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Christian

Questions for oneness believers

insite, Thank you for the links...but my computer or my isp is unable to access those links...srry! It's an interesting thought you bring up concerning the repetition of a word (such as colt) for grandeur' sake. I'm considering that and await some more thoughts on this topic... Thanks, Kim  (Jun 22, 2008 | post #12)

Christian

Questions for oneness believers

Hi Kevin, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've heard of the egg comparison and ice, this one was nice (am I a poet and didn't know it?)...hehehe. God bless you, Kim  (Jun 22, 2008 | post #10)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

Thanks for the compliment! I also see the sincerity you bring forth in your postings...you speak eloquently.=) I'll continue this later...  (Jun 22, 2008 | post #102)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

I wasn't referring to contradictions brought up by skeptics, but since you mention this I will answer. I think it depends upon the circumstance/conte xt. So, my answer is yes and no! LOLQUOTE who="gundee12 3"] Yes, but didn’t Jesus also rebuke the Pharisees for making up their own commandments?[/QUO TE]Yes he did rebuke the Pharisees over this...BUT I do not consider Paul to be guilty of making his own commandments. (in example and according to your main contentions you have sharedThanks gundee, I appreciate discussions with those(you!=)) who differ in belief as long as it's civil. I could probably name one out of a hundred where this is possible (in this forum and elsewhere). I'd like to add this... I do not consider my biblical perspective to be the norm. The only other person I know who believes similarly to me is my dh(Mel).  (Jun 22, 2008 | post #100)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

I'll finish this later gundee...=)  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #92)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

I consider the bible to be inspired by God. But I do not claim inerrancy or infallibility. This is why I believe it's paramount to thoroughly research as well as pray for guidance from God HimselfI thank you that you bring up the book of Jasher. I will read it and pray about it. I'm open to there being books which should have been included with scripture or at least considered along par with scripture (such as the book of Enoch). But I'm also aware that there have been plagiarisms. (I consider the gospel of Judas to be plagiarism in exampleThere ya' go again with the Paul thing, lol! I thought I explained my thoughts about this apparent discrepancy concerning the law? No disrespect intended towards you either...it appears we both have a one track mind on this matter. =)  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #91)

Christian

Questions for oneness believers

Hello, I'd like to start this off by letting you know that I truly am *open* to your answers to these questions. I'm not a trinitarian in belief. For the record I'd also like to say that it is expectable that there will be differing beliefs on this topic due to the way things are worded in the scriptures. In other words, I think it's fair to say that there is a singular truth about God's existence, but at the same time it's also understandable why people differ in those views. I do not consider either view to be heresy. I exclude the Holy Spirit as being a separate being...but I am still wondering whether there is two or one insofar as Christ and God the Father are concerned. I consider the Holy Spirit to BE God's Spirit. With that said here are the questions... How does oneness belief reconcile this verse? John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and *We* will come to him and make *Our* home with him. If Jesus and God the Father are the same individual, why would Jesus say that WE will come to him and make OUR home with him? You see, even Jesus is referring to plurality. Jesus claimed that He and the Father were one, but does this necessarily mean they were the same individual? When viewing this scripture, isn't it possible that "one" may be referring to unity rather than being the same? John 17:11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We [are.] How can Jesus and God the Father be the same individual if Jesus is subject to God the Father? 1 Cor 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman [is] man, and the head of Christ [is] God. 1 Cor 15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. Why would Jesus make this statement? John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and [to] My God and your God.' Another consideration: 1 John 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And last but not least, why would the apostles make distinctions between Jesus and God the Father repeatedly throughout the epistles such as this.... 1 Cor 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 3:11 . Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you. Feel free to answer any or all...I hope I'm not overwhelming anyone...and thanks, Kim  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #1)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

MANY insults have been hurled in this forum towards those who have faith that their belief is akin to believing in the easter bunny, the tooth fairy or Santa et. al. (which implies childish and ignorant understanding/beli ef on the part of a christian). I do hope you are not considering my sensibilities to be childish? I'd like to approach this another way if you don't mind... I've pondered God quite a bit and my thoughts are this....if you *could* pinpoint God to a *starting point*, before *anything* was created, what would you see? I believe you would see nothing. The essence/Spirit of God IS invisible. In my mind it makes sense that this is the nature of God because physicality implies creation/building. Physical things can be broken down until there is nothing left to be seen. (I'm trying to figure out a way to objectively lay this on the table, lol...sometimes thoughts can be hard to express)...the evidence which can be seen and touched is all around us. Plainly speaking, the visible points to those things which are invisible. Because God is invisible, faith is required. It's also a matter of perspective. What you consider *extraordinary* evidence is already provided from my perspective. ie- I believe it is extraordinary that we even exist. The wonders of the heavens are another example etc. Everything that is physical/visible has something in common. They have all been *built*. Disecting a grain of sand or a particle of dust reveals individual components built to form a complex structure. How you perceive this evidence is up to you, but in my mind this is evidence of a Creator.  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #90)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

