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Religion

Only man is fit to be God.

Only man is fit to be God. There is no higher form of intelligent life as far as we can tell with any confidence. Man has already proven that he can produce better laws than any of the Gods so to want to have man led by a God with less moral values would be like us electing Satan. We are a part of the animal kingdom. In this kingdom, all animals look to their own kind for guidance and the best rules for them to live their lives by. These they learn from instincts. Man seeks the same best rules to live life by and not only uses his instincts and feelings, he also uses his intellect and reason. Religions would have us emulate some absentee Gods while knowing that they are less moral and intelligent in their laws than man. That is why religions tend to not try to have holy laws put into our societies. They are way too draconian. If all other animals emulate their fittest as God, in the sense of the best rules for life, then why do some humans want to follow what can only be called an alien God? Humans should rule over humans. No alien God should ever be let to rule over us even if one did show up. Do you agree and if not, why not? Regards DL  (Friday Aug 29 | post #1)

Religion

Can you love on command?

Can you love on command? Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV) 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ------------------ ------------------ ---------- Jesus should know, --- if intelligent at all, that an emotions like love cannot be commanded or demanded from people. Whatever force was driving Jesus to put that command into our reality, be that force or God real or myth, could not have been a very intelligent force. You recognize those you love and who return the emotion by works and deeds. Can one be effectively ordered to love knowing that true love, as with true faith, must have deeds, works and reciprocity? Imagine you never doing anything for those you love. They would and could not know you love them. Imagine those who profess loving you without them ever showing it by actions. You could never know that they love you. Can you love on command a God that is not here and unable to share that love? Can you love your neighbor without doing something for him? Is love a one way thing or must it be returned to be real love? Are the so called great commandments unworkable rhetoric? You should know that I think we are basically all living those commandments in a partial and blind way, as we are collectively helping our poorer neighbors. It is the intellectual efficacy or veracity of those commands that I question. Regards DL  (Friday Aug 29 | post #1)

Religion

Women. Religionís longest running victims.

Women. Religionís longest running victims. Here we are in civilized and enlightened societies and cultures in high tech times and we are not smart enough to recognize that the world will continue in strife as long as we men do not give women full equality as a minimum to what men should do towards the care of families. I hope you are astute enough to see this. If you do nothing then you know not what duty to your family should be. The women in your family deserve to be first class citizens. Men are maintaining Godís curse against women. He will rule over you. Men. Christians, Catholics and Muslims. Free your women. Itís time. Man up. Please. Regards DL  (Thursday Aug 28 | post #1)

Religion

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you? People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans, lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than Godís own life and that he would give it up for believers. That is like a slave master dying in place of his slave. A rather silly notion to me. Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride. How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/Godís showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you? That is taking self-pride to the maximum. I think that those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence. Yet Christians who think they are moral will believe that God would do such a despicable thing as having his son killed even as scriptures say that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and does not believe in asking or accepting a ransom. Is thinking that to believe that God would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego? If not, what could possibly inflate an ego more than that? Regards DL  (May 31, 2013 | post #1)

Religion

Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.

Moral men and women will deny women equal rights. Seeking and demanding sanctity is one of the main five best rules of morality. Those rules shown below closely resemble most religious rules. For humankind to give an idea sanctity they must give sacrifice to it. The sacrifice that we must all do is deny women equality and give men a lower position in rulership. Men must bend the knee to women and elevate them to our ultimate sovereign. Those women and men who do not demand this are not in the best moral state of mind and should try to move to it. We are all natural animals and follow the hierarchical rules of those species which have Alpha males. The main survival strategy of such a species is that the Alpha males will fight to the death to insure that the Beta females live. Females, as the incubators of life and the most important within that species, must have the highest protection to insure that they will survive to continue the life of that species. Men, being the most physically powerful and having a more natural tendency to rule, must take a leadership role to insure this continuity. The Alpha of any species fights to insure that the Beta always has the highest position. The Kings and all other men IOW, must rule as the power behind the throne but the Queen is the one who must always sit on that throne and rule over the King. The research done by Mr. Haigt shows that the right wings of religions and politics show more concern with tribalism than do the left wings. It appears then that if we are to move to the most advantageous moral position then it is to the right wings to promote it. As an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian, I am the left of center and not in the best camp to sell the view that women should rule even as I recognize that they should. The right has been given a wakeup call thanks to president Obama being re-elected. FMPOV then, the right needs a new platform if they are to survive, as they should to balance the political spectrum. Generally speaking only; women are the weaker of the sexes and are better places to know what the requirements of survival are and should thus rule. Women should then demand the full protection and sacrifice of the Alphas males as that is the natural order of hierarchical species and must be to insure survival. This sacrifice gives sanctity to our species and insures itís longevity. The religious and political right seem better suited to lead towards this end. In my opinion, men and women who do not agree with this premise are not taking the best moral position for families or for society at large. This issue is more in the hands of men than women and in that sense men would be more immoral than women if they do not deny women equality and place women above themselves. Should the religious and political right take up this best moral position and demand that equality be denied to all women and demand that they be given their rightful and natural position above men? Please see the research and logic behind this premise. http://blog.ted.co m/2008/09/17/the_r eal_differ/ http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=jHc-y McfAY4 Regards DL  (Nov 13, 2012 | post #1)

