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Is homosexuality a sin?

Accuracy"??? Men were not made from clay! Women were not made from ribs! Snakes don't talk! Fruit trees don't carry the knowledge of good and evil inside them! There is no "accuracy " present in that account. There's certainly nothing "supernatural " about saying that the universe began when God turned on the lights. That's how they saw every day begin, it's no stretch to see that this is how they thought the universe began, too. The Greeks said the same thing, darkness gave way to light. But none of it discusses 15 billion years of material development. None of it covers solar system accretion, nebulae and galaxies, red giants, brown dwarfs, Oort clouds, quasars, infrared, shared descent, natural selection, extinction, mutation, etc.' Instead we get talking animals. Unicorns. Satyrs. The slave trade. Genocide. No age of consent for marriage. "Supernatural accuracy" my eye. The stories of AA Milne have more accuracyEzekiel 16:48-50 "As I live," declares the Lord GOD, "Sodom, your sister and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. 4"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. 5"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it. Could this book be a little more confusing? A "week" is not a good word to use for "15 billion years", and this description of Sodom says nothing about anal sex, despite the Christian mispropaganda machine. Does it ever say what it MEANS to say? Or does anyone who uses the label "Christian " get to just make up meanings on the spot? LOL, "Supernatural accuracy". Sure, and a horoscope is just as accurate.  (15 hrs ago | post #105168)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

I agree that there is a difference, but I'm not so sure I would describe it as a "big" difference. There are some ideas which people ONLY get into their heads because of religion.  (18 hrs ago | post #105156)

Gay/Lesbian

New Jersey ban on gay conversion therapy is upheld

Zero. This home-made, non-scientific abuse can't help anyone. The only "help" that queers need is for gender-nazis to get over it. Not everyone is the same, and no one needs "therapy " (or whatever this is) to increase their sameness.  (Friday Sep 12 | post #3)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Because nothing says "evolution " like "dirt-man and rib-woman ate knowledge-fruit on advice from talking snake".  (Wednesday Sep 10 | post #104989)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

No, I don't want to read it. Why would I? Take your source, and its arguments, to the person who inspired you to quote from it. That wasn't me. I answered your questions about religious wars as a courtesy, simply because you asked me about it. I did not initiate any conversation about that subject, and I have no further interest in pursuing it. I gave you the best reply I could muster about a subject that YOU initiated. What I'm seeing over and over is that you do not REPAY the courtesy. You are using someone ELSE'S conversation as an excuse to IGNORE the questions which I ask of you. I've asked you DOZENS of questions about a subject that interests ME, and instead of showing me the courtesy that I've shown you, you're redirecting the conversation elsewhere without so much as a nod to what I've asked. People like you and KiMare are creating a very bad image for Christians, as people who refuse to answer direct questions with honest detail. Is this how Christians defend their faith? By changing the subject? By failing to EXCHANGE question for question? You sound like people who simply don't HAVE the answers I ask for, but are unwilling to openly admit this. There's no shame in admitting that you don't understand something. The only shame is in PRETENDING that you understand it, and avoiding the critical discussion which would reveal that pretense.  (Wednesday Sep 10 | post #104987)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

I'm not "lying", I just don't use Matt Slick and his CARM website as a source. And HIS source, Phillips & Axelrod's "The Encyclopedia of War" (a book set which, despite being a decade old, has all of THREE whole reviews on Amazon.com) uses "the criteria that the armed conflict must involve some overt religious action". How easy it must've been to find a parallel political or economic cause alongside the religious one, and then justify discounting the religious cause altogether, if the authors didn't consider it "overt" enough. Religion is SUCH a tinderbox of conflict, that even close friends are warned to avoid discussing it, because of the rifts it is likely to create. Religion and politics, people say, should not be discussed in polite conversation. This illustrates how easily religion can spark a conflict. It also shows how intertwined it is with politics, making Phillips & Axelrod's job easy in calling a war "politically motivated" rather than "religiously motivatedYour game of ignoring ALL my questions gets old. Remember that I did not come to you with any "blame". You decided to ask ME if I agreed with another poster. You asked this out of the blue. Don't use your discussion with someone else as an excuse to redirect OUR discussionThe old "I'm rubber, you're glue" game gets old, too. It's absurd for you to simply repeat what I said, with a couple of words simply switched out. It only shows that you don't understand the nuances of the issue. Atheism is NOT "supposed to foster peace". No one ever said it was. Atheism is not a worldview which offers any philosophical or moral guidelines. It only describes a person's position of being unconvinced by claims about gods. That's all. The analogy you're looking for is Humanism. That is the philosophical counterpart to theism. No war was ever caused by Humanistic values. Atheists have no "book" which instructs them to behave in any particular way, much less to wage warWe can't say what? I don't understand what you're saying here. But now that I've addressed an entire post to another of your interests, can you address some of the questions I asked? The division and doctrinal disagreement among Christians? Atheists are a varied bunch, as we have nothing more in common than what DOESN'T convince us. But Christians the world over share the SAME singular book, yet behave in vastly different ways, despite that book calling for "one mind" and "one judgment". Some Christians believe that the Bible calls on them to imprison homosexuals. Some Christians believe the Bible wants them to shun modern medicine, and let their children die of common treatable illnesses. Some Christians believe the Bible instructs them to manhandle venomous snakes (a cruel practice). Some Christians believe the Bible tells them to make a public scene at the funerals of soldiers, whom they believe died in defense of a nation with pro-gay policies. Some Christians believe that Jesus came to America after he left the Middle East. How can any single one of these sects be believed, when each of them is saying "I'm right, the others are wrong"? Don't you think that it's at least FAIR for an outsider to have some skepticism about religion, when we see this much discord?  (Wednesday Sep 10 | post #104980)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

