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Atheism

nature vs nurture

http://ntrygg.file s.wordpress.com/20 12/02/nuturevnatur e.jpg And understanding the how of science, you gain understanding of the importance of science to understand the complexity of the world – and complexity is entirely reducible – because that’s what a scientific theory actually does. By providing a simple and elegant explanation – that is the reduction of complexity – which complexity is the patterns and masses of data that we have observed through generations and countless hours of painstaking detailed drilled down documented, tested and with predictable outcomes and probabilities. Evolution is that species change over time. The means of change and the processes that cause change are part of the complexity that is understood from this simple declarative sentence. Now, religion on the other hand. Religion is problematic because religious thinking is declarative sentences and nothing else. No understanding of hyperbole, parody/irony/stati re, subjective or conditional clauses and no understanding probabiliy or possibility. Just black and white, either or, zero sum – God did it (and you’re going to hell for rejecting it) and even if you don’t beleive in god, isn’t it better for you if you act as if you do (or suffer heretic, pagan, witch, infidel, and godlessly immoral queers and atheists) and if you really won’t act as if God is real and demand the civil rights as guaranteed in secular democratic society, well, we’ll GodBlock your civil rights until you beleive in hell because we’ll be bringing it to you right here on earth – don’t tell me not to judge lest I be judged, I got judges and politicians all ready to fix your little red sin wagon. You know, I don’t even know if televangelists can even think that clearly – but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Religion ss about the Supernatural – and it is a very simple premise. God did it. Because he did. So obey and be rewarded or disobey and suffer. So it’s no wonder to me that when religious people think that the God Premise is complex because they claim the whole of the universe – which they call “Creation” – as proof of their God did It or else, there wouldn’t be any universe to talk about. And why Pascal’s Wager – is so compelling – and that Pascal was a mathematician who was critical to understanding Random Chance – Pascal came up with his wager – at the end of his days – in poverty and more than a little – shall a say – not at his peak mental powers - So – that Pascal was a naturalist mathematician who advanced a mathematical understanding of the universe – and should be admired for that – but Pascal, at the time of coming up with his little meagre wager which was mostly wish fulfillment and insanity should be considered a little bit like Elvis Presley: in 1977. http://ntrygg.word press.com/2012/02/ 14/nature-vs-nurtu re/  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #1)

Atheism

Let's talk about context.

abuse take many forms and spiritually, it doesn't leave bruises that you can show to a judge  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #2)

Atheism

I have figured out how to successfully deconvert christians

how scary that it's Santorium (frothy mix of lube and fecal matter) v Romney (only 1 wife so no hope of heaven)  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #3)

Elvis Presley

Elvis meet Whitney

sad, but not surprising the only way she could have restored her star was to copy the final Elvis career move singer to movies to death  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #9)

Atheism

I have figured out how to successfully deconvert christians

say as an outsider to mormon/christianit y I don't see any meaningful difference __________________ __________________ and when I read the book - 99 places Death Might take you I realized that only the Abrahamic religions think there's one life and one eternal afterlife the vast majority of religions go for a karma/reincarnatio n cycle - with variations depending on the given local version of the basic karma religion. which in many ways, makes a lot more intellectual sense - cosmic recycling and rebirth with other religions, being so ethnicity specific that you can only be a member if born to it - that they are really obviously beside the point and a dead end intellectually speaking Science is all theory Religion is just opinions  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #2)

Atheism

I have figured out how to successfully deconvert christians

so I've been a little busy lately when I realized that apologetics is about keeping the unchurched within the fold and not about tarting religion up in sciencey sounding language to try to get more converts or to apologize for the history by making religion appear modernized and the book that revealed this elegant truth is an apologetics book Letters from a Skeptic 30 letters between an Apologist and his 80 year old unchurched father (who was not a skeptic, he was a doubter who wanted nothing to do with the evil church groups) religious people have no idea what a skeptic is they have no idea how secular historians or real archeologists operate and apologetics is all lies and distortions but the trick to unchurching someone is to create a shock wave within their worldview and that can't be done in zero sum conversations but only in interest based conversations so leave the zero sum for public forums like this one and visit the websites of christian bloggers engage them, challenge them, show them the water and let them drink because I've been unchurching christians on line for months now - and its amazing just as amazing as it was when I was volunteering at a woman's health collective to help a woman get in touch with her true feminism - pro woman (without being anti man) and so see, the possibility - that christians can actually think outside the brain box prison of their religion very radical and heady stuff and the secret is to let them rant about Mormons who they don't deem to be christians and then say, to an outsider, we don't see any difference and then, let that settle into their brains no substantial difference between Mormons and Christians and then see if they can generalize to no substantive difference between the Abrahamic Trilogy of that one religion (Judaism is the source)  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #1)