Religion

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you? And if you cannot, why would God punish you? Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind. That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to -fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem. If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you? Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankinds responsibility and not some imaginary Gods. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld. Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution. Consider. First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil. In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act. Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm. As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate. Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times. Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct. This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well. Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil. There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition. These links speak to theistic evolution. http://www.america magazine.org/conte nt/article.cfm?art icle_id=1205 http://www.youtube .com/user/ProfMTH# g/c/6F8036F680C1DB EB If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin. If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of its nature and instincts. http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=HBW5v dhr_PA Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you? And if you cannot, why would God punish you? Regards DL  (Aug 17, 2012 | post #1)

Religion

Does God ---- Do unto others?

Does God ---- Do unto others? There are many instances in scriptures where God does not follow the golden rule. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. In the sacrifice of Jesus, God demanded that Jesus bear the sins of the wicked who will repent. This is hardly doing unto others or following the advice of scriptures. ------------------ ---------------- Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking): Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Hell can hardly be called a good thing. This again is hardly Jesus doing unto others or following the advice of scriptures. ------------------ ----------------- Does the God you know follow the golden rule? How can he be doing so when a good God would find a good and moral way to convert instead the draconian methods he seems to use that go against the golden rule and his own good advice in his scriptures? Regards DL  (Jan 23, 2012 | post #1)

Religion

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

C W. Why would God kill the souls he is said to love? He can just as easily cure them. Why take the moral low ground when the high ground is just as easy for him to take? What would you do with his power? Kill or cure? Regards DL  (Nov 30, 2011 | post #3)

Religion

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell? My premise is that God would not create anything that is purposeless. If Godís everlasting hell is not serving a purpose, God would not create it since scripture says that God created all things for his pleasure and for himself. Punishment is usually given to change ideas, attitudes and actions of a sinner. If punishment is given for any other reason, then it is being given without an altruistic purpose and would be given out of a sense of cruelty. Is there an altruistic purpose for God creating hell? If no good result is to be gained from everlasting punishment, is it just for God to give it? http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=bA_K5 BZmQFM http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=SF6I5 VSZVqc To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these simple questions for yourself. 1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 120000000000000000 00000000 + years? 2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs? 3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions is to result? 4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose? Is hell a moral construct or not? Regards DL  (Nov 29, 2011 | post #1)

Religion

Who is the epitome of Evil, God or Satan?

Who is the epitome of Evil, God or Satan? Though shalt place no one above me. Satan did not as he followed Godís instructions with Job. He was firmly under Godís control. Many have jumped through hoops to make anyone other than God the most evil in existence yet scripture says that God gets the Gold star in all categories. Even as the most evil. After all, he is said to have created the concept of law. The Word. All Goods and Evils. The first divisive tool for social manipulation and control. http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=sh1qW ZWNGGE God is said to have just about all attributes that man has been able to imagine. God has been reduced to our wish list. Including the creator of an everlasting hell to entertain our more hateful wishes. God is still ashamed of what he has wrought as in the days of Noah. Mythical Noah the is. Even after using genocide to reboot his systems. Strange. Another failure. God, if he were real, seems to have two messages for us. Do as you are told and do not think too much. Hence faith to drive away logic and reason. As the epitome of Evil, Satan runs a poor second place to God. Have we put the blame for creations evils on the created, Satan, when it was God, who, as the epitome of Evil, shirked his duty of taking responsibility for what he as God sowed. That also would mean that Bishop John Spong was right and God is guilty of child abuse by putting the responsibility for his works on Jesus. Do as I say and not as I do is Godís policy. I also would argue against his policy or rewarding what he calls rebellion. I E. Giving Satan dominion over mankind and rewarding Cain with a kingdom for murder. Not a good thing for the law maker to do. Two stains on his Gold star. Is God the epitome of evil? Is that the moral lesson of the flood myth? What does that say of the literalists who follow Noahís God and think that genocide is good justice? Regards DL  (Aug 8, 2011 | post #1)

