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JonBenet Ramsey

consistent with intruder theory

But claiming it must have been an inside job is something that JR did in fact do.  (Dec 8, 2013 | post #52)

JonBenet Ramsey

An IDI Companion: the basement window

To clarify my prior post, I think PR was lying about LHP helping to clean up the glass.  (Dec 8, 2013 | post #18)

JonBenet Ramsey

An IDI Companion: the basement window

There is little that is proven beyond doubt, that is why we are still talking about this case 17 years later. With anything the Rs say, we must assess whether or not they are telling the truth. Necessarily that is subjective. You're belief that they are telling the truth about the window is equally subjective. Cursory is a good word for the way the police conducted their search. Kolar is suspicious of JR's failure to report the ajar window frame, so there must be some reason he thought JR should have mentioned it. Yes, maybe they didn't have it repaired. People are different. Maybe the Ramseys are so different they don't care about the cold air of December blowing in their window. Maybe they didn't care about mosquitoes and flies coming in during the summer, or mice coming in when the weather turned cold. Maybe they didn't bother taping a piece of cardboard over the hole. Maybe they weren't concerned with jagged pieces of glass falling out as the children played nearby. Maybe they left the shard of glass on the suitcase because, after all, why worry, it's just a room where Burke has his train set up. And of course, if the glass was on the suitcase because JR broke in himself, then the suitcase has been there in that spot since summer, when JR broke the window. Yet JR says it's not where it belongs -but again, like the ajar window, he neglects to mention this on Dec 26th, preferring to wait until April of '97. And yes, JR does eventually claim that he told Arendt about the window being open. Who to believe? You are really stretching with your comments on LHP. LHP denies vacuuming up glass. So you suggest maybe she didn't do as she was told. She's the housekeeper. Had she been told to clean up glass she'd have done so. Your suggestion that she might not have been told the reason for cleaning up broken glass mystifies me. Isn't it self evident why a housekeeper would be asked to clean up broken glass? And wouldn't LHP have asked how the window got broken? Wouldn't LHP know about the break in story? Patsy doesn't claim to have cleaned up glass after LHP neglected to do so. Patsy says it was a team effort by her and LHP. LHP doesn't remember doing that. If I heard this testimony at a trial, I'd have to think JR lied about the window, and that PR lied about cleaning up the glass.  (Dec 8, 2013 | post #17)

JonBenet Ramsey

consistent with intruder theory

I agree JR is lying. He seems confused and uncertain about something that would stand out in his memory. He took of his shoes, took off his suite, put his shoes back on, jumped down the window well, kicked out the window, but he tells it in a stumbling way as if the details are fuzzy. More importantly he can't quite recall whether or not he took a cab. He did or didn't. Not much recall power needed. He of course can't have driven his own car, otherwise he's got his keys. But then he should be definite on taking a cab, or getting a ride from a truck driver, etc. It's quite apparent he's lying. I do like your point that he could have unlocked a door to provide an entry point for the mythical intruder. He didn't. I also can't beleive LHP and her handyman husband didn't know about a window that had been broken for months. Not believable. Claiming that all the doors/windows were locked doesn't infer a forced break in, exclusively. It also infers someone with a key. He does mention to the police that it must have been an inside job. Then of course JR claims he found the window frame ajar, and closed it, before the police saw it. But he neglects to tell the police this until 4/97. Hard to believe that detail slipped his mind the morning police were in his house investigating the kidnapping of his daughter. I read what you said on your thread about the window. You are relying quite heavily on poor memory as an excuse for the things JR says. It's hard for me to believe his memory is that bad.  (Dec 7, 2013 | post #48)

JonBenet Ramsey

An IDI Companion: the basement window

Anti-K, you make three good points. 1. JR would have little time to clean up glass, as well as disposing of or hiding the glass. 2. He could have unlocked a door even in conjunction with unstaging the partially staged window. 3. Why would PR include LHP in her glass clean up story if LHP didn't participate? So what to believe? JR's story is clearly a fabrication. He's a little unsure about exactly what went down the night he "broke in" to his own house when he supposedly forgot his key. For one thing, he can't quite recall whether or not he took a cab, but he either did or didn't. Of course he can't have driven his own car because then he'd have his keys. But if he says he definitely took a cab then the next question is what cab company? What time was this? Then he has trouble bringing to mind the details of his "break in". He took off his shoes, his suite, put his shoes back on, jumped down a 4 foot deep window well, kicked out the glass, yet it's all just a little hard for him to recall. Sorry, but that would stick in one's memory. The glass apparently wasn't all that well cleaned up, as there is a shard on the suitcase. So is this consistent with a clean up that was done "thoroughly " (according to you) by PR or is it consistent with a hasty clean up that morning? JR would claim at the 4/97 police interviews that he had gone down the basement and noticed the window not only broken, but the frame ajar about an inch. He claims to have closed it himself, but neglected to mention this to the officers on the scene that morning. But as you say, memory isn't reliable, and it had been four minutes and who could remember something from that long ago? Then of course, if we are to believe that JR is telling the truth about the window, that means the family lived with it broken for four or more months -depending on what month JR "broke in". No concern for security, no concern for wind, leaves, rain, snow, mice, etc. coming in the window. No attempt to cover the broken pane with a piece of plywood or even just taping cardboard over it. Hard to believe, imo. It's also hard to believe that LHP didn't know anything about a window that had been broken for months, especially since it was her husband who was often called upon for those kinds of repairs. So whether LHP simply can't recall cleaning up glass, or whether PR is misremembering or whether PR is lying, it still remains unlikely that LHP didn't know about the broken window, yet she claims to know nothing about any broken window. Burke of course knows precisely whether or not the window in his train room had been broken for months on end w/o being fixed. We don't know what BR has to say on this subject. So, what to believe?  (Dec 7, 2013 | post #10)

