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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, Regardless of my senses, my shampoo bottle (along with the shampoo inside it) exists because it has a state of being, not because it can be felt - or even has spacial separation; can you feel someone else's heartache - or is it an object? Of course not. But it exists nonetheless. It's state of being is 'proof' that is exists; our knowledge of it's state of being is evidence to our subjective senses (if I can say it that way) that it exists. If you really believe that nothing can be proven to exist, then I think anyone can say "you can't prove your car exists", and you would agree... ...or worse...in a court of law you can't have a murder without a murder weapon. If someone were to claim that it can't be proven that the murder weapon exists - I'm afraid you would agree. As much as I've enjoyed talking with you, Humble, I don't think any of the questions I had are now relevant. We can scratch them. :) Enjoy your week.  (Jan 29, 2013 | post #118)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, "NO OBJECT IS OR EVER HAS BEEN PROVEN TO EXIST!" Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying it can't be proven that my shampoo bottle exists? Furthermore, are you saying that it can't be proven that you or I exist? ...remember those guys in the white coats we were talking about some time back? Let's keep them on speed-dial - just to be safe. :)  (Jan 27, 2013 | post #104)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, I think you've done a much better job at defending your position (and explaining things). I'll get around to asking a ton of questions later...most likely after your 'existence' post. To answer yours though, according to what you're saying; if a concept is simply an action (the relation between two objects), then sitting here 'looking' at, say, an image of an advertisement here on topix, [looking] is the concept. The image would have to be the object. Even if the argument were made that the image were the concept, and the monitor were the object - the image would still be the object, because the concept would be the monitor 'displaying' the object (image)? Anyway - tons of questions...  (Jan 25, 2013 | post #94)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, How do Bilbo Baggins and a 2020 beamer - among whatever else - have spacial separation? Are they not concepts? I'll wait for that post when you get to it...as well as your responses for Post 80. Danzig, As far as philosophy goes, the one you recommended sounds very much like a sort of zen buddhism; separate from the topic of this thread (which I wish it wasn't), it makes me wonder how can Alkuajatus claim to "open" minds as opposed to closing them like the others?  (Jan 21, 2013 | post #89)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, My last post posed fair questions and observations, and you seem to be making a shaky attempt at getting me to respond to it for you...? Post #80. http://www.topix.c om/forum/topstorie s/TFMEMNUCQVVUUR7I 6/post80 By responding to Post 80, I think you'll satisfy - at least in part, if not whole - your own request for clarity.  (Jan 20, 2013 | post #84)

Richmond, KY

Best dating sites?

I checked out the main page of this website, and their testimony about theirself... "Welcome to the new and urban dating social network for all your love finding needs! Here at eMackin you can browse personals in your area and connect with other users looking for love, socialize and get your "Mackin" on, Signup 100% free and find that special someone for you. Free dating made easy here!" They make it sound like love is purely physical, and that's what should be pursued... "Love finding needs"; "looking for love"; "get your mackin on"; "dating made easy". It seems pretty sensual and superficial - basically a hook-up site. But that's just me... ...I know I'm not the youngest buck in the field, but I'm pretty sure there's more to someone than what they bring physically. I'm not saying that I think you engage in that sort of behavior, but I am saying it's not so easy to find out if someone is being real or not. It's a time-test, so to speak. If they're real, and are really interested in you, they'll stick with you; if they're not, they'll try to get you into bed, and if it doesn't work, they'll eventually stop talking to you because you're not putting out; that means he was never interested in *you*...just your body. I know you didn't ask for my advice, but I thought I would share anyway... Be careful out there! :)  (Jan 20, 2013 | post #10)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

