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Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

Thank you for your questions. I fear that many people are confused about this issue, as you are, yet don't feel able or don't know how to express it. You have done so wonderfully. First of all, the only prayer that God hears from the unregenerate (you might say, unsaved) is the prayer of repentance and acceptance of Christ's Lordship over all, and personally. So, it is not an issue of 'praying the gay away.' It doesn't matter what your sin of choice is - without salvation through Christ, you are going to be separated from God for all eternity. The truth of what I say is, in no way, harmed by your analogy. I do not make out that homosexual behavior is caused by chemicals/hormones /etc., only that those things are potentially factors in homosexual desires. I do not make it exclusive to those things though - there might be hundreds or thousands of factors. So, science hasn't come up with a cure because you can't cure sin with medicine. There is no excuse under the sun for sinful behavior. As with all sins, repentance and salvation is the cure. As for treating it like an illness, kleptomaniacs can be treated for their disorder, right? Now, stealing is against the law, but only because its a Biblical precept - as is homosexuality, even though its legal. But even if there were no treatments, we still imprison them for stealing...should we let them steal just because they are pre-disposed to do so? Having a tendency or urge does not excuse it if it is a sinful act. Homosexuality is the only instance where people try to argue otherwise. As for homosexual acts, I only make a delineation between what we feel like doing and what we actually do. The desires alone do not make you homosexual. No more so that being tempted to murder makes you guilty of murdering, even if the temptation is due to your upbringing or a chemical imbalance...so, for me, I still struggle with homosexual proclivities, 3 years and 2 children into the happiest marriage you will probably ever see...but I do not act on them because it would be sinful. And you are right. I am in denial. Every true Christian is. Each and every day we deny ourselves, even die to ourselves, to our sinful habits, our 'flesh' as the Bible refers to it...and at the end of the day, when we see that we didn't get it all right all the time, we are able to come before God and ask for His forgiveness and for the strength to repent (turn away from) the sins to which we fell that day. Do you know the difference between a Christian who sins and an unregenerate person who sins? The unregenerate man accepts his sin, excuses it....the Christian struggles against it, and experiences victory over it, through his salvation...not perfectly, but progressively better and better.  (Dec 4, 2012 | post #191)

Houston, TX

Why I Hate God

Exactly right. The corporate worship of the Church is preparation for Heaven - since in Heaven, we will perfectly worship God, always. Again, correct! Hell is separation from God. People say they want the world and everything else, but they don't want God in it....and that's exactly what they're going to get. Without His common grace (kindnesses given regardless of faith/belief - like rain on the fields of a wicked man) man will be left with an existence devoid of any good, pleasurable or enjoyable thing. This thought should frighten the unsaved, if you can conceive of how much you rely on those 'good' things....friends, laughter, feeling full or warm, or rested, happiness....none of these can exist without the presence of God, so eternity without Him is fear, loneliness, sadness - without end... A sobering thought. Unintentionally you have done an excellent job of giving the unregenerate man or woman a reason to accept Christ. We would that you might think about what you yourself have said, and realize what lies ahead for you, in death. Christ gives the Christian (Christ follower) victory over sin, death and hell. No man can achieve this without Him. I implore you to see your sinfulness, your need of a Savior, and to believe that Christ alone can save you - can give you the faith to take hold of the promises He has made...and you, too, can have peace with God in this life, so that you can stand before Him, made blameless and acceptable to Him by the gift Christ has so willingly given. I pray that the Holy Spirit will draw you in, with an irresistable grace, and will regenerate you, make you alive in Christ, and give you a heart of flesh in the place of your heart of stone - a heart that beats, for the first time, and can make you able to enjoy the abundant life He promises. Okay, that was all :)  (Dec 4, 2012 | post #326)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

