupid. You are so sure that you absolutely know that you're right simply because you believe YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION of the bible. You are so blind that you cannot even see that other interpretations are valid, other facts often conflict, and other information is required. For instance, you claimed earlier that you don't need any ancient manuscripts because god preserved the bible for you. That is exactly the same as a 4-year-old claiming that we don't need cows because the store already has milk. Learn to think, dudeI am frustrated by your sometimes almost complete lack of insight. You make an easy foil, though, because you have no thought processes to mount a cogent argument in your defenseThey can't even become the final authority among themselves, for Christ's sake. We've had this conversation before. Two different genealogies for Jesus, and they don't even agree on what day he died. Knowledge progresses, always has in one way or another. However, you are mired in religion which destroys creativity. Ponder on this: Greek learning was the source of light for Europe for a long time, which flame was extinguished from the Catholic church and their religious extremism which resulted in the Dark Ages in Europe. During this time, learning moved to the Arabic areas, where much was discovered. (Many stars today still have Arabic names, algebra is Arabic, and our numbers are Arabic.) Then Islam got a hold of them and religious fanaticism and they lost the flame of discovery. Now they are mired in their own dark ages, which they are trying to climb out of now. That is what religious fanaticism will get you. I've shown you that there is no such thing as Jehovah in any ancient manuscript, yet you have yet to comprehend that, simply claiming that you follow the bible. And Jehovah and Yahweh are not the same. 2 syllables and 3 syllables, just to start. (Monday May 13 | post #48)
ughDefine "no light in them.' Here is the reality, with no jingoistic, nonsensical terms: I have consistently shown logical failings on your part, errors in judgment and factual errors on your part. I have shown myself to be much more knowledgeable than youAgain, let's look at the knowledge. Here is the Wikipedia entry. "Jesus" is a Latin transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Greek Ἰ	 51;σ& #959;ῦ ς (Iēsoűs). [25] The Greek form is a hellenization of the Aramaic/Hebrew י 513;ו ע 206; (Yēš& #363;ă‘) which is a post-Exilic modification of the Hebrew י 456;ה ו 465;ש ֻ 473;ע ַ 206; (Yĕh& #333;šuă‘ , Joshua) under influence from Aramaic.[26] The etymology of the name Jesus in the context of the New Testament is generally expressed as "Yahweh saves"[27] or "Yahweh is salvation".[2 8] The name Jesus appears to have been in use in Judea at the time of the birth of Jesus.[29] The first century works of historian Flavius Josephus refer to at least twenty different people with the name Jesus.[30] Philo's reference in Mutatione Nominum item 121 indicates that the etymology of the name Joshua was known outside Judea at the time. No mention of Jehovah, since it is not in the bible anywhere. Yahweh is the best guess that we have for god's name. Like I said before, the actual name has been lost to history. You did not dispute this fact, but instead blindly spouted nonsenseAgain you are short on facts. Wikipedia again: In the Hebrew Bible hallelujah is actually a two-word phrase, not one word. The first part, hallelu, is the second-person imperative masculine plural form of the Hebrew verb hallal.[1] However, "hallelujah " means more than simply "praise Yah", as the word hallel in Hebrew means a joyous praise in song, to boast in God. Hallel could also refer to someone who acts madly or foolishly.[15][16] The second part, Yah, is a shortened form of YHWH, the name for the Creator.[5] The name ceased to be pronounced in Second Temple Judaism, by the 3rd century BC due to religious beliefs.[17] The correct pronunciation is not known, however, it is sometimes rendered by Christians as "Yahweh" or "Jehovah ". The Septuagint translates Yah as Kyrios (the LORD), because of the Jewish custom of replacing the sacred name with "Adonai" , meaning "the Lord" The pronunciation is lost....answer the question: You claimed that the name was protected. How is having the real pronunciation lost "protected? " (Sunday May 12 | post #42)
So says god's word, but the evidence is lacking. It certainly divides peoples and causes wars and bloodshed. Is that what you meanAgain, that is what the book says, however there is not a single shred of evidence that shows any salvation to anyone whatsoever. Why do you insist on quoting scripture that has no basis in factWhat a glaring lack of insight. The ONLY reason you have the word is because of SOMEONE ELSE looking at those ancient manuscripts. Beyond that, the differences between those manuscripts are so plentiful that they actually outnumber the actual words of the NT. In what sense is that 'protecting the wordI told you already that there is not one single place in any ancient manuscript that has Jehovah in it. Period. You did not dispute this claim, yet you again assert that Jehovah's name is preserved in the bible. Are you missing a chromosome? There is no manuscript with god's name at all in the NT. Nothing at all. The only manuscripts of the OT that have have god's name don't have the full name, only the Tetragrammaton. The actual pronunciation of the name is lost to history, since the vowels are only assumed. How, by any stretch of the imagination, is that 'protecting the name?' (Sunday May 12 | post #37)
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