How so? Everyone is different. We all have different ideas, formed from differing life experiences. But my point is that all the people who do NOT subscribe to the same religion should be EXPECTED to have differing views when it comes to religious and supernatural concepts. The people who DO subscribe to the same religion should be expected to share the SAME views regarding religion and the supernatural, particularly if their religion is TRUEALL of it? Goodness no. NOTHING could be responsible for ALL of it. But it's unquestionable that religion contributes plenty (and more than it should, if religion is supposed to foster peace). Conflicts over religious worldviews have sparked extensive violence throughout world history. It would be QUITE a relief on world stress if everyone could just say, "Well, we don't really know anything about gods or the supernatural. Let's agree that we're all equally in the darkBecause we do not share a common book which says "Believe this way, behave this way". Christians DO, but they DON'T all believe or behave in the same way. Some of them behave SO vastly differently, that some Christian groups condemn other Christian groups (the WBC are a prime example) for their "mistaken " expressions of their Christianity. This lack of religious unity is perplexing. It can't be expected among those who don't share a religion, but it should be a "given" among those who doWe ARE all different, and of course that's a good thing. But if there is a God responsible for that, then it's strange that he would create people SO differently that the believers of his message would spread it with such variation and inconsistency. I'm not talking about our physical and biological differences. I mean the doctrinal differences between the various Christian denominations (to say nothing of the various religions of the world). 1 Corinthians, Chapter 1, Verse 10 calls for exactly what I'm talking about. "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." And yet there ARE divisions. Christians AREN'T joined together in the same mind and judgment. Some think the Bible tells them to treat gay people with inclusion and equality. Some think it tells them to oppose marriage equality, and to picket the funerals of those who died defending the policies of a pro-gay nation. And some Christians, like those in Uganda or Gambia, believe that God's Word directs them to criminalize homosexuality, and sentence gay people to life sentences in prison. And homosexuality is not the only point of contention to produce such disagreement. So, why the division? Who is right and how do we tell? How can ANY of them be believed, if we know they're not SUPPOSED to have division?  (Wednesday Sep 10 | post #104965)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