Hey, Just thought I'd let you in on a little secret...I'm a anti-homosexual Christian, marriage not being an issue at all, from a political viewpoint, since marriage or no marriage, homosexuals will continue in their sin either way...and I used to be a homosexual; I was one for several years. I also had a friend in college who used to be one as well, and she also had left her sinful lifestyle and converted to Christianity. We may have inborn preferences, due to hormones or chemicals or anything else, but our choice to perform a sinful act based on those preferences is our CHOICE...no one makes someone perform homosexual acts - they choose to do it. Ignorant people think otherwise, and it seems to be a popular liberal theory, but the theory breaks down in the face of people like me, and my college friend...if our chemicals, hormones, and upbringing make us who we are, then you have to refuse to acknowledge that people like me exist - people whose proclivities, for whatever reason, tend us towards sinful behavior, but we count ourselves dead to our sinful natures, our flesh and we know, as Christians, that Christ has made us alive in Him...no longer slaves to our old sinful selves. And you can put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)  (Dec 4, 2012 | post #189)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

Yeah, I did have to run. I didn't tho, I walked :) It was a good time...took the kids to the park. To your question about "which church" and all that. First let me clarify that some things are in the government's court and others aren't, and that is where this argument is based. Example. Does the government have the right to limit our freedom because they have deemed our behavior to be harmful to ourselves? Of course, to the extent that it is harmful to others, then they must intervene...but what about to ourselves? 1.) There are laws in place banning the use of trans-fats in...I can't remember...New York, I think? The idea, though, is that, because its harmful for us to consume it, they are making it illegal. What's next? I mean, if unhealthy food is going to be illegalized by the government, I guarantee you can say bye-bye to McDonald's, cheesecake, sweet tea...you get the idea. 2.) How does me not wearing my seat-belt endanger anyone else? Yet, the government has taken it upon themselves to protect me from me by force of law and punishment. Have you seen "I, Robot"? 3.) People weren't putting enough into their savings acct.'s to provide for their care and cost of living after retirement. So, the government stepped in and created Social Security...to protect us from our own inability to save money. They expressed great intentions, then they used it like their own personal piggy bank. To pay us back what they've been taking out of our checks our entire working lives, we'll go trillions of dollars more into debt. Doesn't sound like much of a game plan... I make these arguments for one reason. To show that not EVERY pot in which the government has its fingers is one in which it should be involved. Marriage is one of those things. As far as which church...well, here's the deal. It's not an ideal situation - not every church believes what God's Word actually teaches (as I'm sure you know from personal experience)...yet clearly marriage was taking place long before our government said we needed a license to make it happen, so predating the government, it was clearly governed by something else. To say, 'the church' means that each church performs whatever marriage they see fit. Ultimately, God holds them accountable for their participation in sinful marriages (marrying un biblical divorcees, homosexual marriage, etc.). There would be churches performing those marriages, and homosexual couples would live together and call themselves married, but they can say that now, (the couples I've met say they are "married ")...so nothing changes except the fact that there is no political debates or campaign platforms because of the issue. The Reality is that all of this is already happening...if someone didn't agree with one church's standards for marriage, they could just go to a different church! The legalities of marriage (who gets stuff or kids after one spouse is deceased) can be handled with a lawyer - the government no longer has a role at all because they don't need to oversee or mandate these things. At that point, its just a legal contract tying yourself to this person and your shared belongings. this would be the case of all marriages, with no exclusions, and no favoritism.  (Oct 15, 2012 | post #177)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

