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Islam

Muslim views on apostasy - Shocking

As a person who still has many "moderate " (I prefer the term "ignorant about Islam") friends, I can fully relate. I often subtly sneak in some of the outrageous laws and practices about Islam in conversations with them. First they try to protest "I don't believe that!, "That's not TRUE Islam bro". Then I just show them the words of the Qur'an, Hadith, or respected sheikhs who said them and they go quiet. Then they just try to ignore it. As Nietzshe once said, “Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.”  (Mar 5, 2013 | post #18)

Islam

Muslim views on apostasy - Shocking

I agree completely! The Muslims response is always: "Our Holy Islam is beyond your petty laws and morals. We are the truth. No one should be allowed to leave the truth." It's quite bewildering how that passes as a valid argument for them.  (Mar 5, 2013 | post #17)

Islam

911 was an inside job - muslims were scape goats !

The intelligence on this thread is overwhelming (not). Apparently the works of random internet amateur "investigator s" and "truth seekers" are more credible than the numerous scientific and professional work done against it. When you say your facts are "irrefutable " and that 911 is "proven" to be a "conspiracy ", it really is amusing. It always bewilders me how when the majority of scientists, engineers, and historians refute any on the truther claims, they are always accused of being part of the conspiracy. Apparently thousands of professionals and government workers are all part of a massive and ridiculous conspiracy, and not a single white house employee has ever come out with the truth, like has happened in actual real conspiracies like Watergate. Muslims of course want to believe in this conspiracy, as it gives them a way to escape the fact that Islamic extremism has become extremely deadly to both muslims and non muslims.  (Mar 4, 2013 | post #30)

Islam

Muslim views on apostasy - Shocking

Here’s a good one: "basic human rights and freedom of religion belongs in the toilet."  (Mar 3, 2013 | post #8)

Islam

Muslim views on apostasy - Shocking

Apparently all of them. One lady tried to defend that people should have a right to believe in what they want without fear of death, but she was quickly silenced bby the others who condemned her because she was inventing new ideas that "contradicted the divine laws of the prophet, the quran, the shariah, and the fiqh". It's just disturbing to see how widespread this brutal mindset is amongst Muslims. They were lamenting the fact that more and more were turning away from Islam, and all I had to say was, "Good!".  (Mar 3, 2013 | post #7)

Islam

Muslim views on apostasy - Shocking

It would be awesome if we could get some guys here to head on over and troll them. Feel like we should distrub their little dream of Islam being a pure and perfect religion.  (Mar 3, 2013 | post #4)

Islam

Muslim views on apostasy - Shocking

So I decided to perform a little experiment today, the little scientist in me budding through. I visted Ummah.com, one of the largest Muslim forums on the internet. I thought, maybe it was time to reach out to a large sample of Muslims, and get their opinions on certain topics. I joined and posted a discussion asking about what they feel should happen to those who leave or criticize Islam... and let's say I'm pretty disgusted and horrified on what they said. http://www.ummah.c om/forum/showthrea d.php?356658-Apost asy-Blasphemy-Puni sh-by-death-or-tol erate Let me quote: "According to sharia, they are to be tried by the leader and he deals with them in such a manner (execution according to the law of Allah)... I do believe they should be dealt with the way Allah and our Prophet told us to deal with them." "I dont know what you trying to get from us, the rules on apostasy are crystal clear no matter how many "educated " westerns disagree with it Muslims will never changed or alter the divine teaching of Prophet Mohammad to please the kaffirs" "Blasphemers are to be killed. Apostates are a controversial case. Some scholars advocate death after imprisonment for three days, others say they can only be killed if they cause fitna amongst Muslims." "Thus, when people claim to be of it, then leave it, and then spread mischief callers others away from it, death is better to them then continued life. It's a mercy, for If they continued, their place in hell would be lower, and lower, and lower. We judge law by the belief of an afterlife 100% without a shadow of a doubt. Thus, death is not a "bad" thing If it is done to pervent chaos." My goodness... this idiot thinks it's a "mercy" to kill apostates. You can read more if you want, it just makes me so furious to see how backwards, violent, and brutal these people are.  (Mar 3, 2013 | post #1)