Rofl, are you related to my daughter? Because if I told her the sky was blue, she would say it is red. LOLWord semantics gundee! Word semantics! LOL. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your belief either. Nor do I consider myself elevated in superiority over others due to my acceptance of Christ. I'm speaking my heart to you, not what some other has rigidly taught to me...concerning my faith being right, well...of course. Does this mean I'm right about ALL things? Not! hehehe. But here's what gets me about this dilemma. Would it be farfetched to believe that there can be a *truth*? Would it be possible for God to say something and really mean what He says? Surely something has got to be *right*, which means that something else is *wrong*. If *truth* exists at all, wouldn't it be possible that *truth* could be found of and/or about God? And with that in mind, suppose somebody did find the truth, does this neccesarily mean that this person considers themself above others? (I'm not saying you accused me of this, but from the responses of many people in this forum I see they think this wayI think I jumped ahead of myself in the above response. =) I'm not one to browbeat another because over right and wrong. But I cannot say that there is another way to God, other than through Jesus Christ. I believe this is the truth. Black, white and grey exist in this world...just as truth, lies and confusion. To believe that truth *cannot* be found concerning God *is* wrong, IMHO. When you say you place more value on *accuracy* or *inaccuracy*, I wonder if you are thinking along the lines of what is true or untrue? What is true or untrue is where I also place most value.  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #89)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

and btw gundee, I missed your first post...I'm not going to directly reply to every response for the sake of time (and my sanity, hehehe). When I say *defend* I felt as though we were taking a trip around the mulberry bush (so to speak)...in other words repetetive questions/answers to the same question led me to the conclusion that we will remain at opposite sides of the fence.=) Concerning the virgin birth...Paul was writing to those who had *already* received the gospel message. It was not necessary to repeat an already known fact. There were many miracles apart from the virgin birth which Paul didn't mention. This doesn't invalidate the truths which Paul shared. IAMlives wrote: I do not believe Paul was confessing to something devious about himself, sincerely. gundee wrote: I can somewhat understand why you do not believe this…..perhaps, because it would contradict what you’ve been taught, huh? Your comment reflects what I commonly see from skeptics and athesists...a disdain(or undercurrent of disdain) from assumption that christians (ignorantly) believe what they have been taught. My belief in Paul's integrity does not come from what others have taught me, in all sincerity. God's Spirit has bore witness to my spirit that God inspired Paul with much understanding and that he was an honest servant to the Lord. I've witnessed much insult in this forum so I may be somewhat sensitive. God bless you, Kim  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #83)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

There is not a simple answer I can give to you, but I will try. How do I word this? lol....I believe that men were moved by God to write what they wrote, but that also leaves room for *some* inconsistency because men are not perfect. Before the printing press came along, men had to re-write word for word in order to make copies(which does leave room for error). Also original meanings can become tainted between translations. I'm aware of the lost books of the bible (who knows what happened to them, they were either accidentally lost or purposefully lost)...we also read in the book of Revelation where God gives a warning through John that if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. Plus we have the indignation from God through the prophet Jeremiah that the scribes were guilty of using *lying* pens! I don't discuss this very much, mainly because I don't want to hurt anyones faith. How do I maintain faith or reach conclusions concerning God's words? Through MUCH prayer and study. There are many things which took years of research and waiting upon the Lord to guide me into the truth. Understandings found within the bible should be weighed and judged according to the *whole* word of God. Cherry picking verses here and there to prove points leads to false doctrines. (that is a broad topic) Hopefully this won't be offensive to you, but I feel you are at a disadvantage in this regard because of your skepticism (which in turn negates God's Spirit having an active role in your studyI don't think anyone can answer why. Some might have been lost, some may have been removed for ulterior motives...we can only guessI don't consider these to be major discrepencies. One gives a limited view, the other a more detailed view. Now a question for you, out of sincerity. Are you *entirely* rooted in skepticism? What I mean by that is, are you open to belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? The Pharisees searched long and hard in the scriptures but Jesus pointed out to them that they were missing the main point, those words were pointing to Him as the source of life. They were intent upon the *letter* of the law, yet were unaware of the Spirit behind it. Much of the *flavor* is missing from two dimensional discussions such as black and white (ink on paper). The subtle nuances, the facial expressions, and mannerisms all give us hints of where a person is coming from. It is the same way with the scriptures. After I received the message of the gospel by faith and repented of my sins, I received God's Spirit and the bible took on a whole new light to me. I do hope I'm not carrying on toooo much, lol. This is just who I am and my own experiences. God bless you gundee, Kim  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #81)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