I'll briefly touch on the marriage license issue. I'm not sure, butI think, to you, the reason marriage is 'civil' and can't exist without a government is simply because, to you, a marriage is not a marriage unless the government recognizes it and gives a married couple legal considerations. So, two questions. 1.) a. How long have marriage licenses been in existence? b.Did marriage exist before that. 2.)How do you get married. I mean, one moment you're single and the next you're not. What did you do to 'get married.' The license doesn't marry you, it simply permits you to marry legally and to be recognized as a married couple...but what ACTION causes you to get married. Once we're done with these questions, I'll go back to the issue of homosexuality, lifestyle, etc. In response to your accusations: Judging by this comment you make, "to point out your hypocresy", I think it is safe to assume that you did not see my self-correcting comment - post number 158. I've copy/pasted it here for you. In short, I'm not being hypocritical. #158: "Sorry, I'm afraid my third paragraph disagrees with itself. I'm pretty tired today, obviously.:) while I do delineate some differences overall between sexual sin and sexual perversion, I did not mean to say that someone in either could watch my kids. It reads that I might let an adulteress/er watch my children, but not a homosexual. I would not let either watch my children, for the variety of reasons I explain later." My original post, #157, in paragraph three I stated that I might let someone like that watch my child, but at the end I said "However, a single unconfessed and unrepentant sin can negatively affect every aspect of a person over time...so I would not let this person babysit my child if I was aware of it." So, it disagreed with itself...and again, I was pretty tired...my mistake. Also, about your accusation of stereotyping. I was not, nor am I, excusing or condoning prejudice. I am explaining that stereotyping is different and is itself innocuous. It becomes wrong when we allow prejudice to color our stereotypes. To clarify myself, I do not think all homosexuals act like the opposite sex. To say that some or even many do, is a qualified statement, and therefore, is not stereotypical. I acknowledge that I have not met every homosexual and can't say they all do one thing or another. You, however, make a comment about Christians (and I forgive your use of the word thumper) and call it ''christian fact"...then you reference a doctrinal flaw sometimes called 'dispensationalism ,' which not all Christians subscribe to. In assuming this is what all Christians believe just because the ones in your experience do, you have (now hypocritically) negatively stereotyped the rest of us. There are many fundamentalists that refuse to acknowledge the OT as anything more than a history book. Any argument you make to them which stems from there, they automatically disregard. However, it takes an understanding of the old and new covenants to see the OT correctly. The entire testament (every writing from gen-malachi) details life under the old covenant and records ceremonial law (any law resulting from the need for continuing sacrifices) Christ made a once and final sacrifice that fulfills the old covenant and administers that fulfillment to all Christians, freeing us from the need for continued obedience to these laws. Not all laws in the OT were ceremonial though, and those still apply (10 commandments, etc.) I am not a fundamentalist. I am a Presbyterian. I love God, and I love enjoying the wonderful gifts He's given me...good food, good beer, good tobacco, good dancing...things fundamentalists reject as 'sinful' or 'worldly.' There are probably many things you think are universally true of Christians, because of widespread fundamentalism, that I reject...strict KJV useage, blind faith, etc. As a post script: I apologize for my initial reply to you in this forum. It was rude.  (Oct 15, 2012 | post #176)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

Wow! I'm impressed! Not even I have ever posted that much in a row. I'm sorry, though - you seem to be writing back to me under a false assumption about my comments on divorce, and you have put a LOT of words in my mouth, effectively, by trying to argue that, "well if you do/believe this, then you must do/believe that." This assumption that one belief automatically presupposes another is faulty reasoning and is, ironically, very stereotypical. So allow me to set some things straight. I do not excuse un-biblical divorcees from their sin - the only reason I brought up its social acceptability was to show that they have no drive to be socially accepted. It is STILL a sin, and as such, needs repentance, and ignorance, therefore, is no excuse. You can say what you want about difficulty finding babysitters, but guess what? That's my concern, not yours. Additionally, I qualified my statements about homosexuals acting as the opposite sex by saying that not all did....then you go and make a comment about stereotyping. do you realize that not all stereotyping is bad? It's a function we ALL subconsciously perform to save time evaluating new situations by using prior experience. You are not the exception, seeing as you said "Ya but if you talk with the "thumpers " they will say that that is old testament, there for not enforcable under the new covenant." Thumpers meaning Christians, and YOU made no exceptions to your statement. " Can marriage happen without the existence of a government? The answer to that is no. To be legally married one must obtain a marriage license. I appreciate your research into US marraige laws, but I believe you simply have not yet wrapped your mind around my questions. Do you know what a marriage is?? Can Marraige Exist Without A Government? 1st def. by google: "The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife" Yep, it says RECOGNIZED by law, not permissible or declared or approved by. That means that the law and the legal documents simply RECOGNIZE a marriage that is ALREADY in existence before the government was ever involved! More later - gotta go get the children ready to go to the park :) Hey, just so you know, I'm being emphatic, not aggressive. I'm not upset at your comments - I'm actually glad to hear what you're thinking because I suspect many people feel this way and just don't say so...  (Oct 10, 2012 | post #169)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

