Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
... There's a good review of Keller's book at http://www.billmue hlenberg.com/2008/ 03/26/a-review-of- the-reason-for-god -by-timothy-keller / Quote about Hell: Says Keller, “hell is simply one’s freely chosen identity apart from God on a trajectory into infinity”. People who seek to be free of God, - who is the only source of love, goodness, beauty and kindness - can follow that path. And that path does lead to hell, which is the place where God is not. As C.S. Lewis said, hell is the “greatest monument to human freedom”. Quote about Justice: Modern “objections to God are based on a sense of fair play and justice,” says Keller. People strongly believe we ought not to suffer, die of oppression and hunger, and so on. Yet in the evolutionary worldview, death, destruction and suffering are fully natural – they are part of the mechanism of natural selection and survival of the fittest. Crap just happens, in other words, in a secular scheme of things. Indeed, where does the sense of justice and fair play even come from, in such a dog-eat-dog world, where only matter matters? The believer, on the other hand, can account for both evil (we live in a fallen world) and goodness (we are made in the image of a good God). (1 hr ago | post #16414)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
I've just started reading Tim Keller's book, The Reason for God, and was planning to quote from it about hell. Fortunately, someone did it for me at wiki.answers.com. Here's an excerpt: -------- quote ----------- Hell is a place in which one chooses to live a life apart from God, placing one's own priorities and desires over God's. It is also a place that an individual chooses to be, as strange as that may seem. It makes sense that someone who doesn't want to live with God would want to go to this place apart from God, which is hell. It wouldn't make sense that a person who, for his time on Earth, sought one's self over God would want to live in a place where praising God and placing God first would occur. ------------------ -------- http://wiki.answer s.com/Q/Why_does_g od_let_people_go_t o_hell_though_he_l oves_them_so_much (1 hr ago | post #16413)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
C.S.Lewis' book, Mere Christianity, was based on a series of radio broadcasts he made to the general public. You might find his classic, The Abolition of Man, written at a higher level, to be more engaging. But your question, "how does one *decide* to believe?" is a good one. Lewis himself was "Surprised by Joy" - the title of his book, which tells of his own spiritual awakening, characterized by a deep and unexpected inner joy, following a long search. "Seek and you shall find." (1 hr ago | post #16411)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
At least change your name!... Your crude messages denigrate the name, Lily of the Valley (and humanity in general)... Bushwhacker would be more appropriate. (2 hrs ago | post #16408)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL wrote: One step at a time, please... Do we or do we not agree that the evidence we see today can't distinguish between imported, created, or abiogenetically-pr oduced life (or Last ThursdayismOK, so we can at least agree on that!... That's a first! All we know for sure is that life appeared on earth... That's the only evidence we have at hand. *How* it appeared, we cannot know for sure, *unless* you rule out creation. And no one can do that unless they can show a way to falsify the hypothesis: "There is no creator." As I've said before, the abiogenesis vs creation controversy should probably *not* be brought up in a science class, since, unlike evolution, it is not open to real-time investigation or demonstration. But, if either is introduced, the other should also be recognized as a possible alternative hypothesis. As it is, biology students have their hands full learning what *can* be observed and replicated in the lab. (2 hrs ago | post #16403)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
Actually, since biogenesis, to a scientist, means life from *materialistic* life, then I suppose creation, being life from *supernatural* life, would be indistinguishable from abiogenesis (cf our discussion with Drew). So there's scientific logic to your "Let there be abiogenesis!" quip. (7 hrs ago | post #16372)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
Actually, my jumping up and down on my computer just produced my last response to Drew Smith. ;-) ] Hey, I'm always interested in finding out what other religions believe. I'm assuming that Dianetics is a religion, a form of gnosticism? Or do they claim some kind of scientific basis? I know, I should Wiki Dianetics. (8 hrs ago | post #16367)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL wrote: The alternative to us being responsible for our decisions is to let God make them for us. But that takes us back to automaton status. If we're not free to say "Yes" or "No," we're not freeWhat I may not have made clear is that I believe each individual can freely make decisions (ideally with God-given wisdom) that will determine each individual's outcome. Somehow, God weaves all these individual decisions into an ultimate grand 'Finis'. (9 hrs ago | post #16366)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL: By that logic, if parents *were* going to be around forever (or at least for the lifetimes of their children), then they shouldn't have to teach their children how to make their own decisions. Drew Smith: That's right, parents wouldn't have to, since parents could take care of their children forever. MichiganGEL responds: Slow down, Drew, and think first. Can you imagine the situation our great great great... great grandparents would be in if they had to make the decisions for every one of their descendents?!? (9 hrs ago | post #16365)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL wrote: <quoted text> We're certainly in agreement on predestination! My John 3:16 reads "...[E]veryon e who believes in him might not perish...," which indicates we have the option to believe or not. The book of John stresses the 'believe' factor... It provides great insight into your questions... But I do understand the intellectual problems we have making such a decisionIt is interesting to note that the famous John 3:16 verse I alluded to was what Jesus was saying to an intellectual Pharisee of the day, Nicodemus. When Jesus went on to tell him, "You must be born again to see the Kingdom of God," Nicodemus responded "Must I enter again into my mother's womb?" [Why does Drew Smith come to mind right now? ;-) ] Of course, Jesus was referring to spiritual rebirth. (9 hrs ago | post #16364)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL wrote: Matzke's nice paper supports how abiogenesis *could* have happened. But how can the evidence we have today distinguish between imported, created, or abiogenetically-pr oduced life??? It can'tOne step at a time, please... Do we or do we not agree that the evidence we see today can't distinguish between imported, created, or abiogenetically-pr oduced life (or Last Thursdayism)??? Matzke's paper presents *how* abio could have happened. But, as you say so well, "'how' is not evidence. It's an explanation." There have been similar 'hows' put forth for panspermia. I suppose there could be philosophical 'hows' put forth for creation or "Last Thursdayism" too. But, I too agree that 'hows' are not evidence, so we still cannot say it was abio', creation, or some other process. (9 hrs ago | post #16363)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
Keep up the good work, PoKay! I'm glad you have the background in chemistry to cogently argue some of those abiogenesis points... I sure don't! With that... Good nite y'all!! (19 hrs ago | post #16330)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
Uh, yeah, right :-( Is this Scientology?... Link, please? TIA (19 hrs ago | post #16325)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL wrote: Parents act in this way with their children... They steer them toward the right goals, but try, as much as possible, to let them make their own decisions (depending on their age, of courseBy that logic, if parents *were* going to be around forever (or at least for the lifetimes of their children), then they shouldn't have to teach their children how to make their own decisions. The alternative to us being responsible for our decisions is to let God make them for us. But that takes us back to automaton status. If we're not free to say "Yes" or "No," we're not free. (19 hrs ago | post #16323)
Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You
MichiganGEL wrote: By "it" you cannot mean *only* abiogenesis, since life could also have been created or come in from space orNice (looong) paper that supports how abiogenesis *could* have happened. But how can the evidence we have today distinguish between imported, created, or abiogenetically-pr oduced life??? It can't! (19 hrs ago | post #16320)
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