I agree that something can exist without us knowing about it. How do you mean "measure " whether something exists or not? Isn't that assuming to have to know the dimensions and location of something in order to say that it exists? ...not necessarily saying something doesn't exist just because the dimensions and location are unknown. And because we can't say it doesn't exist because we don't know the dimension and location of it...it can exist. Then I would certainly agree that many things become subjective - but not the existence of something. Some things exist whether we want them to or not, and some things don't, regardless of subjectivity. However, isn't it possible to be wrong about a subjective interpretation? Therefore, isn't it possible that some one/thing else's view is right? Perhaps subjective to the individual because they're unaware of the absolute truth at the time, but absolute truth nonethelessI agree. That would bring us to debating if only objects can exist - and what an object is. If it's something with dimension and location, would that not be subjective (what an object isI'm not sure that it would matter; if our knowledge of an object's existence is irrelevant, then how relevant are it's dimensions and locationIf I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, you're saying that you *believe* absolute truth doesn't exist because you haven't observed it as an object? Because you haven't observed it, you don't have the knowledge to declare it doesn't exist...you simply believe it doesn'tI understand that an example is not the same as a definition. Like you said before, such a basic definition - though can be done - may not be so easy. As far as determining the existence of absolute truth, see my above questions about believing it. I think both "sides" in the belief of it, would be just in attempting to shift the burden of proof - though I think it would be unnecessary. It's belief...for now. Much like theory, I think.  (Jan 19, 2013 | post #80)

Richmond, KY

Sheriff, where do you stand on gun control?

And how is that a good thing? The careless police having more bullets than the responsible gun owning citizen? I'm not sure how a 7 round magazine would eliminate semi-autos. Many high-caliber semi-auto pistols are only about 8 rounds. Personally I only keep 7 rounds in my 1911, because the spring in the clip is weak (just a bad spring) and the 8th round will jam. I keep 27 rounds in my AR mags because I don't want the springs to weaken in those. My shotgun? 7+1. Regardless of how many rounds I kept, they would still be semi-auto. And just to clarify, even a fully automatic weapon is not an assault weapon until it's used against someone as an offensive tool. So this 'assault weapon' ban, is completely bogus. If it goes that far, we may as well force the MLB to convert to wiffle-ball, because even a baseball bat can be an 'assault weapon'. 'Assault Gun'? Symantics. A gun is not an 'assault' gun until it's used in such a manner either. As far as I'm concerned, all tools are defensive tools until used otherwise. Some of us responsible folks really do just like to go out and shoot down at a range because...well..it 's fun.  (Jan 18, 2013 | post #12)

Richmond, KY

How often do starting substitute teachers get called in M...

I agree that there are facts and truths that do exist whether anyone believes in them or not - in my opinion making them absolute. And scientific facts are not dependent on anyone believing in them, they are facts. Your challenge for wanting me to prove God exists is un-grounded; I was never trying to prove God in my post - though I won't back down from claiming to believe in Him. My argument for evolution not being taught is schools was based on the LACK of proof (scientific fact) that declares it would be a fact otherwise. Evolution is not a fact, it's a belief - and I fully support everyone's freedom to choose to believe whatever they want. But even if 99% of the world's population believed in something, that wouldn't make it true. As for "people like me" being the reason our country is falling to pieces...see my above statement. This religion being taught is schools is also tax supported - which I completely disagree with. Again, it has never been proven. Can you provide references for the many times it has been proven (as you claim)? How can you know what I will or will not believe? Just making such a claim tells me that you're most likely an unreasonable person. Furthermore, it's my goal to keep ALL religion out of the classroom, and with that, the lies that are in the textbooks and being taught there. Science class, is for Science facts. Not beliefs. If a teacher *wants* to teach evolution, I think it should be done in a private school, where parents would have to pay to have their child taught that religion, and not the tax payers. I don't want my money going to spreading this ill-claimed garbage anymore than Richard Dawkins would want his money going to teach Creation. Ending on that note, I would like to apologize to the OP for this thread taking a different turn. Have a nice day!  (Jan 18, 2013 | post #24)

Richmond, KY

How often do starting substitute teachers get called in M...