Sorry, I'm afraid my third paragraph disagrees with itself. I'm pretty tired today, obviously. :) while I do delineate some differences overall between sexual sin and sexual perversion, I did not mean to say that someone in either could watch my kids. It reads that I might let an adulteress/er watch my children, but not a homosexual. I would not let either watch my children, for the variety of reasons I explain later. Ok, that's all! :)  (Oct 9, 2012 | post #158)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

Wow, ok sorry for taking so long to get back to you. We've been crazy busy with the remo :) Ok, so to start with...I'm highly amused by your addition of the words "something you choose" to define lifestyle. That is neither here nor their...lifestyle simply means "The way in which a person or group lives" (courtesy of google). My use of it, therefore, is just to say that certain behaviors or activities are so prevalent/repeated that they actually define someone socially. To your second question: Someone living in the sin of adultery by their remarriage after an unbiblical divorce is commiting sexual sin and should divorce again (since adultery is biblical grounds for divorce, and you commit it by staying married to this new person). The reason the might watch my children while a homosexual is automatically ruled out, is that they have nothing to prove. This kind of adultery is widely accepted so no one is compelled to make others around them be accepting o their behavior. Also, most people don't even know it' a sin...this is their own fault, and doesn't excuse them at all, but this also means they don't have any drive to make others accept their actions. However, a single unconfessed and unrepentant sin can negatively affect every aspect of a person over time...so I would not let this person babysit my child if I was aware of it. How do I think they would influence my child? First and foremost, by allowing someone to babysit my children, I am displaying a great amount of trust in that person - trust that involves their morality. I am saying to my child that this is an example that I am ok with them following. Sin alone is not a deterrent because we all sin...but if someone is incapable of recognizing blatant, obvious sin, then clearly they should not be set in front of my children as examples for them to follow. Men who behave like women, or women who behave like men are likely to somewhat confuse a child's ideas of gender roles....and before you say it, I am aware that not ALL homosexuals openly behave like the other sex, but a large portion of them do. How would I know? I don't have 'esp'...I inquire into the people who watch my children, and if someone is homosexual, someone knows. Second, in my life I have met ONE homosexual that I initially thought was straight...most of them wear it on their sleeve, so to speak, or at the very least have 'tells.' Why should they be denied those rights? You are still presupposing that government interference into the church function of marriage is somehow legitimate. It is not, and so who gets what rights should not be an issue of the federal government determining who can or can't get married. The church should determine that, and then the federal government simply applies married rights to those couples. You never answered my question. Can marriage happen without the existence of a government? If it can, then marriage is clearly not civil in nature, it should not be presided over by the government, it should be left to the church, and it should grant married rights to all whom the churches allow to marry. It is government interference which makes divorce so prevalent. If it were left to the churches, then the verse about remarriage could not just be passed over, and people would realize that to get married really meant till death do us part..that if they got divorced for a reason other than adultery that they couldn't just go marry again and again until they get it right. This makes people more likely to marry hastily, to someone they often know little to nothing about, because if they can just quit and start again with someone else, what does it really matter?  (Oct 9, 2012 | post #157)

Greenville, SC

Thinking of moving to Greenville SC

And the salt on the roads up north will rust out your entire vehicle underside and make it valueless...seems like that might be worse than front end damage.  (Sep 30, 2012 | post #275)

Greenville, SC

the answer to why people remain pill addicts.

