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Is homosexuality a sin?

I don't have to worry about leprechaun-support ers trying to stop me from marrying my partner, or Leprechaunists sabotaging science education. Leprechauns don't inspire legions of people to impose leprechaun laws onto the population at large. It isn't the belief that's the problem, it's the believersI am not offended by any God. Don't you understand that? I'm offended by the PEOPLE who claim to be SPEAKING for God, who claim to be doing "His" work by enacting legislation which requires adherence to Christian dogma. Unicorns THEMSELVES aren't doing anything, and neither is any god. It's the HUMANS who want to enforce everyone else to obey their favorite gods that I have an issue withOh, you "rationally " note that? Thanks for letting me know it was rational. I'll rationally note that. But I still haven't rejected ANYTHING. I have certainly had lots of PEOPLE come to my door and want to talk ABOUT God (though they all want to talk about DIFFERENT Gods), but I've never had God HIMSELF come to my door for a conversation, nor ANY god. When I see one, I'm sure I'll believe in him. If he's convincing enough. Being all-knowing and all-powerful, he should probably know how to do that. But I can't just CHOOSE to believe in something, just because someone else told me about it, or because it sounds like a nice idea. I have to be CONVINCED of it, and that's not my responsibility. It's the responsibility of whoever is making the claim. They need to provide sufficient evidence. I'm completely open to believing in a God, once I've seen good enough evidence for one. I've seen plenty of evidence for nature, that seems to be how everything works. Beyond that, I'm not going to jump to conclusions. Maybe there are 700 gods, have you ever considered that? Maybe they created the universe in committee. We don't know. There could be! There could be a TRILLION gods. But I will wait until hard evidence is in before I call any hypothesis a "belief" . What I don't understand is, why is it the nature of your God that I should be ETERNALLY TORTURED WITH FIRE if I don't freely choose to be bamboozled by every proselytizer that crosses my path? Being cautious and skeptical really requires endless, agonizing punishment? That's messed up.  (1 hr ago | post #99172)

Gay/Lesbian

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

Are you sure you won't be posting YouTube videos when they do, calling it "indoctrinati on"? Or do you only do that when gays are includedA little friction is worth it if it prevents child suicidesNot when it spills out into the rest of society, it isn’t. It becomes ALL of our business when their kids grow up to become bigoted adults who cause problems for other citizens. It becomes ALL our responsibility. Why would this fall under parents’ responsibility in the first place? Why are THEY better trained and equipped to present this material than educators are? Just because they have a Bible on the shelfIf that involves telling them that gays are citizens too, we're not "evil", and that we shouldn't be especially targeted because of our differences to heterosexuals, do you have a problem with thatAnd when kids take part in Black History Month during February, would you also argue for an "opt out" option then? You are arguing that people should be free to teach children that gay people are a scourge on humanity, to the point that they can opt their children out from school efforts to teach that this is not true. You are supporting slanderI WOULD agree that kids should discuss religion in the classroom. Why would you think I wouldn't? I would LOVE to see a “comparative religions” class in all schools. The chance to study other religions is a good way to break people of the assumption that their favorite one is unquestionably true. It would do a lot to stop people from blindly aligning themselves to ancient slander against their fellow humans. And there would be plenty of time left for the three “r”sThey can certainly make good efforts to do what they can, and those efforts should not be mischaracterized as “indoctrination” when they doYes, but now they’ll have another point of view to consider. And kids who ARE gay will know that they have someone they can turn to, when they have no support at home. I simply cannot fathom why you would want to actively PREVENT this from happening.  (Saturday | post #2264)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

So you're not gay. No one will force you. The "sin" (or just "poor behavior" if you prefer) comes from interfering with what other consenting adults choose to do together, or in vilifying them for it. Remember that lots of straight people enjoy anal sex, and some gay people do not. We should all simply respect that everyone should have the right to pursue whatever consensual activity they choose.  (Saturday | post #99114)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

That comes off as a bit... vague. It sounds like something that could be said by either side. Theists and atheists alike might call themselves "realists ", and consider the others as "cowards ". But I do find that logic is often the enemy of religious teaching. Look too deeply at biblical claims and stories, and they begin to unravel. They don't hold up to scrutiny. They can only be accepted as "true", if one chooses to brush off the inconsistencies and read the thing like a horoscope, personally customized and interpretable by anyone as supporting what they already believe.  (Saturday | post #99108)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

