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Christian

I have a question concerning Mark chapter 5

Duck, Look in 2 Corinthians chapter5. It speaks of us not being found naked, as in not being without a body. I have thought about this thing with the swine and the demons not wanting to be left without some form of fleshly body. Just my speculation here, but I think they want to be as we are, with some form of flesh. Even after the resurrection we will have some form of body, so we will not be found naked. The term naked does not mean without clothing, but without a body, here in this context. The Word also mentions that we as believers are members of the body of Christ. Just food for thought. Perhaps this may be something like that of the sons of God coming into the daughters of men thing as well. I know that some think the sons of God were only the line of godly men, but I believe they were fallen angels.  (Jun 19, 2010 | post #35)

Christian

Born sinners?

What happened to my na-sayers?  (Jun 13, 2010 | post #71)

Christian

You Cannot Stop Sinning Until After Jesus Returns

I am a bible student, but I must have missed that part about crucifying the flesh, maybe I missed the class the day it was taught. Where does it speak of it?  (Jun 13, 2010 | post #28)

Christian

You Cannot Stop Sinning Until After Jesus Returns

You trying to think for me? I never said I do not sin.  (Jun 12, 2010 | post #15)

Christian

You Cannot Stop Sinning Until After Jesus Returns

First I would like to say, I'm none of the denominations mentioned, I'm Baptist. Second I would like to say, We do not have a sinful nature. And third, This Romans chapter 7 as mentioned is not Paul in his saved state, but rather he (Paul) is using his past life "as an example" to show how he was before he was saved and then chapter 8 is a celebration of the fact that he is no longer a slave to sin as he was in chapter 7. I know you will differ with me on this and am more than glad to prove myself with scripture. I have studied the first 8 chapters of Romans for a few years. I studied it from at least two perspectives and I see both view points. I understand how it has been misinterpreted that this is Paul a saved man struggling with sin and still can't overcome. But to the contrary It is not. Paul with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit has left a number of sign post pointing in a certain train of thought (direction) here that leads to his conclusion of where and how chapter 7 does fit in as a lost man.  (Jun 11, 2010 | post #7)

Christian

Born sinners?

[Eph 2:1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; [2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Here we have a verse (Eph 2:3) that is used to prove that we are born sinners. It is the phrase "by nature the children of wrath" that one says we are born the children of wrath or born sinners. They see it as because we are born by nature the children of wrath or because we are born sinners we are children of wrath, either way is the same. But when looked at in its full context of the whole it is not saying by nature we are children of wrath because we are born sinners, but rather it is because we have walked the ways of the world we have become the children of wrath. In other words it is the natural consequences of our disobedience that we have become children of the wrath to come. We were lead away by the lust of our flesh, then we became sinners and for that we then fell under the wrath of God. Paul covers falling to the lust of the flesh very well in Romans chapter7.  (Jun 5, 2010 | post #67)

Christian

Born sinners?

What are my credentials? Well by the age of 3 I was speaking some English and by the time I finished elementary school I was reading and writing English. By the time I got my GED I got an diploma for it. I probably could have done better, but school just seemed to be like speaking Greek to me. Other than all that, I just got me an AV bible and a filling of the Holy Spirit. I would not put a whole lot of stock in being taught Greek, Latin or Hebrew just so I can say, "NOW I can finally understand the Word of God". I think the Word of God is much more simpler than you are giving it credit for. Its not that I can't or don't appreciate a good education or some good commentary, but one must remember that many have gotten it wrong because of their education. Remember how blind the Pharisees and other Temple leaders were because they "knew better than everyone else"? You see how a "good education" has turned many universities into "dens of higher enlightenment ", even those that once were open for the purpose to prepare men for the pulpit. Harvard and Yale do come to mind. They got so educated that they did not need God, Jesus or The Word any longer. They had all the answers without religion. May our country and all it contains fall upon its face and repent before God before judgment falls! I'm not knocking John for his understanding of Greek, but it is perfectly clear in English, in the KJV. Context, context and context. But then again I'm not a Calvinist. But I do attend a SBC if that counts for anything. I just don't sit on my hands waiting to be spoon feed the Word like most, I actually read it for myself. Spurgeon has preached some very good sermons, as long as he stayed away from the TULIP. The man that I sat under for a number of years that married my wife and I, He was a full 5 point Calvinist. He preached good sermons, as long as he did not expound on the 5 points of Calvinism. I will say it is rather strange that I would even be in an SBC, because most if not all are at least a 2 point Calvinist Church whereas I am a 0 point Calvinist. And by no means am I an Arminian either. Its Christ crucified and the grace of God that I'm saved, no works on my part that I should deserve forgiveness of my sin.  (Jun 5, 2010 | post #65)