You didn't "expose" anything. You mistakenly put a 180 on my argument, thinking I was arguing that all Christians are ALIKE, when in actuality I'm asking why all Christians are so DIFFERENT. You didn't "expose" anything except your own strawman. My only problem is when you shoe-horn yourself into a conversation about identifying true Christians, and then all you can say is that you have nothing to sayThen perhaps he is not a "true" Christian, or perhaps you are not. Who knows? You have offered no method for telling the difference. What you've shown is that anyone who calls themselves "Christian " is free to use the title, no matter what "areas of substance" they may see differently. The WBC sees MANY areas of substance differently from you (and perhaps many the same as well), but that wouldn't qualify you to declare that they aren't "true" Christians. Of course, you haven't made this declaration, Riccardo did. So none of this is really directed at you. You have no need to argue any case if you feel that Westboro IS a Christian organization. IS that how you feel about themThe distinction is that BH and I can admit that we come to our own conclusions, and that these conclusions may therefore be coincidentally similar. Christians, on the other hand, reach differing conclusions, but then want outsiders to believe this is because the "wrong" Christians reached the "wrong" conclusions, even though there is no way to identify "true" Christians or "correct " beliefs. If only you could all admit that you're reaching your own conclusions, in the same way we are. You make the Bible into a personal horoscope, which allows each of you to believe absolutely anything you want.  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104915)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Perhaps you're skimming my posts too quickly. I have not made any such claim that all Christianity believes the same as the WBC. I have pointed out the exact opposite. Despite using the same label of "Christian ", and working from the same source book, most Christians seem to believe incredibly DIFFERENT things, broadly RANGING from the WBC to more liberal denominations. UnderstandYou are free to discuss whatever disgusts you. It doesn't have to disgust me, or anyone else. And I don't have to join you in the discussion, either. I have a specific set of questions (which I posed to someone else, and you decided to add your comment that there is nothing to add). If you don't want me "trolling " your conversations about anal sex, then don't jump into mine about the Christian label. Problem solvedDo you remember busting in on my conversation with Riccardo, insisting that I knew how to identify "true" Christians, when I didn't ask for your input? Yeah, that's what happened. My marriage is fine. I don't look to you for validation. I look to the state, which treats us all equalStrange then, that two different people who DON'T share a holy book will find more agreement than two who DO.  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104910)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Well, yeah, I think I would not like to see the brutal and bloodthirsty Christian version of the universe. But SOME kind of supernaturalism would be fascinating, and would certainly draw my attention. But no, the evidence is not there.  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104907)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Perhaps not originally, but you brought it up to meThere are many reasons -today- that people consider before they circumcise. But there's no question that the practice was heavily promoted in the Bible, and not as a health benefit but as a display of pietyWell, I was offering a new conversationI think that goes without saying. It's a choice that the WBC can make, tooWell, you did say this: "People like Westboro and the army of God are not Christians" (post #104557, page #4741) That sounds like speaking for others to meSure, but we don't HAVE any pages. We don't have any book. It is to be expected that atheists do not have so much in common with each other. Christians DO have a book. They SHOULD be all on the same page. It's strange that they aren't. It damages the credibility of the religionPeople are like that all aroundI haven't said you wereAnd they would probably question yours. They might say that being a Christian does NOT mean believing in the Trinity. Is there no... "central authority"... for want of a better term, which can settle these differences? One which can be directly consulted, and provide real-time answers? Or is it truly a "free-for-all ", left up to everyone's "personal choices"? I can accept that with atheism, because we have no doctrine. But doctrine should unite its adherents. Instead, the followers of Christ have schismed into uncountable denominations, each adapting their OWN doctrines, each a little different. Some, a LOT differentI don't understand this, or its relevance here. Jesus is telling his followers that many will be left out of Heaven? Is this a way of saying that these other denominations should expect to be excluded from salvation, because of their waywardness? Aren't you as much at risk of being a member of one of the wayward denominations as they are? Couldn't you have it wrong, and they have it right? If you get to the "strait gate", and you see Fred Phelps alongside Abraham and the rest, while you are turned away, wouldn't you be pretty frustrated? In a world full of SO MANY widely varied beliefs, this idea that there are "correct " beliefs and "incorrect " beliefs seems unsupportable. That anyone would actually be PUNISHED for what they were taught by their parents, or for what they concluded on their own, is unconscionable. Why wouldn't God simply reward people for being kind and generous? Why should reward and punishment be based on local cultural beliefs, instead of peaceful and loving behaviors?  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104906)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

No it isn't.  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104903)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Understanding would be easier if you were more willing to answer questions with detail, clarity and transparency, instead of pretending that answers aren't necessary because the asker already knows. That is how you cloud and incapacitate understanding.  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104902)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Correct. Humans have been inventing gods and religions for millennia. Those same humans have had the same lack of evidence for the same millennia. I just don't understand why you need to add a post just to say you have nothing to addThat's because I DO want to understand Christianity better, from the point of view of Christians. The trouble is, asking them about their faith doesn't provide that understanding. Not when all they do is change the subject, or insist that the questions have already been answered. I've never seen any group of people so tight-lipped about their own practices. I think that bacon hater is correct. If you were to answer any of these questions out loud, they would immediately sound absurd, illogical and embarrassing even to you. I can understand that. It can't be easy to realize that you share the same club with someone like the WBC.  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104901)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

I was interested in Riccardo's response, when he gave one. I'm not interested in your non-responses. "Oh, someone already told you, once upon a time. You already know the answer". Yeah, that doesn't help. Just say you've got nothing to add. Or better yet, just SAY NOTHING. What I've confirmed is that there is no way to identify which Christians have a valid claim on that label, and which do not. You've confirmed it further, by offering no method. You pretend like you've got some SECRET method, which you're just SURE that I know all about, but you sound more like a 3rd grader who's been asked to give an answer to a calculus problem, saying "I have an answer, but I'm not gonna tell". We both know there's no answer. Mormons are Christians just like you are, just like the WBC, just like doctor-fearing child killers. You all believe in Christ. That makes you all ChristiansWill God be as coy and elusive as you? Why are religious people SO reticent to ACTUALLY discuss their faith in any kind of real detail? You never give clear answers. Riccardo drags me into conversations about circumcision, global warming, or Bowe Bergdahl. Diversion, distraction, obfuscation, ANYTHING to avoid facing the subject directly. Why is it like that? Why not discuss it openly? Why not JUMP at the chance to give clear answers to why you believe what you believe? It's like pulling teeth!  (Tuesday Sep 9 | post #104896)

Q & A with EdmondWA

Headline:

Unconvinced

Hometown:

Seattle, WA

I Belong To:

My Husband

Read This Book:

The Wind Through The Keyhole

I Believe In:

measureable, testable, confirmable, repeatable, demonstrable, falsifiable evidence.