Religion

Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Why do you follow a genocidal God? Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral. http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=TK1Db cIbHt4&playnex t=1&list=PLC76 727A34E740D99 I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not. The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself. http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=dx7ir FN2gdI Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position. Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us. Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective? As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one? What attracts you to a genocidal God? Is it just that might makes right? We are to emulate God. Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice? Regards DL  (Aug 3, 2011 | post #1)

Religion

Are Evangelicals and conservative Christians the Anti-Chr...

Are Evangelicals and conservative Christians the Anti-Christ? In the tribal conditions of the ancient world, it is not surprising that Christians would be hated. Revelation shows the destruction of all except Godís chosen. Evangelicals and literalists, pray for this genocidal destruction to happen in their lifetimes. That is a lot of hate coming from those who profess to love all of mankind. Some would say that these so called Christians, are not of good heart and do not follow their own religion, bible or a loving Christ. Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Some would in fact say that these Christians are traitors to the society they hate. In the old tribal days, and even today, those who do not believe as Evangelicals, literalists and conservative Christians do, would see these as traitors and haters and would get their backs up, as most humans being would automatically do, and hate these Christian traitors right back. It is no wonder then, and some ancients would say quite fittingly, that these traitors should be fed to the lions. Hate being returned for the hate that these Christians show to society. It is not too surprising then to see why Christians were persecuted in the old days. They deserved it as far as the other tribes were concerned as they were showing hate for all others in wishing and praying for their death in this life as well as everlasting torture for eternity in the next. What a game for your God to play if such were true! Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place for eternal suffering. Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over. And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into the place for eternal suffering and which to cling to and love in the place for eternal bliss. Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible. Evangelicals and followers of Jesus should thank God that they live in a world that has lost some of itís tribal ways, not themselves of course, and society allow these who hate them so much, to remain untouched in todayís environment. These Evangelicals and literalist believers think themselves as followers of Christ yet Christ was of love while they are of hate. They are anti their own bible as shown with Rom 12;21. If the bible is the word of God as they believe it is, then they are anti-bible and therefore, biblically speaking, Anti-Christ. They definitely are not cut from the same cloth that Jesus was. Are these Evangelicals and literalist believers the Anti-Christ of scripture? Is the term traitors to humanity a fitting label for these misguided Christians? Regards DL  (Jun 29, 2011 | post #1)

Religion

Can you know God without understanding or recognizing his...

Can you know God without understanding or recognizing his perfect works? The whole notion of knowing and following God, is to know how he works and thinks, tied to a belief that he is perfect in all things and has the miracle at hand to create things the way he wants. Scripture tells us to look to the universe around us for proof of his reality. Logic and reason tell us the same thing. This indicates that we should see the perfection of his works all around us. Deut 32;4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Mat 7;18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. The logic trail of these two verses says that Godís works all begin as perfect and that that perfection is maintain and passed up through history. I like to think I know a bit about God because, as I look about, I see that ever lasting perfection as it moves to a more perfect state over time. Evolving perfection. Consider a baby, all babies including you and I. We all begin life as perfect as nature, or God, can produce with our DNA and all other conditions at hand. This is a truth even if we are born with flaws and is irrefutable in terms of both nature, logic, reason and the Bible. This truth led to my apotheosis and knowledge of God and nature. I offer it here for your contemplation and comments. I cannot see anything that would my view but am willing to listen. If you cannot see the perfection that I do, then I will try to persuade you. Perhaps the best way to begin would be in you opining on the following and telling me whether you think it is a cynical view of life or if it is a real and true view of life. Candide "It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.Ē http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=zPClz IsYxvA Regards DL  (May 11, 2011 | post #1)

Religion

Catholics around the world celebrate John Paul II

http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=cQ9sJ VJMiYM Regards DL  (May 3, 2011 | post #2)