Christian

Born sinners?

Well I'll have to say I've never heard that one yet, that Paul was not lost. I don't think Jesus would have agreed with that. In Paul's mind he was not lost, but in reality he was as lost as any could be. Jesus said he came to save the lost, but could not save those that did not consider themselves lost. Thats why he did not spend much time with the Pharisees, they considered themselves righteous already, they had the "Law" and to them that was all they needed. I understand he was/is a Jew, but not a Sadducee. Paul was a Pharisee. I really don't see the connection with this to the subject at handThis word "made" has you thinking we are born sinners, but to the contrary this word "made" is not saying we are born sinners in the least. This word "made" is a way of saying we are designated or appointed in the same manner as an elected official is placed in an office or position. Look it up for yourself in the Strong's if you don't agree with me. Its not "made" like we would make a clay pot or something of that nature. Furthermore if it were saying that we are born/made sinners when Adam sinned it would also be saying that the righteousness we have now was imparted and not imputed when we are born again, its the same Greek word both times. We are not righteous because of imparted righteousness, but only because of imputed righteousness. We have done nothing to deserve this gift of righteousness, but that is what one would have to conclude if you are to use this word "made" to say we are sinners. This word "made" as I have stated is a word that designates one to something and in this case we have been designated by Adam to live outside of the fellowship of God because of his one act of sin and that led to our sinning. It was the act of our Saviour and our believing in Him that designates/made us able to be called the sons of God. I understand how these words can be taken wrongly, but even with the context of the subject it does not imply we are born sinners. If we were born sinners and as some also use Eph.2:3 (by nature the children of wrath) to support this, then Paul would not have had to go through a long process to make us understand that "For all have sinned" in chapters 1-3, but rather just said, We are sinners because we are born that way. No, he went through the detailed process of proving how we "became" sinners in the first chapter of Romans. Read very slow and closely the first chapter of Rm. Watch how he says they "became" the way they are. It is a detailed "process " of how they became the way they did. Looking forward to your response. I'll cover Eph 2:3 next time I get back on line, because I know it will come upI think that is putting the cart before the horse.  (Jun 2, 2010 | post #58)

Christian

Born sinners?

I can't say I've heard of John Gill, but what he says is the norm so it rally doesn't matter who he is. Are you saying that you are in agreement with John Gill?  (Jun 2, 2010 | post #53)

Christian

Born sinners?

Hello Beinahh, What did pass? sin or death? It says sin passed, does it not? He is not saying sin passed to all men, but that death passed to all men. He is making a comparison to how Adam brought death through his one sin and how Jesus brings life. Now because Adam did sin something else did happen, no question about it. What happened? He was put out of garden away from God. Adam was separated from God and everyone that was born after that was as well. For that all sin. or you can say, because of that all sin. Adam and all mankind are made to be in fellowship with God. When we are not in fellowship with him we will sin. That is all that is saying. Now I realize that it says "for that all 'have sinned'"(past tense), but Paul was speaking to folks about everyone that was living and died from Adam to that point. Notice how Paul starts his argument off in the book of Romans. Rms 1:18; For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;. It does not starts off with being born sinners, it just goes right to the point of men holding truth and living unrighteous. In other words they knew better, but went right on and done what they knew was against their better understanding. Babies do NOT hold truth or even untruth for that matter, they are innocent, guiltless, sinless. Also what a baby is, is carnal/earthy/natu ral born out of the presence of God and into a sinful world with carnal needs and worst of all with people all around to teach them the ways of the world and not of God. To say it another way, we are born in an environment that is suited to the flesh and our spirit is out of proportion to this environment to deal with it. Our spirit was made to be in fellowship with God's Spirit and with God being in control our spirit could then be able to make this flesh do what we know we should be doing. That is the whole concept of Romans 6,7 and 8. The flesh is put to death in Romans 6 and we conform to the guidance of the Spirit in Chapter 8. Chapter 7 is a rearview mirror look of Paul's former unsaved/lost life. (another topic), but we can go into it if you wish, because it does have some things that could go along with this subject.  (May 31, 2010 | post #30)