"teacher ", Sounds like you're just pointing the finger back at the student or the parent... If you work 3/4 of the year, but only get paid 3/4 of the year...good. You shouldn't get paid for not working - just like anyone else. I'm sure being a teacher has it's pressures, but remember, you *chose* to become a teacher in the public system. I personally know an English teacher in the public system, and she constantly gripes about her job, the anxiety of it, and how it's not fair an "uneducated " person can work at the depot can make 3x as much as she does, and she has a degree. Again, she (and any teacher) *chose* that profession, and so chose that salary bracket. If they're in it for the money, then maybe they should have been a little wiser in college and chose a better career path? I know for certain a teacher can use the bathroom between classes just the like the students can; furthermore, with technology today, teachers can have their classes monitored over the intercom if they have a bathroom emergency. As far as leaving the building for an hour lunch...there are MANY professions who don't allow something like that, and only give 30 minutes for lunch. I don't know how often a teacher gets a break throughout the day, but also keep in mind being a teacher is not as laborious as other professions - and again, being a teacher is a chosen profession, and stuff like this should be thought of before getting in to it. I believe you when you say students don't listen, and not for a second would I jump to the side of a child's word over a teacher's word, or the other way around. As far as them receiving a better education in the public system is better than the parent thinks...that's a very subjective argument. If you think brainwashing young minds someone else's religious beliefs, and calling it "science " is a better "education " than what they may receive at home, then I certainly challenge that idea. Can you prove the universe is billion of years old? Can you prove chemical evolution? Can you prove stellar evolution? Can you prove biological evolution? Can you prove the claim of the "missing link"? Of course not. These are beliefs. None of us knows how old the universe is...we *believe* we know, but that's exactly it; belief. Some believe in macro-evolution, but that can't prove that man evolved from ape; so they choose to *believe* it. This belief system is being taught in the public education system, and is tax supported. That's why I gripe about those taxes; they're being used to indoctrinate children with someone else's religious beliefs. There are *GREAT* teachers in the public system; but those great teachers just sit by and let those kids continue to act like animals, because they're being taught that they are animals...and the teachers act like it's out of their hands. When in fact, it's up to the teacher what curriculum is taught in class...evolution or creation. Check out the state and local laws on what a teacher is allowed to teach in their class. Happy educating!  (Jan 17, 2013 | post #22)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, "'Universal' and 'absolute' are interchangeable terms." You asked me to define 'absolute', which I have, and now have redefined, and made distinction between the two; how can you claim they are interchangeable when they have different definitions? "When I said verification of 'absolute truth' is impossible in the universe; this would also apply to the world." I agree that verification would be impossible (maybe), but I disagree that just because it's impossible to verify in the universe, it would also apply to the world; simply because the world is much smaller than the universe, that would make it much more feasible to verify in the world than in the universe. "How could we verify 'truth' for all points in the past or every point in the future?" That was part of my point about choosing to believe whether absolute truth exists or not; verifying it is a separate matter. "Also, keep in mind, I am only addressing the problem of verifying 'absolute truth'." Re-read my comments about omnipresence and omniscience. :) "The problem of absolute truth 'existing' still remains. ONLY objects with location can be claimed to exist." Why? Because someone said for something to 'exist' it has to have dimension and location? If I speak, do the words I speak exist? Do they have dimension and location in whatever frequency is used to carry the sound? Using this definition, I would say they certainly do exist, and it could be verified by finding the disruption in the soundwaves that are the words that were spoken. Thus, just by saying "absolute truth exists", would that prove that it exists? Personally, I disagree that in order for something to 'exist' it has to have dimension and location; I think objects have dimension and location, but something doesn't have to be an object to exist. "Is 'absolute truth' an object or concept?" How would this matter pertaining to it's existence? :)  (Jan 17, 2013 | post #76)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Absolute Widgets* Sorry.  (Jan 16, 2013 | post #62)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Humblebee, I think I'm beginning to understand a little better of where you're coming from in all this... If we could still use my definition of absolute; if something were true at every place, simultaneously at every point in time in the world, would it be an absolute truth because it isn't true at every place, every time in the Universe - only in the world? This makes me want to place a distinction between 'absolute', and 'universal', where 'universal' would be the former, and I think would be what's being argued in this thread (maybe?). Whereas 'absolute'...I would have to give more thought to. I did enjoy your comment about 'universal widgets'. ;) If I can remark about God-like omnipresence; I think this would certainly have to be true. Because we can't be at all places, at all times, simultaneously, we can't know if universal truths exist or not; these things we would have to choose to believe or reject. If 'absolute' truths were on the same playing field, so to speak, I think we would also have to choose to believe these, but with consequences. Where the truth would be true whether we accepted it or not. For this, I think God-like omniscience would be required as well - because we're not all-knowing. I think there are some things that are simply true whether we accept them or not. As for both universal and absolute truths, I believe (key word) they exist. To believe they don't...would be belief as well.  (Jan 16, 2013 | post #61)

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Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

I think the furthest anyone could go would be to say there *might* be no absolute truth. Not to simply declare there isn't.  (Jan 15, 2013 | post #54)