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Gay/Lesbian

The View Comes Under Fire for Comments About Black Men, H...

It's about stinking time. They have been spreading lies, false accusations, upholding negative stereotypes and misinformation for YEARS. Anybody else remember during the heat of the Prop 8 debates when they were on making all sorts of horrible ignorant remarks about gay men, black gay men in particular, talking like they had FACTS, when Whoopi finally stepped up and said, "you know, we should actually HAVE a GAY MAN on this show when we have this conversation... " and they blew her off and continued. They should have been called on their hearsay bullS**t LONG ago.  (Jul 12, 2010 | post #4)

Gay/Lesbian

First Amendment Clash Brewing Over Gay Pride Festival in ...

ugh. yes it is, Rose :-) Pride-ful weekend indeed. Happy Pride to you, too !!  (Jun 23, 2010 | post #9)

Gay/Lesbian

The courage to come out

People's hearts and minds can only change when they see their neighbor, church member, teacher, professional, colleague, little league advisor -- when they see us as part of society's fabric as opposed to some freak show separate from it. Yes, I love all of the diversity under the rainbow flag, for sure. But when more people come out, they can't fit us into one strange and weird stereotype. They see us as people all over the continuum. I'm not out at work, because like you, my job would be tougher. However, I am quietly out, and those people who need my support know they have it.  (May 30, 2010 | post #4)

Gay/Lesbian

Judge rules in Maine gay marriage case

Democracy can't really operate behind a veil of secrecy. If people really feel that strongly about relegating a group to 2nd class status, then they should be asked to stand up when they make that statement, and not hide behind anonymity. NOM might as well be wearing white hoods and robes... now there's another group that was most effective when its membership was kept secret.  (May 25, 2010 | post #5)

Gay/Lesbian

Yep, Lesbians Do Go To Prom

When was the last time you signed up to chaperone prom? I teach in a rural Midwestern out-state high school. Granted, it is larger than neighboring communities, but even we have a GSA (Gay-Straight-Alli ance support and social club.) Meaning, if there are gay students (who also date...) here, they are probably present in just about every school district. And gay kids like to go to prom, too. Perhaps they didn't in years past because they knew they would be ridiculed. But today's students have found their voices, and are not willing to sit quietly on the sidelines. There have been same-sex dates at our school prom for probably a decade. Neither the student body nor the administration would protest. Do some students snicker? Of course. It is high school, where pecking orders are stringently enforced. But a same-sex date at a dance is hardly abnormal. According to ReligiousTolerance .org, "Thousands [of GSAs] have been organized the U.S." Statewide directories number clubs for some states in the 100's. Meaning, gay students have the support from other gay and straight classmates in their schools to show up at school events. It's not as abnormal as your dated view of high schools might lead you to think. Most kids these days don't even bat an eye. Whether they agree, disagree or whatever their feelings are towards gay people, having them show up in public doesn't cause the outrage that it did recently in MS.  (Mar 16, 2010 | post #9)

Gay/Lesbian

Demand John Mayer Apologize for Using F-Word

hey I really appreciated your comments. Level-headed and common sense. And you are right. We own that word (correction: my gay male friends really own that word.) But on the other hand, if it'd been one of my lesbian heroes (and there's a difference too, according to how you describe Hilton), and he'd said, "as if I hated dykes..." I'm not so sure, but I think I'd be pissed, because a kiss like that just isn't ok. especially since he was so disgusted about it himself.  (Feb 11, 2010 | post #5)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

Not so much. The slippery slope doesn't hold true. Again, there is a HUGE difference between consenting adults and taking advantage of children, the vulnerable, etc. As for NAMBLA, I have not ever heard of an active chapter. Seriously. They have no representation at GLBT events, conferences, Pride events, etc. I have never read a press release from them, nor found any active political pressure. Please find evidence (or lack thereof) of an active chapter beyond their single web page. The only time I even hear of them mentioned is when an opponent to GLBT rights brings them up on a board. I don't think they've had any success in achieving their goals, and I don't think the glbt community condones their stated goals.  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #434)

Gay/Lesbian

N.J. gay couples looking for a civil union 'dissolution' ...

loved it :-D  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #30)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

