Houyhnhnm

Gay/Lesbian

A sailor's story: 'Don't ask, don't tell' didn't protect me

Oh excellent! I'm rated "mean" and "clueless " for pointing out the teeny weeny bit of hypocrisy. Fine with me, I can live with that. Wouldn't be the first time. But I'm back to the idea of talking the talk and walking the walk, instead of just spewing here on this nearly-pointless forum. As posted by another, Catholics are very active in trying to undo Maine's marriage equality. The Catholics' Knights of Columbus contributed over $1 million to California's Proposition 8, to overturn a right already granted -- $1 million that could have gone to a good cause, instead of going out of their way to be intolerant of secular equality. It really makes no difference what your principles are supposed to be, if your works are these. A literate spider in the corner and a pig wearing 10 lbs of lipstick is still just "some pig." If I were rating you, I'd say you were clueless. Oh, wait, look, someone beat me to it. Damn.  (Oct 27, 2009 | post #52)

Gay/Lesbian

A sailor's story: 'Don't ask, don't tell' didn't protect me

So Mr. Rocha goes to University of San Diego, a Catholic University. How perfect. Because the Catholics are so very tolerant of gays and lesbians. Talk the talk, and walk the walk, Mr. Rocha.  (Oct 18, 2009 | post #23)

Gay/Lesbian

The Gay American Smokeout

Hallelujah! The American Cancer Society has had fliers about tobacco cessation and the LGBT community since at least 2004. Check them out. My advice, and what I hear so rarely, is to keep it constructive -- focus on all the positives. If you or your friend quits for even 24 hours, figure out how you quit that long, not why you went back. The real clue is in the successes, even if short-term, not the failures, even if long-term. Cheers and much success, and a healthier 2009!!  (Nov 20, 2008 | post #1)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

You already defined "speculation " for us, and I was going on that. You said, "drawing conclusions on 'specifics' not actually mentioned is speculation." Another word I might use is conjecture. I don't think I ever said DOMA was up for renewal -- it's not, it's lawBut, Obama AND the Democratic Congress could have control over the order, if they saw it expedient. And those exceptions ARE important. Real people already in Real relationships ARE important. Lift DA/DT first, and *current* same sex couples in the military will be excluded from equal benefits, with no timeframe for DOMA to be withdrawn. No conjecture about it. Lift DOMA first, and no one will be excluded who isn't already. Lifting DOMA could actually be a useful tool for lifting DA/DT, in that no same sex marriages existed at the time DA/DT came about. See how easy that is? (and if it truly makes no difference to you, then lift DOMA first anyway, so as to not take chances.)  (Nov 20, 2008 | post #32)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Trying to keep up, but my day job is interfering with this discussion. Please be patient with me, if you're still interestedWhat you did say was that Obama needs to separate the legal definition from the religious, and that would be a tough sell AND would step all over states' rights. When referring to separation of church and state, "state" does not refer to the individual states, but to our entire secular government, and yes, the federal government could more formally separate church and state without stepping on individual states' rights. And yes, it would be a tough sell, but that has always been the root problem with gay rights ballot measures, and will continue to be at the root of all moralistic issues that conflict with our secular laws. That the states grant marriages is true, and also why a Federal Same Sex Marriage Ban would conflict with states' rights. But states' rights are not free to conflict with federal law, such as the Equal Protection ClauseJust use any high-profile public office, if it suits you better. Yes, their personal public conduct does matter. While it may not disqualify him literally, it does call into question Obama's willingness to look the other way. More specifically, weren't we just talking about DA/DT, and Nunn was a chief instigator of that? If Obama is going to repeal DA/DT, then his Pentagon team IS going to be involved in gay relations, period. Obama simply cannot say he supports all Americans, and by choice employ those who are clearly bigoted. Again, was there no other choice besides NunnExactly. That gov't funding has been more and more freely given to religious organizations who proudly discriminate, and their accountability has taken a similar nosedive. We have less separation of church and state than ever beforeApologies then, I didn't think I was putting words in your fingers but I was trying to follow your logic with another analogy that I thought might demonstrate that your general concept changes when the players change. The BSA is a private, religious-based organization that proudly proclaims to exclude atheists and homosexuals. Should our nation's president be an Honorary President for that type of organization?  (Nov 20, 2008 | post #31)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Not sure how I screwed that up, but you can still figure it out. Sorry.  (Nov 19, 2008 | post #28)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