Islam

I renounce Islam

Oh my goodness you have just described our Pakistani house parties perfectly haha! And yes 90% of them are segregated, but the ones in which women and men are in in the same house, I observe the exact same thing. The amount of gossiping the aunties do is unbelievable, its like a fully time hobby for them. And don't even get me started on the discussions the uncles have, every party its a pointless debate on random politics. Ah good old Punjabi culture!  (Feb 25, 2013 | post #372)

Islam

I renounce Islam

Haha no, all the dawats in my community are male/female segregated anyway. But yes, while I may secretly reject Islam, I still love the Arab, Persian, and Indian food they serve at Eid haha.  (Feb 24, 2013 | post #370)

Islam

I renounce Islam

It is very hard indeed, and yes I do read namaaz with them. Even on occasion I am asked to lead. Whenever they go to the masjid, I too have to come along. I go along quietly during Eid, doing as they do to avoid suspicion. As much as I would be allowed to be left to be own beliefs and practices, I cannot. Muslims do not accept anyone to leave or criticize their religion, even willing to disown or cut off relations with anyone who does, and even in Muslims countries like Pakistan, punish them with death or stoning. So I wait patietly, hoping one day things change,  (Feb 24, 2013 | post #367)

Islam

Islam and Science:Road to Renewal

The Indian mathematicians were the first ones to invent the zero, as in the works of Pingala or Aryabhata. Even Al-Khawarzmi, the famous Persian mathematician called them Indian numerals and had a great deal of respect for their work. He called their numeral system "more superior to the Roman one" and decided to use them in his own mathematical treatise 'The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing', which extensively praised and built upon the Indians (and Greeks) for their mathematical prowess. To his credit, he built upon their knowledge and invented Al-Jabr (what we now clall Algebra) and solved basic quadratic functions. Both Persian and Indian scientists accomplished a lot. Give praise where it is due, and do not belittle the accomplishments of other peoples just because you have an irrational hatred of them.  (Feb 24, 2013 | post #213)

Islam

I renounce Islam

Thanks Ravenclaw that seemed to work!  (Feb 22, 2013 | post #361)

Islam

I renounce Islam

I will just post that message I sent L4ALL for all to see: Just to confirm I was a Sunni Muslim, and the hadith about women was the tipping point that caused me to reevaluate everything I thought about Islam. Moreover, my current world view I would say is that of an atheist, or at least anti-spiritual. Anyways back to answering your question. The thing is I did NOT prove these verse correctly or scientifically, that's the whole thing. I took those verses straight from the Islamic creationist Harun Yayha (AKA Adnan Oktar) and his website as well as his book, "The Atlas of Creation". However these verses are translated rather erroneously, and make several deviations from the mainstream and traditional translations. I will rebut one verse in particular: [51:47] "And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and it is We Who are steadily expanding it." According to the mainstream translations: Yusuf Ali: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of space. Pickthal: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof). Shakir: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample. This immediately negates the verse I used earlier. I will simply summarize by saying that Quranic cosmology is ridiculously wrong and incorrect, often ripping straight from the bible. The reason I really reject those verses I once used to support Islam, is because now I have a much more thorough and professional education in the sciences. I have been able to more carefully examine the content in the Qur'an, and realized that it does not hold up to scientific and rational scrutiny. I could go on in detail rebutting each of those verses, but those links I mentioned go into much more detail that I can go here in this short post. In summary, I was NOT operating scientifically and logically as you propose. In fact reading those posts, it is quite embarrassing how often I burst out into nonsensical rants, such as my denial of evolution, which I now know to be a preposterous thing to do given my education and and amount of learning in that subject. Any more questions and I'd be happy to answer them.  (Feb 22, 2013 | post #360)

Islam

I renounce Islam

Finally it appears to be working. And as you requested L4ALL I will rebut more of the verses I originally stood behind later tonight. However, I do believe Marco is right when he talks about the "believer " effect. It is very easy to twist information around to suit your beliefs, whether you do so consciously or unconsciously. For I demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the subject matter, and when I did come to that understanding later on in life, it changed my view of them. Then it became clear that the arguments I used to support those verses were based off incorrect translations, and complete ignorance of some of their gaping flaws (eg. the order of how the mountains, stars, sun, and moon were created).  (Feb 22, 2013 | post #357)