JonBenet Ramsey

bdi?

It works very much like that. I've built the garrotte from 1/4" nylon line very much like the actual garrotte. It tightens, but you have to use both hands to loosen it. It has a slip knot, but it only slips in the tightening direction. It was definitely not an EA device.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #124)

JonBenet Ramsey

bdi?

Exactly.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #122)

JonBenet Ramsey

The set up questions

Well, I can't disagree in general. It's certainly possible they just didn't consider the pineapple. They'd have to have considered an autopsy but maybe didn't realize the intestinal contents could be identified. But I don't think it's such a big IF. Especially IF Burke were at the table eating pineapple too. There's always the chance he'd say to someone that JB was eating pineapple with him and his mom (and maybe dad too) If John and Patsy were both in on the coverup why not just go over everything, keeping the story as true as possible so there's no slip ups?  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #19)

JonBenet Ramsey

bdi?

The cross finger pointing defense might have been available with any scenario. That BPD couldn't figure out who did what couldn't be counted on, unless they had been given "assurances " by someone high up during some late night phone calls. But such "assurances " aren't needed if it's BDI. They don't need to stage anything because to do so doesn't lessen the impact on the family image. Even if they knew they were in no danger (which I doubt) they still tarnished their reputation by seeming to be involved in their daughters murder. Not everyone is gullible enough to be IDI. The staged intruder scenario fools fewer than half the people. They kept themselves under suspicion for years when the supposed aim of BDI is to protect the family image.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #103)

JonBenet Ramsey

bdi?

I disagree. It's not a complex legal question. Under 10, no charges. Doesn't get much easier. Any other legal advice they may have received that night would have been considerably more complicated than that.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #102)

JonBenet Ramsey

bdi?

I agree with the Docg theory, except I don't think there is much of a chance for conviction. Even if it was in the bag for them, they still ended up with the family looking worse than if they'd just let it be known it was BDI. And I'm not talking about national publicity. I'm sure there are close friends and relatives who wonder if they killed JB. It could have been just an "accident " caused by BR. But if you're determined to see it as BDI I guess there is nothing I can say that will sway you.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #101)

JonBenet Ramsey

The set up questions

What I mean is just what anti-K said. The set up could be there from earlier in the day. JB might have just snitched a few pieces from the bowl without anyone knowing about it and w/o touching the bowl. There's no doubt someone in the family did the set up. But what time of day, and who was present at the "pineapple party" can't be known. I agree about the intruder, as far as wiping the prints. But she could have eaten it by herself as anti-K suggests. So we can't really eliminate the intruder (not that we have to take IDI seriously, but we can't eliminate it based on lack of prints) To me the important thing about this "bugaboo " is that it wouldn't mess up the R's timeline if both of them knew she had pineapple. They just say she had pineapple then went to bed, then the boogeyman came in the middle of the night, yada yada.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #17)

JonBenet Ramsey

bdi?

So to avoid Burke getting therapy, which clearly he'd need if it were BDI, the adut Rs were willing to risk indictment on serious criminal charges, maybe even murder. No, sorry, doesn't make sense. The problem with BDI is that it always has JR/PR covering for Burke in a way that makes everything just as bad or worse than if they just let Burke have some residential therapy. So they loose custody of BR for a few months. Possibly even a year or two. How does that stack up to loosing custody for 5 years 20 years, life? It's true, BR going to the psych ward for a while doesn't help the family name. But then, PR and JR going to prison doesn't exactly help much either. BDI is ridiculous if it's actually looked at. We don't want to loose Burke, and to make sure we don't we'll go to prison, yeah, that's the ticket. We don't want the family name tarnished, so to avoid that we'll let the world think we killed our daughter, yeah, that will work. I do agree they'd have to anticipate a skull x-ray at autopsy. Another reason to doubt they were trying to divert attention from the head wound.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #96)

JonBenet Ramsey

The set up questions

I wish there were a way to edit. I'm taking back my "Bravo" to Capricorn. I like what you said about the intruder knowing what prints to wipe, but then you assume it had to be an intruder, or with the family. No reason for it to be either.  (Dec 2, 2013 | post #15)