There is no speculation that if DA/DT were lifted now, without lifting DOMA, same sex couples could not get the same benefits. No speculation whatsoeverAlways, the exceptions, always requiring me to point out that it doesn't matter to you, unless you live in MA, NJ or CT. As long as there are American same sex couples recognized by any state law, lifting DOMA first matters more than lifting DA/DT first.  (Nov 19, 2008 | post #27)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Thank you for taking this effort, YobyagThat was a reference to the most recent lobbying efforts of many gay organizations to pass ENDA for GLB only, not the T's, who were treated as a liability. Sorry, I thought that was widely publicized; at least here on Topix it wasSeparating Church and State throughout the land would not step on any states' rights IMO. I don't think Clinton truly thought that DA/DT was appropriate, but he thought was a step -- and we've not taken another step on that since. I really think we need to be extra careful about what small steps are really appropriate, lest they become permanent. Complacency is too easy for those in our community who feel like they've gotten as much as they will ever getAs for Obama opposing a Constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage, it shouldn't even come up in the next 4 years, so this clearly seemed to be pandering to everyone who would nod in unison and drink in the Democratic cool-aid.... Does that need to be high on the "agenda" ? I still think notJob discrimination? Whoa there. Don't Supreme Court justice nominees get hammered for being sexist pigs? Are there no others qualified for Nunn's job? I'm pretty sure someone with a white pointy hood wouldn't get the job, and that wouldn't be job discriminationReli gious organizations are the KEY opposition to expanding adoption rights throughout this country. And through the Bush years, these same religious organizations have more federal funding, and less accountability for pushing their religion than ever before. Mark my words on this oneI think I predicted that this would seem inconsequential. But I maintain that it is fundamental. The "huge numbers" will look to this as a sign that Obama doesn't see all Americans as equal. And please don't put words in my fingers -- I am indeed promoting inclusion of all, and I am not excluding anyone who agrees that all Americans are equal. I will be glad to exclude al-Qaeda. But to follow your logic, it seems that you would include the KKK -- if they had larger numbers, and that if the KKK were then excluded, it wouldn't be productive. Hmmm. Curious. I don't think Obama would have any problem seeing that differently.  (Nov 19, 2008 | post #26)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Sure thing; ad hominems don't add anything to the argument anywayI think you're the one interpreting things now. I was asking for clarity, and less wiggle room. You must admit, just bulleting "Repeal DOMA" would have been more conciseAs I've said elsewhere, it's really easy to say the order of repeal doesn't matter, if it's not affecting you. Curiously, I notice it seems that "speculation " is always something that "other" people do, not the one declaring it so.  (Nov 19, 2008 | post #24)

Gay/Lesbian

Generals "Come Out" in calling for the repeal of Don't Ask Don'...

LOL. Sweet. Trade your current failed attempt at theocracy in our secular country, for a successful one in Iran? Dude, go for it! Bubbye!  (Nov 18, 2008 | post #79)

Gay/Lesbian

Generals "Come Out" in calling for the repeal of Don't Ask Don'...

Honor? Respect? Integrity? -- the generals and admiral who retired and got their nice comfy pensions, but *never* spoke up while many of the rest of us lost our careers and some even lost their lives (think "Petty Officer Allen Schindler"). Kerr, who also lives here in blue Northwestern California (Santa Rosa), is certainly doing the safe thing.... "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" --Benjamin Franklin "I am convinced that the best service a retired general can perform is to turn in his tongue along with his suit, and to mothball his opinions." Omar Nelson Bradley I know, I know, some of you are undoubtedly going to slam me for not falling all over myself to baste these "heroes" with my undying gratitude. Won't happen. In my book, heroes wear working clothes, not retirement lounge wear.  (Nov 18, 2008 | post #78)

Gay/Lesbian

Generals "Come Out" in calling for the repeal of Don't Ask Don'...

I hear you, but consider that blacks and women, once allowed in the military, weren't kept single by Federal law. Minor problems, again, only if they're not yours.....  (Nov 18, 2008 | post #66)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. But I did read it. Repealing DOMA was not part of the agenda, but was mentioned as an aside, under "Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples", and that leads us back to Brown vs. Board of Education -- a landmark Supreme Court ruling that Separate is clearly *not* equal. There's also the problem of the order with which these things are accomplished -- if DA/DT is repealed before DOMA, that makes a huge difference for GLBT servicemembers. Without DOMA gone, it means there are NO couple benefits within the military that heterosexual couples have, including survivor benefits. Ouch. Speaking of obtuseness and glaring oversights without the ad hominem, that's the best.  (Nov 18, 2008 | post #20)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Thanks, really. Trust me, I don't care for the cloud, and I love the silver lining, but putting our collective heads in the sand won't accomplish anything. Think outside the box we've been put in.  (Nov 18, 2008 | post #18)

Gay/Lesbian

Obama-Biden Lay Out Plans for LGBT Community

Again, I'll say, please defend your stance, I'm listening. How much more willing to discuss something can anyone be? Unless, of course, you have no defense except your defensiveness. It should be easy enough. Just take them point by point, and explain how I've misinterpreted them. I AM willing to listen to evidence, and since it seems you think things are better, not worse, how can any of us lose if that's true?  (Nov 18, 2008 | post #17)