I haven't rejected anyone. No such gods have presented themselves to me to BE rejected. When they do, we'll have a little conversation, and I can make a decision at that point. What I reject is the idea that I (or anyone) can know things which are not supported by evidence (or which are often contradicted by evidence). Everything else remains "unproven ". Possible, maybe, but unicorns and leprechauns might be "possible " in that context. Give me proof first, and then I will accept it as true. The universe exists. This is the limit of what I can say I know about its origin. I do not know that a god created it. There is no tag hanging off the universe saying "Made in Heaven". I certainly can't rely on the word of a book which includes talking animals, or men whose physical strength is located in their hair. These are the hallmarks of myth, and there are many such mythological books in the world. To put my trust in such books, is to trust that they WEREN'T written by primitives who enjoyed slavery and land-grabs. If God IS real, then he would've known before the beginning of time that I would "reject" him. He would also know why. He chose to create me anyway, knowing that my eternal destination would be one of pain and suffering. Understand this? He COULD have left me un-created, thereby reducing the pain and suffering in the universe. Instead, he deliberately ADDED to the pain and suffering in the universe. This is unnecessarily evil. It is not loving. It is not tenable as an argument (except maybe for the existence of an evil god). Christianity describes a God who rewards people for jumping to supernatural conclusions, and who punishes people for using their reason and intellect to reach a conclusion that we cannot gain information about a so-called "supernatural ". There are few things that could be less realistic.  (Saturday | post #99107)

Gay/Lesbian

Prop 8 lawyer's views on gay marriage evolving

QUOTE who="NE Jade"]I was given a list of good churches and a list of the bad, liberal churches.[/QUOTE] I guess it's a good thing that there are "good" churches where gay people can feel accepted. It's better than if there weren't any like that, but I'm always going to take issue with OTHER church teachings, beyond just homosexuality. Magic. The idea that humans are born deserving eternal fiery torture, and that we must profess belief in the supernatural before we can be spared such a painful fate. I'm with RalphB, I find agnosticism much more appealing. I know that there are things that I cannot know, things which NO human can know, and I refuse to let my imagination run away with me to the point where I believe these things are true without compelling evidence. No disrespect, I'm not trying to call anyone "delusional ". I recognize that religion is a tremendously powerful force in our culture, and in the lives of families and individuals. I just don't think it has a valid claim to any truth.  (Saturday | post #76)

Gay/Lesbian

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

This does not mean that we IGNORE the reasons. Kids who are being picked on at school for having glasses or braces do not have to worry about going home and getting the same treatment from their parents as well. Fat kids and pimply kids don't have to consider that their parents might throw them out onto the street because of their differences. Statistics tell us that as many as 40% of homeless youth identify as LGBT. That's a shameful number, that can be placed squarely at the feet of those who teach that being gay is some special "abomination " above all others. They heap this unnecessary guilt onto their own children. And you want to jump in and STOP people who want to see this change?  (Saturday | post #2252)

Gay/Lesbian

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

I didn't say that they are. They are teaching this in many HOMES. The public schools are trying to COMBAT that horrible teachingNot when gay kids are killing themselves at four times the rate of others. When statistics like that arise, we have a responsibility to take a closer look, and question whether there might be a special problem in this one area. ALL forms of bullying should be combated. But when you single out attempts to end anti-gay bullying, you prove that you are not interested in combating ALL forms of bullying. There appears to be one form that want to let slideOf course I can do that, because I'm an adult who is not beholden to what his parents want him to watch, or hear, or learnPlease explain why he would NEED to. A 1st grade classroom is not going to be teaching him negative attitudes toward his fellow citizens. Are you suggesting that the message "gays are people too, treat them kindly" is something that should be turned off like a TV channel? Is tolerance of diversity such a terrible thing to teach that people should be able to opt their children OUT of it, just like learning the horrible lies of evolution?  (Saturday | post #2251)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Plus, he created people that didn't exist, just so that he could send them to Hell for eternal suffering. What a guy, adding unnecessary suffering to the universe. I really feel the love.  (Friday | post #99082)