Christian

Born sinners?

Hello bible teacher, Last things first: Have I ever raised kids or babysat? the answer to that is yes and yes. I've been raising kids sense I was 10years old and now I'm 43. Three younger siblings. I have raised three of my own as well and they are grown. Two living and one with the Lord. I think I know where you are going with that, so I'll just say, it still does not prove we are "born" sinners just because they have sinned. You are interpreting scripture by your experiences with that one. Well I would say you have contradicted yourself with Ps51:5 and Ps 139:13-16. What did happen back in the garden? That may answer a few things. They disobeyed God. So were they sinners before they ate or when they plucked the fruit with the intentions of eating? What changed within them after they ate? Some say their nature changed. Well if it did then all you can say to that is, they became as God, knowing good and evil. Is it sinful to know good from evil? if it is then what would that make God? (that just makes me nervous to even think that much less type it out.) We are estranged from God that is the problem. Its not that our flesh is sinful when we are born, but that it is weak as Paul says in Rms 8:3 and Jesus says the same thing to the disciples in the garden. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak, Jesus said in Matthew 26:41. Adam sinned with only one temptation in a paradise; how much more will we sin not being in the presence of God, with many temptations, and existing in a fallen world? Point being; we don't need to be born sinners or even have some sinful nature to sin, just take God out of the picture and all hell breaks loose.  (May 31, 2010 | post #29)

Christian

Born sinners?

Sorry about being so long in replying. Book, chapter and verse please. If we are going to do this thing right then for those that are reading along we must have reference for context. I agree that God is perfect, but that is not the subject at hand. The question is, "are we born sinners or do we become sinners?" I also will go along with you as far as the bible not always saying something directly but maybe in context. Such as the doctrine of the Trinity. It dose not speak of it as The Trinity, but we understand the concept. or the rapture, but those are another topic for another thread. But for this idea of being born sinners I don't even see it in the context much less never reading it to say in your own words " the Bible says we are born with sin."  (May 31, 2010 | post #27)

Christian

Question about the concept of needing the Holy Spirit to ...

I do wish there were a better way of knowing whose on and whose chatting on this site. I like facebook pretty well for that. I'm there under the same name if you want to look me up sometime. I'm also a myspace member under the same name.  (May 29, 2010 | post #10)

Christian

Born sinners?

The question is are we born sinners or do we become sinners?  (May 29, 2010 | post #1)

Christian

Question about the concept of needing the Holy Spirit to ...

I will try and constrain myself. But this was a good example of how we can differ on certain things. Native probably does not know I started a thread on this very subject (born sinners?)many months ago. I will try and see if I can locate it and the argument can continue there. As I remember, it got hijacked, so as I will only try and answer direct questions from here on out on this thread.  (May 29, 2010 | post #7)

Q & A with Dell Russell

Headline:

And God saw that it was good

Hometown:

Pontotoc, Mississippi

Neighborhood:

In the Hills

Local Favorites:

Working outside,reading the bible and religious material

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God,Family,and Country

When I'm Not on Topix:

Working for a living. I'm on myspace or facebook or just reading. Doing what my doctor said not to.

Read My Forum Posts Because:

We all might learn something.

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The Holy Spirit

Read This Book:

The Holy Bible KJV

Favorite Things:

To know more about the one that died for me.

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God and what he wants for me to do. My family and those that have gone on before me.

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myspace.com/dellrussell

I Believe In:

God and freedom