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Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

Hi Newtonian, posts 256 and 257 are missing, but the rest seem to be showing on the other page. On the other 1975 thread I gave up due to the posting issues - sorry, nothing personalNo comment :) Like I said, there's much going on here. It's hard to go into detail because you literally have to go through it to understand properly - putting it onto paper just doesn't do it any justice. Further, sometimes our passions can get the better of us (this applies equally to both sides). Personality and interpretation plays a huge part also. For example; a JW could come across as really smarmy/sneaky and presumptuous of their own importance compared to one from "Christendom ". This is often infuriating to the ex JW. Conversely, an ex JW may sound extremely condescending, insulting and sacrilegious when talking about the JW religion. This is nothing short of apostasy to Jehovah in the eyes of a JW. The "cure" would be to not talk about the differences in our religious interpretations, but then this forum would die! Although I don't agree with the atheistic over-tones of this cartoon, it amusingly summarises this point: https://www.youtub e.com/watch?v=Ge45 R9qoW_Y  (1 hr ago | post #270)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

No, thankfully though, I'm not equating myself with Christ, nor does any other down to earth Christian. We are supposed to be pupils, not mastersNo, but Jesus used his intelligence to stand up against wrongdoing. Sectarians ("Master, he is not one of us") often DO exult themselves as "greatest in the kingdom" (become doctrinally puffed up), which is something that needs addressing, otherwise you're not standing up for righteousness (considering the whole) are you? Do you think it's OK for a religion to treat others like dirt in the name of God? Or would you rather turn a blind eye and not sympathiseIronical ly, "humility " is often false and used (insincerely) to show off - "I'm so lowly, God must be impressed with me" :) Want to really impress? Wear sackcloth, cut yourself all over, starve yourself etc....that'll really impress God (not). Humility is often misconstrued, especially when talking about Jesus. This SON OF GOD was always right about things spiritual. Said Jesus: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me". Was there any need for Jesus to be "humble" here? Although, yes, he was humble, he "emptied himself". Real humility is knowing your place in the universe (limitations and all). It's about reality, not thinking more of yourself than you should. It's not about repressing yourself when the time is right to speak up. Real humility is knowing that we are all in the same boat here as humans (all brothers rather than mini Messiahs), not one group pretending to the "best Christians in the whole world". Or do you think this is fair playBecause he knew Peter was only human/flesh, something YOU forget about yourself. Case in pointOK God, thanks for the feedback....Next time I'll show some humility and 100% agree with everything you (Samson) say. As for reward? I wish! Is this your idea of a reward? An internet chat? Stick around longer and you'll soon see me getting called an idiot/Satan worshipper/dumb hippie/piece of sh*t etc etc etc...it's so charming, just lapping it up. You'll be so jealous lol  (1 hr ago | post #269)