Gay/Lesbian

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

Please point out exactly where I dismissed ANY effects of bullying. From the START, I have advocated covering MORE targets of bullying for protection. But you are already especially biased against gays if you think that the two compare. Let me know the next time some TV evangelist rails against the "fat agenda". This is nothing like picking on someone for being an outsider, or strange looking. Hatred against gays is more comparable to how most people feel about the most vicious criminals. If allowed to fester, this irrational hatred will not be outgrown, the way a person will outgrow their need to harass a fat kid.  (Friday Apr 18 | post #2223)

Gay/Lesbian

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

This is not simply about "standard " bullying which targets common misfits (a problem which also merits a solution). This is about a pervasive need, by some people, to teach that gay people are the ultimate scum of the Earth, abominations in the eyes of the creator of the universe. This is a whole different level of bullying. This is social vilification of a kind that few other groups on EARTH are subjected to. People aren't fired from their jobs for having pimples, or denied marriage because they wear braces. No one was ever kicked out of the military for being "unpopular ". You won't find your pastor teaching that people deserve hellfire for wearing glassesSo instead of suggesting a more all-inclusive anti-bullying platform, your solution is to eliminate anything that involves gays? Just LET these people teach that we are "rebels against God", and that making our lives hell is only an expression of their religious freedom?  (Friday Apr 18 | post #2222)

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Is homosexuality a sin?

Gave up smoking years ago, though still went through "off and on again" times, especially when hanging out with friends who smoke. That really brings out the bum in a person! Switched to e-cigs a few months ago. No idea how safe they are (wish there'd be some more studies in that area), but they're definitely cheaper, FAR more pleasant to be around, and they do the trick of satisfying the craving. Of course, being "electronic ", they bring all the baggage that entails. They aren't fail-proof, and some parts can be expensive to replace. The REAL question, of course, is: Are e-cigarettes a sin? ;)  (Friday Apr 18 | post #99076)

Top Stories

Is homosexuality a sin?

I think it's "nice" and all that some religions are more peaceful and less discriminating, but I still have a general issue with jumping to the conclusion that any thousand-year-old speculative fiction represents confirmed facts about the universe. Once we decide that established evidence can be disregarded in favor of our own flights of fancy, we can find justification for ANY behavior. The problems with some religion don't always lie in their levels of peacefulness or human unity. Hindus are considered pretty peaceful, right? Sounds good. But do you have any idea how much CRAP they toss into rivers during their many rituals and ceremonies? They are literally toxifying the rivers of India with their practices, and there have been concerns about the Hindus here in the US. This is a real-world problem, caused (and excused) by religious belief. We will all be much better off when people put this nonsense behind them.  (Friday Apr 18 | post #99071)

Gay/Lesbian

Prop 8 lawyer's views on gay marriage evolving

On atheist blogs, I hear a lot of people talk about how they used to be in religion, even fundamentalism, and how willingly they went along with the general mindset. They carry a lot of guilt afterwards because of their participation. If you hear that kind of story often enough, it becomes difficult to blame people for the religions they're in. They are almost (almost) as much victims themselves as the people they vilify. Especially if their "religious education" began in childhood. I consider myself lucky to never have been pulled into that, but I can understand how difficult it must be to change any part of these deeply indoctrinated beliefs, or to publicly oppose even ONE tenet of your religion. We have every reason to be frustrated and even angry when they refuse to question their beliefs, or when they eschew logic to support them, but there's nothing to be gained by holding onto hatred once they've finally come around. They should be congratulated for the difficult steps they've taken, which go against everything they've been taught, and against everything and everyone that surrounds them. They should be encouraged to take MORE steps, but you can't be part of THAT discussion if you're too busy telling them what scum they WERE for ever believing what they DID. I say, kudos to ANYONE who pulls against the reins of their religion, it cannot be easy, in ways I cannot imagine.  (Friday Apr 18 | post #52)

Gay/Lesbian

Prop 8 lawyer's views on gay marriage evolving

Religion. Religion justifies withholding empathy from the "out group". They are "enemies of God" and therefore enemies of all creation. Hard-assed treatment of such people makes perfect sense in that context. Easier to empathize with the invisible people who agree with you, than with the real ones who don't.  (Friday Apr 18 | post #48)

Q & A with EdmondWA

Headline:

Unconvinced

Hometown:

Seattle, WA

I Belong To:

My Washington State Registered Domestic Partner

Read This Book:

The Wind Through The Keyhole

I Believe In:

measureable, testable, confirmable, repeatable, demonstrable, falsifiable evidence.