Elvis Presley

News!!! Dolores Hart to attend the Oscars!

more interesting to see privately held Elvis related treasures  (Feb 14, 2012 | post #6)

Atheism

The Dumbest Thing Posted by a No-gods-bot

if there's no evidence there's nothing to understand so no, it's not rational to beleive something you don't understand but you can't judge what other people understand by what you understand because when you don't let religion limit your thinking, you understand a lot more - and until religion stops clouding and limiting your thinking you have no idea about what you don't understand people outside of religion, get what religion is about people inside, not so much  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #50)

Atheism

"Proof" behind a God.

okay, thanks i thought it was odd having trouble parsing sometimes  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #23)

Atheism

The Dumbest Thing Posted by a No-gods-bot

Same back to you and it's not funny, it's sad is is rational to not accept claims lacking in evidence (atheism) is is irrational to accept or beleive a claim lacking evidence (theism) yes, as I have written it without word games, this is the basis and sum total of what atheism is so, if you want to find out what we are in our world - naturalists - then we have to change the conversation from what we aren't - theists - to what we are - naturalists but you have demonstrated over and over that your theism has prevented you from gaining any capacity to navigate or understand the natural world and that leaves you with one discussion note "beleive me" and we say no and then the conversation repeats, because you are not capable of having a meaningful discussion or exchange of views and experiences because nothing you are talking about resonates with us and nothing we say can resonates with you and you just keep wanting to let your love light shine because you don't understand that everyone feels that love light and there's simply nothing divine about it it's all inside of you waiting to be expressed but the method that you are choosing to express it in is not shiny and loving to us - it's black hearted cruel and evil so we are literally not talking about the same religion because your religion is not the christianity that's out there in the world your religion is the nice loving one in your head and you can't sell what's in your head without understanding how people have experienced Christianity and when you assert that Christians are moral and loving you beleive that because that's your expereince and you are mistakenly assuming that your experience is everyone else's experience and that is simply not the case but you won't listen to the real harms that your religion has done to society and to individuals instead you act as if the only true christian is you and why should you be tarred and feathered with the same brush as the lesser christians but you are acting the same - telling us that you have all the answers without any understanding of us as people or any understanding of our experiences and no understanding of the shared experience that Christianity has done to non-christians you are not a messenger with a love message you are a jack booted thug from a global organization that has a history of genociding inconvenient populations, murdering individuals who would have advanced our understanding of the universe because their ideas didn't feed or support the religion of the day and holding back social progress and limiting our freedom to take liberties with whatever makes us happy - which is what America was meant to do. Religion is off message because it's not about people understanding the world and how to be in it Religion says this is the way to be, so obey or suffer. and when we don't obey, we suffer in spades so, we don't need your abusive, authoritarian, control freak, domineering love that doesn't bother to take into account any part of our person or experience in the world.  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #37)

Elvis Presley

Elvis Presley Fancy Dress?

right just because we are Elvis fans doesn't make us Trekkies  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #3)

Atheism

Science saved my soul... from religion

I think that's the problem beleivers accept the emotional experiences they have as evidence of god but they don't know that the emotional experiences are just what people are we are all sensualists we experience the world through our senses and when religion and society and people make us not trust our senses - we stop paying attention to the information that they gather but just because we don't pay attention doesn't mean that our brains aren't still gathering or that we are then trying to make sense of our sensory data tells us - within whatever framework we view and understand the universe so - feeling loved and good - becomes evidence for religion, because religion is how the person views the world or feeling loved and good because you had a nice joint and are playing your favorite music and just grooving and groking the world SAME FUCKING FEELINGS DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION because of the quality of the cavewalls inside our mind's eye is what makes the difference  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #23)