Jehovah's Witness

You know, churchoids-

The bible is often described as a "sword". ...do you think this means cutting people up with a sharp instrument? (Matthew 26:52)...all who draw the sword will die by the sword. The real battle is spiritual. If someone doesn't understand love, then they are in "spiritual darkness/blindness ". If one doesn't get that fundamental part, then everything else is just fluff (a noisy gong or clanging cymbal as Paul put it). (Ephesians 6:13) For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places. Putting on the "breastplate of righteousness " does not involve slapping your fellows like you're some hardcore warriorYou don't understand my beliefs. Read here for more info (especially part 5, a small sample related to this): http://www.urantia .org/urantia-book- standardized/paper -159-decapolis-tou r ------------------ ------------------ --------- (1 Peter 3:9) Don't repay evil for evil. Don't retaliate with insults when people insult you. Instead, pay them back with a blessing... Why is this (paying back evil with goodness) clever/courageous and not just some half hearted mushy talk? Because far from just being passive and taking crap (rolling over), you've boldly and positively taken action. That's what it means by "turning the other cheek". It doesn't mean becoming a punch bag while trying to sing kumbaya lol. You seek methods to genuinely "let your light shine" in a way that will brighten "the way" for others to follow the "bread from heaven" to the Father (Hebrews 10:20). It will soften the enemies heart so that they possibly can be converted to the ways (mind) of Christ also. Or at least become more receptive. That takes bravery, and it's called the "living way" for good reason. It takes courage to ignore your ego and put others first to that degree. It takes guts to change your natural inclination of anger/vengeance. We all need to work on it. The real show of a "tough guy" is one who can "carry his torture stake" (i.e. become self forgetful while putting other people's needs first). This is not some misguided zeal for God, true religion produces attractive fruitage that everyone can discern (James 1:27, Luke 2:52Following on from the above scriptures; do you understand the implication here? If the Teacher is telling you not to retaliate, and to bless your "enemies ".....then it also stands to reason that there is a VALID reason for it. We humans are narrow sighted! We make up enemies in our own head, or people misunderstand us. If you don't see your "enemies " as valid human beings (i.e. a fellow mortal just like yourself), then you will never be able to fully apply Jesus' teachingsYou're reading too much into a very basic teaching, and turning into a negative! Carrying a bag the extra mile is illustrating the proper Christian mindset. He's trying to change the person's view to duty; Instead of grumbling about it, do it with zeal. When it involves doing things for other people you should view your service to these fellows with enthusiasm (such as washing someone's stinking feet). In this way, you turn some passive and begrudgingly negative view to a service into one into an active (living) and positive one.  (4 hrs ago | post #447)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

I'm saying things how they come across. Nothing more, nothing less. Or do you want me to refrain from using my God given abilities of discernment (like anyone else, such as you, can use)? If you don't want to be called out as some spoiled child of the Pharisees, don't behave like it.  (16 hrs ago | post #263)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

There is a lot more to the story than meets the eye. On an internet debate forum, and especially where emotions run high from past incidents, it is surprising when an argument DOESN'T happen :) While arguing online, it is hard to see anyone's love. However, just for reflection, think about the fact that this interaction is better than outright indifference. Part of the reason for a "mob mentality" on here happens due to a few things; thoughts aligning (i.e. fed up of spiritual abuse), and also support. A JW still deep within the religion generally still have their brotherhood for this....people who leave don't. I understand this is hard to be on the receiving end of though. Many times though, I have noticed an outright doctrinal arrogance that is fostered within the JW sect. That's not a dig, it's reality, something many don't even know they're doing. This trait is so hard to face sometimes that the only other option is to laugh - it would literally drive one up the wall if we didn't. So in that sense, it appears as if we have no respect for anything "holy", that we're just a bunch of jeerer's. That's not the case at all, it's a coping mechanism. Case in pointWhether you're aware of it or not, this is pure arrogance (going beyond your station). To assume that only your definition of scripture is right, and that other Christians need a change in heart. This would be ok if it was based on the main theme of scripture (love of God and neighbour....which is a safe "bet"), however, when it comes to more sideline subjects that are open to interpretation, it's beyond delusional to think you have something above anyone else. (Genesis 40:8) "We both had dreams," they answered, "but there is no one to interpret them." Then Joseph said to them, "Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me your dreams." Of course, you can agree to disagree. Not saying you're not allowed an opinion, just don't raise it to Deity status.  (16 hrs ago | post #262)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

 (Yesterday | post #248)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

See this is where certain mindsets mess with a person's sense of reality. Just because I've not taken you seriously in this thread (plus mocked a little) you've spat your dummy out the pram and concluded that Jesus also MUST be angry with me too. Don't worry, this sort of thing happens all the time. Some of us are worse than others. But you know what? In another couple of days I'll forget about this whole conversation and treat you like a normal human being again. People like you however will likely stay on the doctrinal high horse, judging others as less than yourself as if that's your Christian mission in life.  (Yesterday | post #247)

Jehovah's Witness

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Oh look here, more WT style "food at the proper time". I sure do LOVE spam... https://www.youtub e.com/watch?v=anwy 2MPT5RE  (Yesterday | post #244)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

The funniest part is being shunned by those who were never that zealous to start with! Boy do you need humility when THAT happens. The crime that deserves this treatment? Disagreeing with doctrine and the way things are done.....shocking. ...(not). But of course, it's only pride that stops a person from believing that 7 men in office hold the key to heaven/paradise. It's only pride that makes a person disagree with a particular organisation's interpretation of the bible, life and God. (sarcasm) lol  (Yesterday | post #243)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