and again: continuedI fell in love with the first woman I dated. And later, when that relationship ended, she truly broke my heart. It was the first time I'd experienced sparks, acknowledged an emotional, mental, spiritual and physical attraction, the first time I'd ever looked forward to the physical part of a relationship. There was absolutely no comparison between her and any relationship I'd ever had before it. No comparison whatsoever. I went through a period of mourning that first love, healed, and eventually did meet someone new, who is also wonderful, loving, beautiful, sexy, thoughtful, spiritual, intelligent, playful, creative, athletic... essentially all those things we look for in a mate. After taking a long time developing a solid friendship and strong relationship, we did decide to take that next step. She is fantastic. The comparison for me in being with men or being with women is like living in the shadows vs. being in the sun. No, I am not bisexual, because I was never comfortable or attracted to men in the way that I now understand attraction is possible. Bisexuals (I think are attracted to both sexes, and could have healthy relationships with either sex.) But that was never me, because I only now understand how not natural it was for me to be with men. It never felt right; always felt forced, like I was trying to create something there that never existed naturally on its own. You know for yourself that you can't force love or feelings of attraction, even though at some people many people do just that, because they believe it to be the right thing to do. It was never a "choice" for me to be attracted to women, because in retrospect I see it at every point in my life, whether I was ready to acknowledge it or not -- any more than it was a "choice" for you to select a woman to be your life-partner. The difference is that your orientation is the majority orientation. What would be your choice would be to acknowledge that diversity is divine, that it offers benefits not readily comprehendible, and that just because your worldview is straight does not mean that your view must be narrow. The choice for me is to live my life in a real way, to allow myself to experience love, to believe that a soulmate was created by our Creator just for me, and that I have found her. Good luck to you on your journey, too. A  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #427)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

continuedGay people can and do love straight people, but it is mostly in a platonic way. And without ever having that puppy love that adolescents play with (without me ever dating a girl when I was younger,) I never knew that there was something better for me than the possibility of what I'd experienced dating guys. When you grow up in an ultra-conservative home with zero gay role models, the last thing you would want to consider is that you are gay yourself. Terrifying. So you force yourself to go through the motions and pretend to be straight (even if you don't realize you're pretending), because that is what you expect for yourself and you know that is what is expected of you. Had I seen one gay person on TV, or had our family made one single positive comment about gay people (I grew up in South Dakota, which is far more conservative than Minnesota), I may have chosen that path early on. It would have saved much heartbreak and many lost years. Any by "chosen that path" I don't mean "choose to be gay," but rather choose to live that life honestly. It was only later that I truly started to acknowledge the steady drumbeat of reality that had been echoing all along in my brain. My ex-spouse (while we were still married) was one of the first to ask if I'd considered that I might be gay. Some of my friends in college had delicately broached the subject, but it had terrified me and I'd change the subject quickly. I used to think that being gay would be worse than "catching cancer." I used to think of it as a curse. But the truth is, the steady homophobic diet (message) I was fed growing up was full of lies, and it pushed me deeply into a psychological closet, one I couldn't acknowledge even to myself. Only later did I ask my straight friends if they ever woke up in the middle of the night dreading and wondering if they were secretly gay. "Of course not," they said. But I had, all along. It had always been a secret fear. Did I choose to "be gay" later? No. I chose to acknowledge that that's who I was all along. And the crazy thing is, most of my long-time friends, when I told them, said they already knew, but were quietly waiting and wondering if I'd figure it out. Of course I wish I'd realized it sooner. The marriage was a huge mistake; one that produced two beautiful children whom I love more than anything, but it took a toll for me in wasted years and years spent feeling emotionally alone. After the marriage was over, I met a woman and did begin to date her. For the first time ever, I felt sparks fly in a kiss. For the first time, I knew love in a way that was more than just friendship or relational love. I knew love in a totally encompassing way. There was absolutely no comparison. I felt giddy over someone for the first time. I felt absolutely totally and completely in love.  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #426)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EARLIER COMMENTS ON TURNING TO JESUS AND ASSUMING LESBIANS WHO CONCEIVED THE "OLD FASHIONED WAY" ARE BISEXUALS. I APOLOGIZE. i MAY HAVE JUST COMPOSED A FULL CHAPTER IN A BOOK. -- mY hope is that it provides a new level of understanding on homosexuality for youThanks, Thomas. A couple points of clarification on major world religions (or any). When you enter into a dialogue with a Jew, suggesting they become a "Jew for Jesus" is generally not ok. I understand your love of sharing your faith, but too many Jews have died at the hands of good Christians (in my family included), and many of us find it irritating at best, insulting at worst. Yes, I know a few Jews for Jesus, and I am not so offended, but I would say that many Jews are. It's a sensitivity thing. Bring it up once, fine. But often, and you will turn the other person completely off, because they will have learned that you have no respect for the faith they currently practice. Being Jewish is a faith too, and one that can be rich and completely fulfilling on its own. As far as your prognostications on my sexuality: No, I am NOT bisexual. If we took every single persons' sum sexual history and used that to classify them, then according to some studies (those already listed), bisexuals would total over 40% lol. I am 100% gay. I suspect you don't understand or know much about people who are gay. Are gay people able in some cases to be sexually active with the opposite sex? Yes, much in the same way that people are able to orgasm in multiple ways... but that doesn't mean there is an attraction or emotional connection whatsoever. When I was married, and with the few straight relationships I had before that, (and this is sad, but I didn't understand why at the time), I avoided sex like the plague. It would actually bring tears to my eyes in the process. I could not get physically aroused (required lube) and the assumption was that there was something physically wrong with me. Each relationship I had ended with me unhappy and unfulfilled, with this nagging thought that the person I was with didn't truly love me, or couldn't give me fully what I needed. And I did my best to love them, went through the motions of what everyone says love involved, but could never find the right combination of ingredients to authentically feel that spark. Oh sure I planned romantic evenings, enjoyed dinner and dancing, being in the company of good people, but there was ALWAYS something that was missing. So after a while I decided that maybe I'd been expecting something too much from love, something unrealistic all along, and decided to settle for what little piece of it I had experienced. And when it came to the goodnight kiss or later sex, I had to tell myself that this was the best part, but I never believed it, and actually went through great pains to avoid it. Later I thought it was the marriage failing that contributed to a lost sexual desire, or the fact that I'd had kids and didn't have that drive.  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #425)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