Atheism

The Dumbest Thing Posted by a No-gods-bot

humble brother wrote: This has to be: "I don't believe anything without evidence" Then they post another message: "I believe no gods exist" That's the very definition of irrational thinking. Many of these funny atheists also say: "Nonexistence of evidence is evidence of nonexistence" Can you believe these yahoos? ;) The reason that these statements appear contradictory is because you don't understand what they actually mean because you do not understand naturalism or the study of nature, which is science Statement: "I don't beleive things without evidence" This does not mean that I have to personally evaluate or experience or understand - this is an incorrect literal interpretation - which is the usual level of thinking of a religious person, because belief is the word they use to describe the moment that they accept the premise without further evaluation. To a naturalist, to beleive something means accepting a premise that has been arrived at over time, and revealed through the collective and cooperative work of many people who have made logical and intuitive leaps arising from their robust and complex understanding of the work. To beleive isn't an acceptance without question, but to come to understand potential, probability, random chance and verified foundations that have withstood the test of human knowledge - which is why science changes over time - because it's a process of incorporating new information and ideas. Whereas, religion is handed down complete and unchanged - except for fits and starts where it had to change to remain in the world, instead of consigned to the mythology section of the book store. "I beleive no gods exist" That is a leap, not of faith, but a statement of credibility and logic. It's not an emotional beleive that is felt because belief in a god or gods is an emotional belief that is satisfying and makes you feel comforted and connected There is no emotional content in the statement that no gods exist, it is a logical and intellectual position that means many have claimed a god or gods, but none have proven or provided any evidence - thus, there are no premises, evidence, work that has been presented that is verifiable. religion is not a theory, it's a hypothesis - and not even a good guess based on wishful and magical thinking and without substance - it is pure emotion and emotion alone. instead, people through the ages have tried to sort out how to make the world a better place and how to communicate those ideas - and not knowing or understanding the human body opened themselves up to experiences - often drug related - and felt things and the way that their personal expereinced felt could only be interpreted through what they beleived about the world so the washes of love and comfort where mis-interpreted as gifts from the gods and the person went out in the world and figured out how to make others feel the same way - and that feeling became the basis by which converts were made and some people who got into religion, saw the potential for wealth and power and that was the end of the goodness of religion. "Nonexistence of evidence is evidence of nonexistence" When there is no evidence, there is no trail to follow to discovery and understanding because you say there's a god and I say there's an invisible pink unicorn who farts rainbows that cause all those same good feelings that you get from your god so - it all comes down to your personal experience I have as much proof for my rainbow farting invisible pink unicorn as you do for your god and in person, I can trigger in your brain all the same good feelings that you get from church so prove that your god is real and my unicorn isn't. and you can't, because all you can talk about is your experience of your religion and why it seems real to you and I can talk about the human brain and explain all those feelings that you feel without reverting to goddidit  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #34)

Atheism

The Dumbest Thing Posted by a No-gods-bot

and there's nothing humble or brotherly by your presumption that your tiny world is the answer to everyone else's life when you don't understand the complexity or robustness of everyone else's life because you settled for emotionally satisfying and intellectually empty answers doesn't mean that the rest of us are so willing to settle  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #32)

Atheism

The Dumbest Thing Posted by a No-gods-bot

The reason that these statements appear contradictory is because you don't understand what they actually mean because you do not understand naturalism or the study of nature, which is science Statement: "I don't beleive things without evidence" This does not mean that I have to personally evaluate or experience or understand - this is an incorrect literal interpretation - which is the usual level of thinking of a religious person, because belief is the word they use to describe the moment that they accept the premise without further evaluation. To a naturalist, to beleive something means accepting a premise that has been arrived at over time, and revealed through the collective and cooperative work of many people who have made logical and intuitive leaps arising from their robust and complex understanding of the work. To beleive isn't an acceptance without question, but to come to understand potential, probability, random chance and verified foundations that have withstood the test of human knowledge - which is why science changes over time - because it's a process of incorporating new information and ideas. Whereas, religion is handed down complete and unchanged - except for fits and starts where it had to change to remain in the world, instead of consigned to the mythology section of the book store. "I beleive no gods exist" That is a leap, not of faith, but a statement of credibility and logic. It's not an emotional beleive that is felt because belief in a god or gods is an emotional belief that is satisfying and makes you feel comforted and connected There is no emotional content in the statement that no gods exist, it is a logical and intellectual position that means many have claimed a god or gods, but none have proven or provided any evidence - thus, there are no premises, evidence, work that has been presented that is verifiable. religion is not a theory, it's a hypothesis - and not even a good guess based on wishful and magical thinking and without substance - it is pure emotion and emotion alone. instead, people through the ages have tried to sort out how to make the world a better place and how to communicate those ideas - and not knowing or understanding the human body opened themselves up to experiences - often drug related - and felt things and the way that their personal expereinced felt could only be interpreted through what they beleived about the world so the washes of love and comfort where mis-interpreted as gifts from the gods and the person went out in the world and figured out how to make others feel the same way - and that feeling became the basis by which converts were made and some people who got into religion, saw the potential for wealth and power and that was the end of the goodness of religion. "Nonexistence of evidence is evidence of nonexistence" When there is no evidence, there is no trail to follow to discovery and understanding because you say there's a god and I say there's an invisible pink unicorn who farts rainbows that cause all those same good feelings that you get from your god so - it all comes down to your personal experience I have as much proof for my rainbow farting invisible pink unicorn as you do for your god and in person, I can trigger in your brain all the same good feelings that you get from church so prove that your god is real and my unicorn isn't. and you can't, because all you can talk about is your experience of your religion and why it seems real to you and I can talk about the human brain and explain all those feelings that you feel without reverting to goddidit  (Jan 8, 2012 | post #31)