I don't think anyone (reasonably) wants to condemn you for your addiction. I've yet to meet the person who was so perfect that they could throw stones :) However, if you really do want to stop taking them, then you need to seek help from people who want to help you. First, if you are in church, you need to approach your deacon/elder and ask for help. This is part of the function of tithe money. second, if you are not in church, begin attending. I am not proposing that churches are to be leeched off of by people who want money, or that you should only attend to get help. It goes both ways - while you are there, you should offer help as you can, the same way that you ask for it for yourself! Third, if you are not attending because you are not a Christian, then I would be happy to talk to you about that and share the Gospel with you, if you'd like me to. If you need some suggestions about churches, just let me know - if I can help in any way, I will. God Bless  (Sep 26, 2012 | post #2)

Greenville, SC

Thinking of moving to Greenville SC

One again, spoken with the love and kindness you'd expect from a true Christian. It's amazing that you managed to meet everyone who lives here in just one year. What about my conversation with you seems 'hick-like?' I've lived here my whole life! When I was 5 months pregnant, I had a total stranger give me $20 in a store cause she heard me say I didn't have enough to buy baby blankets. Now if that's not a Christian act of kindness...  (Sep 26, 2012 | post #272)

Houston, TX

Why I Hate God

Oh? And how much time have you spent learning about who He is to qualify you to make that comment. Your understanding of God based on your experience, be it pleasant or unpleasant, is not sufficient to make a statement clarifying who or what He is...That's bigotry - like meeting someone and making a false assumption about them and then going around spreading that assumption...while not having any real information about that person at all...  (Sep 26, 2012 | post #319)

Greenville, SC

Gay Marriage - Greenville, SC

How did you get pedophilia out of my comment? "don't realize that they're seperate?" Unreal...Again, there are heterosexual people I wouldn't let watch my kids. I give that example to show that I, as a parent, determine who I want to influence my children. Since I think homosexuality is a lifestyle sin, same as lying or stealing, or any other number of things, I would not want that person to influence my family. As to, "sometimes no whit of difference".. .also, non-essential to this debate, but since you said it, I should clarify...my perception of whether or not someone is regenerate is not even remotely important. I can't know the human heart any more than you can, and I don't pretend to. I make my decisions about people (how much time to spend with them, allowing them to watch my children, what topics I discuss with them, etc.) based on how I see them behave overall, their profession of faith or lack thereof, their treatment of myself, my family, my friends...the list goes on. It's not a generalization on my part to say I wouldn't let a homosexual person watch my children, and more so than it is to say I wouldn't let a person who is open and blatant about stealing. If someone makes a lifestyle out of a sin, I can show them love and respect like anyone else, but I must also show love to my children by keeping them from being influenced by that person - not by sheltering them or keeping them away altogether - meeting someone is different than spending the night at their house... My behavior can be loving toward someone without making them part of my inner circle of friends. Just like, for you, there are people you know well and those that you keep at a greater distance for whatever reason you choose - be it that you don't care for their company as much, or you don't like the way they treat other people...or whatever. Learn the facts about child abuse? That's pretty far-fetched seeing as I didn't bring it up in any way shape or form, no matter how you perceived my comment...its not pertinent to this conversation at all. You need to acknowledge your obvious tendency to read too much into simple statements. If there was any confusion on your part, the last bit of that paragraph should have cleared it up. So, seeing as these are your stated reasons for saying I can't, it seems that I can, in fact, deny (hateful) ignorance.  (Sep 26, 2012 | post #155)

Greenville, SC

Thinking of moving to Greenville SC

The shooting happened in Davidson, right outside Detroit.  (Sep 21, 2012 | post #268)