the sky......heheheYou 've not offended me. However, I find your comment about you not believing your perspective as being superior a bit disingenuous.(grin ) The fact that we choose one conclusion over another reveals that we hold *one* in esteem/superiority over the other. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. =) In other words, you feel *right* in your conclusions and I feel *right* in mine. The fact that a person disagrees with me doesn't offend meI can only speak from my own perspective. It required faith for me to receive/perceive evidence. I heard the gospel message as a child(although not raised in church) and believed in that message, but as I became a teenager into young adult, I wandered away from my belief. (My testimony is rather lengthy so I won't delve too far). I became born again at the age of 25. Once my faith was firmly rooted and the bible confirmed to *me* as God's word, I started studying mightily (lol)...along with MUCH prayer (asking for the Lord's guidance into the truth). During my early christian walk, I relied upon many various teachers and books to aid me in my learning...but over time I came to realize that most of what these teachers were teaching revolved around greed. It was very disconcerting yet proof (in my eyes) that God's word was trueGod did give Moses the commandments, but the first five books of the bible are not *only* commandments...rig ht? =)  (Jun 21, 2008 | post #80)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

I primarily stick to the NKJV. Well, we seem to have an inconsistency here don't we? As a skeptic, I'm sure that if you lined up all of these verses comparatively by every translation possible, you would still choose those which *appear* to be saying what you believe to be Paul's guile/craftiness/t rickery...lol. I do not believe Paul was confessing to something devious about himself, sincerely. Concerning the many differing translations of the bible, this is a travesty, IMHO. I feel that this points to something many people do not consider. Why? Why are there over 100 English translations of the bible? You won't find that many versions of "Huckleberry Finn" or "Romeo and Juliet", yet we find this with the bible. There are two main reasons I see for this. One, Mark Twain and Shakespear were not God, therefore their words were acceptable to the reader because the author doesn't threaten *man's* position of *being* God! lol. (which actually should cause a person to place more weight into considering that truly, the bible IS the word of God) Two, profit. Plain and simple. Change of wordage is necessary to avoid copyright infringement. The KJV is the only bible which is not bound to copyright which is why you can find hundreds of these versions in any dollar store across the country selling for $ 1.00. Whereas christian book stores are selling leatherbound and gold trimmed extra-versions for over $100 apiece. Talk about profit!  (Jun 20, 2008 | post #69)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

You are basing your opinions on your derived conclusion...that the doctrine of Paul is inconsistent with Christ. I disagree with that conclusion and find no more reason to defend my position. *gringundee, I disagree with your conclusion. Paul did not refute the virgin birth. Mary's line came from the seed of David...thus the reference to David. The timing of the writings does not bother meI'm aware of what you were referring to, and I believe the scriptures I gave you *do* reference that factPaul received the Holy Spirit. According to scripture, the Holy Spirit(God's Spirit) leads and guides a believer into all truth. You have to consider something, Paul was a very busy man. Not only this, but writing was a much larger undertaking than it is today. With that said, I'm sure Paul's main focus was getting to the *meat* of things, rather than dwelling on the minor things.  (Jun 20, 2008 | post #68)

Christian

Do Christians represent Christ well on Topix?

howdyIMHO, objectivity is a person's ability to reach a conclusion for themself. Does it really matter to me what another person/scholar says about the word of God? Unless they are pointing out something I missed (within God's word), I don't have much use for extra-biblical teachers. (being frank with you)(grin). It doesn't matter to me who wrote the first five books of the bible, the basic understanding is there however that these understandings were passed on by MosesI don't have a problem with these *apparent* inconsistencies. I've gone over the bible with a fine tooth comb and I'm aware of many apparent oddities. Does this however negate the main crux of the matter? I don't believe so. In other words, the points which you are bringing up do not alter the main message of truth found within the bible. Per Gen 1 compared to Gen 2....one is an overall view, the other is more detailedI'm aware of Jeremiah 8:8 and I agree with it. However, this does not negate the truth that *is* within the word of GodThe term "Holy Spirit" was not inserted into the bible at the council of Nicea. Nor do I hold to the Nicean creed. God is a Spirit, and His Spirit is holy. Some people believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate being apart from God the Father, but I disagree.  (Jun 20, 2008 | post #67)

Q & A with IAMlives

Headline:

2nd child, lol.

Hometown:

Salem, MO

I Belong To:

God's family;GOD the Father and God the Son/Jesus Christ/King of Kings and Lord of Lords. All knees shall bow/prostrate before Him.

When I'm Not on Topix:

play with our cats & dog; get into DEEP convos w/hubby, or anyone who loves DEEP topics, play games, fix good food, c'mon over for dinner!=)

Read My Forum Posts Because:

they're interesting

I'm Listening To:

His still, small voice...

Read This Book:

BIBLE (NEW KING JAMES VERSION is the best)

Favorite Things:

PRAYER, studying the bible, studying creation ie-animals, insects, heavens etc. (GOD's creation science; not man's). Love, Peace and Joy!

On My Mind:

GOD foremost, secondly my dh, 3rd my dd, including BIBLE PROPHECY and the US in relation to it...and learning to take care of me in the process!=)

I Believe In:

The truth contained in the bible. Jesus died for our sins, we can have access to God by that sacrifice paid for by Jesus. Turn away from unrighteousness, and live for God!