It's a turn of phrase. You "slap people" (not me) by concluding (without evidence or the authority) that they are "Godless ".  (Yesterday | post #240)

Jehovah's Witness

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I feel about as much pain from your words as listening to a mental patient accusing me of being from the DevilMore delusions...  (Yesterday | post #238)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

For me personally, I can have a JW friend as long as I don't "stumble " them by talking too much of their religion. It's very much on their terms, something you have to like it or lump it. Tricky because the whole religion is tied in with "what God feels". So a criticism of "the order" is not just something human to them, it's an attack against God. Although these friendships are very distant compared to what they were before when inside the religion. It's sad really. You basically have to either accept that they're "dead", cut your losses (lost to the clutches of a sect) or make do with a mediocre relationship that's not half what it used to be. There are negatives/positive s to each choice, if you can call it a choice. To stay neutral means a constant reminder of the religion, constant attempts of them to get you back (as if you're life depends on it). To cut your losses takes a lot of courage and upheaval to "go out into the wild" and start over with new friends and no reminders of the religion (e.g. moving away to another area). This is hard for some because they only ever trust and develop deep relationships with people (which takes lots of time and things in common). This religion leaves a trail of destruction behind it, that's for sure! Those who don't think so probably weren't very dedicated to it in the first place.  (Yesterday | post #235)

Jehovah's Witness

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Why would a person be "twofold a son of Gehenna"? Well they become more worldly than they were before. The definition of worldly would be someone non-spiritual. In other words: (Matthew 23:15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twice as fleshly as you are! This is what man-made organisations do. They distract from the deeper things in life to such a degree it becomes dangerous because the victim actually FEELS that they are being spiritual (e.g. going to 100% meetings, answering up regularly, plenty of return visits) when in fact these activities are only of surface value. It lulls them into a false sense of security, when in reality it's as Jesus called it, washing the outside of the cup. Whitewashed graves. What's the point in all these activities if you don't even feel the need to support your own community or even your own FAMILY? Tragically, when a family member needs them the most is probably likely when they are going to SHUN them as a "wicked person". What's the point in all these activities (patting people on the back, giving them a prayer) when they actually needed a drink of water?  (Yesterday | post #233)

Jehovah's Witness

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Agreed. It's not always a case of physical burdens (i.e. routine keeping the membership extremely busy)....it's the mental/emotional/s piritual burdens on top of that too: 1) Spy on your brothers/sisters, rat them out, judge them, compete with them etc. 2) Don't rejuvenate with Jesus' plain words, rather, fill your mind with study ("theocratic " fluff). 3) Remind the flock 24/7 about the Devil being after them - playing with their mind. 4) Discourage the flock by reminding them how "spiritually lacking" they are (e.g. ministry hours) 5) Encourage an escapist attitude to life ("can't wait till God ends all my troubles and woes"). 6) Discourage the flock from spiritually refreshing activities (e.g. alone time, relaxing without pressure of "assignments " etc etc etc). 7) Encourage an unbalanced outlook to life (don't become stable, this life won't last). 8) Encourage a negative and mistrustful outlook to people in general (the heart is treacherous...the Devil uses others, even your family/friends/bre thren to get to you etc). All these burdens are just scratching the surface! A religion of Jesus is meant to put a person in a better position than they would be without it (helping them to cope with life's problems), except in this case, they become worse off due to the above and more. (Matthew 23:15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves.  (Yesterday | post #232)

Jehovah's Witness

Read below and say you believe they have the truth

Geee.....maybe people are calling you out because of your delusions of grandeur and judgement of others people's heart as if you're God Himself, NOT because of some heavenly qualities of goodness/righteous ness. Cue the further self exultation derived from a persecution complex..... "See! I'm being persecuted for being sooooo righteous. Look Lord, aren't I special?!" lol Some people don't understand the concept of reaping what you sow; if you slap others in the face, expect another slap back in some form or another (e.g. bringing you back down to earth).  (Yesterday | post #231)

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