Non-Cas Fan

Smoking

Ohio approves state smoking ban

That is too bad. I would have liked to have connected with you when I was out there in DC, you know. That would have been fun. Or at least interesting. Did you see the pictures that I took? My photo of the Department of Agriculture building is one of the ones published in the ninth edition of the Schmap guide to Washington DC. (Yeah, whoop-de-doo. But, still...)  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #59480)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

oblique ad hominem. Earth is a sphere. SHS has yet to be proven harmful in casual exposures -- though that April 2009 study looks interesting, the "harm" seems subjective. BTW, you may be likewise aligned with flat-earthers if you claim "no safe level" without any science to back itRambling, and given the current hour, I have forgotten what possible point you may have been trying to make here. I will simply point out that the 2006 Surgeon General's Report states that the remaining area of greatest exposure of nonsmokers to ETS is in the home. Headed to bed, it's been a long day. Thanks for the distraction. I appreciate your ability to communicate with clarity and politeness -- a rarity around here, it seems -- even though I know we disagree on several points, and will likely continue to.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #331)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

Thanks. I had found this by googling that excerpted text you posted. I didn't, however, read far enough to see the Philip-Morris line. Interesting.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #330)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

I thought that the cotinine levels in the toddlers was due to their gnawing on toys that had adsorbed the SHS. Maybe that was just part of the study's (or the press release's) broadly speculative conclusion, but that is what stuck with me. Toddlers gnawing on smoke-covered toys. And I will concede that some surfaces will "absorb" , rather than "adsorb" . But the release from "adsorbed " SHS is easier than "absorbed ". Like you say, clean and clean, but it's still nasty stinky smoke. I used to despair that the TV we got for free (amusing story, for another time) would ever stop smelling like cigarettes. It's been just over 10 years now, and it's no longer noticeable. But enough of my anecdotal... Last I knew, there were no studies that definitely linked "third-hand exposure" to any health hazard, and the contaminants on other peoples' walls are not generally anybody else's concern. THAT is what makes your point frivolous. You want to make an issue of other peoples' property, but you don't find that frivolous?  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #329)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

The tobacco companies are not now, nor have they (that I am aware) marketing cigarettes to young people. Yes, young people take it up, but not because of advertising. I thought we had already discussed this somewhere on topix. Maybe it was someone else. Tell you what, show me some recent examples of tobacco being actively marketed to young people, and maybe I'll accept your point. But just to point to the industry document that examined the smoking habit of young people IS a spurious connection. See, the young people whose smoking habits (by brand, if I recall correctly) they were examining already HAD a smoking habit. Hello! Where's the marketing to those kids? As has been mentioned before, kids start smoking because they see their parents (or other relatives) doing it, and their peers who smoke are the biggest influence, not some phantom marketing to kids. (They're under court orders to specifically NOT market to kids, or even to make ads that might possibly be misconstrued as being a cartoon. Remember?) Any way, it's quite a leap to go from "most smokers start before they turn 18" to "they're marketing to youth". The two are not necessarily an actual correlation, despite your portrayal otherwise.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #327)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

It doesn't change the leftist position you've taken, though. I am less prepared to abrogate the blessings of liberty in the name of reducing/preventin g the generation of SHS than you, apparently.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #325)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

Again, I say that if you are arguing for a ban on all smoking, you're on point. But unless the law dictates that Great Aunt Martha cease from smoking in her own home in case nonsmoking relatives come calling, you're not completely addressing the actual problem. A total ban does that. A ban on indoor smoking in "public places" fails thereFrom an article about that study "The sympathetic nervous system produces the “fight or flight” response, which drives the heart and blood pressure and may cause damage if activated too long." (How long is 'too long'??) I'd like to know what the PPM and particulate sizes were. Can you imagine the response to diesel fumes?? Yowza! Anyway, I was able to find the abstract, but I may have to try to contact Ms. Evans to see if she'd send me any info on the PPM, and PM sizes. It looks like an interesting one for me to seeYou might, but I'm still holding out as skeptical. But I will concede that this *could* turn out to be that smoking gun I've been asking for for the last three years nowIt implicates cooking oil, too. Which affects me more than SHS, since I enjoy cookingAs I've said before, you've got to grandfather most of those smokers, giving them a prescription of cigarettes, administered by a health care professional. Otherwise it would be a disastrous failureI think your approach is consistent, but consistently from the left and dictatorial. I prefer a method that preserves freedom for the people, rather than state shacklesAfter hundreds of years, smoking has been "normalized ".  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #324)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

I have bookmarked this for future reading. I didn't go through the whole thing. But the section on SHS exposure to the rats still qualifies as chronic exposure, instead of casual.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #321)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

At first I thought you were talking about altering tobacco to be free of nicotine. An interesting approach, but you'd still need to allow for nicotine-producing tobacco plants if those studies that show nicotine is beneficial (not when smoked or ingested) for generating blood vessels. then it sounded like you are going to "immunize " the people at large. A dangerous mindset to have, sir. The state does not own the people, despite the efforts of the left. And you can't -- well, SHOULDN'T-- just arbitrarily change human physiology. The nicotinic receptors exist for a reason, you know.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #319)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

That there are so many of us who are NOT addicted to nicotine is irrelevant. That ETS used to be socially prevalent is also immaterial in modern society, where fewer places allow smoking (by corporate choice, rather than by dictatorial writ). "Unchecked " is a complete misrepresentation of what had been happening in reality. In the real world, sir, more and more companies were prohibiting in-office smoking (this is even mentioned in the 2006 Surgeon General's Report), with many setting up particular break rooms in which they could smoke. Some companies even began to refrain from hiring smokers. "Inconvenienc e" is a frivolous justification for adding any law to the books, and one person's "inconvenienc e" may not be a bother for others. And you are correct, that many regard it as their "right" to choose to NOT be exposed to smoke. That is a right that may easily be executed by simply NOT GOING into buildings in which there is smoking. That was the approach that I took, whenever practical. I don't find much merit to your argument here.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #318)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

Pollution is already an issue being dealt with by the laws of the land. (And, yeah, I have read that study on the effect of cigarette butts on water fleas, and was not convinced.) And animals stupid enough to eat cigarette butts... are you kidding? Frivolous!  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #315)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

This is actually frivolous. Walls and other indoor surfaces can be cleaned, for one thing, and are generally not anybody else's concern. Frivolous. And the word is "adsorbed ", not "absorbed ".  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #309)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

Again, you make your argument based on if not outright false, then at least spurious premise.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #308)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

This is a valid reason to pursue eliminating retail tobacco products, but fails as an argument with regard to SHS exposure of nonsmokers.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #307)

Smoking

Report Says Tobacco Kills 6 Million a Year: What Is Being Done ...

Again, I reject your leftist, anti-capitalist premise. It has no bearing on SHS exposure, either. Non sequitur.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #306)