Thomas, to get back to your initial comments today, discussing child molesters, organ harvesters and gay marriage in the same breath is akin to discussing and comparing apples, oranges and bananas. Just because organ harvesting happens (whether we are powerless to stop it or not) does not mean we should ok pedophilia. And supporting homosexuality does not have anything to do with either of the other two. We have the power and ability to distinguish danger and threats in each unique situation.  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #424)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

sorry links didn't appear: Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes .com/ article title was "An Alarmist Dodge" author: Jon W. Davidson  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #423)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

An even better response to your concerns was published in the LA Times in May 2008, following the CA Supreme Court ruling initially legalizing gay marriage. These same issues were raised and addressed. An alarmist dodge Jon W. Davidson Sixty years ago, when the California Supreme Court struck down our state's ban on marriages by couples of different races, the dissent argued that bans on incest and polygamy would be next. Those who raised these alarmist concerns were wrong then and they are wrong now. Polygamy and incest have not become legal in Massachusetts, Canada or any of the other countries where same-sex couples can marry, and they're quite unlikely to be recognized in California. The problem with "slippery slope" arguments like yours, Glen, is that they assume that society and the law can't make distinctions between situations that are different from one another. But we can tell apples from oranges. For example, that women got the right to vote does not mean that infants are next. Bringing up polygamy and incest is simply a dodge -- an attempt to distract people from the injustice of denying same-sex couples the same opportunity to marry that different-sex couples want to preserve for themselves. That others might argue that they want to marry their relatives or have multiple legal spouses requires that those arguments be separately evaluated; it doesn't make the exclusion of same-sex couples from marriage right. As the California court's majority opinion states, polygamy and incest present wholly different concerns than the marriage of same-sex couples: "Past judicial decisions explain why our nation's culture has considered the latter types of relationships inimical to the mutually supportive and healthy family relationships promoted by the constitutional right to marry." In other words, there may be compelling reasons to ban incestuous and polygamous marriages, including genetic concerns about the children of incestuous marriages, the importance of preventing coercion and abuse within families, and concerns about how young girls and women have fared under polygamy. By contrast, there is no compelling reason to bar same-sex couples from marriage. Permitting marriages of same-sex couples strengthens families and harms no one. (And by the way, bisexuality is the capacity to fall in love with people regardless of their sex. It's no more about being concurrently involved with more than one person than is heterosexuality.) The last 3 paragraphs commented specifically on that court ruling...  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #422)

Gay/Lesbian

Gay clergy splits Lakeville church, ELCA

I have no idea what this has to do with your opposition to homosexualityAnd I agree. Killing humans to harvest their organs is wrong. Are you actively campaigning against regimes that already do this? http://organharves tinvestigation.net / How about the U.S.? http://www.ahrp.or g/cms/content/view /501/80/ And we both agree that molesting children is wrong. The idea here is that children can't give CONSENT. As such they are vulnerable and should be protected. But what does this have to do with homosexuality? Your logic doesn't followEach of your concerns here have already been raised and articulately addressed. No, the arguments for gay marriage are not the same as for incestuous couples, because incest may produce offspring that are genetically at risk. There is no parallel risk for gay couples. Those who would argue STDs can stop right now, because we all know the majority of STDs (including HIV) are currently spreading fastest among hetero communities (check out the WHO for figures). Furthermore, one could argue that marriage would actually add more stability to homo relationships, thus further driving health risks down. I have no idea what you get at with the comment on bisexuals. Are you talking from a legal or moral standpoint? My general response is that you respect a person for who they are, not for who they last kissed. This leads us to the question of promiscuity, which is CERTAINLY not limited to the GLBT world. p.s. I had responded to your earlier comments on my orientation, but topix didn't post them. Perhaps I'll repost on that as well... The person you should read on this is John Corvino. His CV (resume): http://www.johncor vino.com/pdf/corvi no_cv.pdf His webpage: http://www.johncor vino.com/wp/ He is currently on a nationwide speaking/debate tour with Maggie Gallagher, president for NOM. They make a very odd pair: a homo and the champion for Prop 8.  (Feb 9, 2010 | post #421)

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