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Jehovah's Witness

Letting Go

Just wanted to drop a line to those who might wonder about my absence. I have come to terms with the reality that my 71-year-old father (next month) and my 68-year-old mother (in March) will probably not be leaving that ridiculous cult before they die. For my sisters who are still in, my dear nieces who I miss, and my extended family of blood relatives, all of whom I miss dearly, I am finally grieving their loss from my life. If anything does change in the future, I have already forgiven, and I continue to forgive, their adherence to the cult's requirements. My heart is open to them. My heart is eternally closed to that filthy cult and all that it represents, closed to its disgusting and putrid rotting fruit it bears into the world, but I don't grieve for its loss anymore, not even for the loss of the pretty promises that "religion " deceptively convinced me would come true. I will continue to warn real people, in real life, but I simply can't keep caring whether the religion exists. I cannot continue caring deeply whether my family still insists on loving lies rather than their family members. It hurts too badly to care, so I am letting it go. I will, instead, spend my energy, time, and attention on my chosen family, the members of which are many. I had hoped I would someday reach the point of being an ex-ex-JW, I am finally there. The JW defenders who post here are deluding themselves, but I can't keep caring about their lies and self-deceits. They harm themselves and others by supporting the long-con being orchestrated by confidence men also known as the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Those wicked men who lead the cult, who brazenly stand in the place of both Jehovah and Jesus, and who falsely claim to speak for Jehovah to the world ... those men ask the entire world for trust and confidence and have given no reason for either. Rather, they have given voluminous reasons to name them "confidence men" and reject whatever they say as most likely false. I can't keep caring about that, either. It is too life consuming to do so. At the end of my life, I don't want my life to be a testament to what I am against. I will not fill my life with that religion, in any way, any longer. My spiritual abusers have robbed enough joy from me, I am done giving away my delight. They never deserved any more than nothing from me, and they can't have more than what I already have sacrificed. I wish all of you, even the idiots who are defending this filth, all the very best in life. I hope you continue to find better, and more hopeful, and delightful life. I am done wallowing in the pain of that abusive relationship I endured for decades. Farewell. Respectfully, Me  (May 9, 2016 | post #1)

Jehovah's Witness

YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael

You must have missed it. In Revelation, every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth is heard worshiping the One sitting on the throne and the Lamb. Revelation 5:13 And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” "Every creature" includes Michael, but does not include the Lamb. Hebrews 1:13-14 is not meant to be answered, "Michael! That's the angel to whom God said, 'Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet'!" God did not say that to ANY angel. Hebrews 1:6 says that God instructs that ALL the angels to obeisance to Jesus. Including Michael.  (May 4, 2016 | post #7055)

Jehovah's Witness

Celebrating Birthdays: A Conscience Matter

You don't want to declare the various names you have posted under. If they are all you, why wouldn't you? Your reluctance to do so smacks of indirect deceit, and of your unwillingness to DIRECTLY lie by omission, which would be admirable under other circumstances. But, you are very incorrect when you say your use of sock puppet pseudonyms ought to be regarded as no big deal by fairminded people. It WOULD be no big deal if you declare them, and everyone can independently verify your claims that you have only pretended to be someone else one time. You aren't declaring them, so we are each left with whether we trust you. I don't, in part because you are not consistent in how you present yourself, in part because you tend to swoop in claiming to have been absent for months and yet seem well aware of many posts within that time period, in part because you "feel" off to me, there is an ineffable vibe of "wrongness " about youNot at all. It is about your personal claims of authenticity and your personal unwillingness to declare who you have been, here. You have made it personal, many times over, in many threads ... and yet, you want to remain impersonal and detachedMaybe you are telling the truth. Which other names have you been, sock puppet? I only have the word of your latest sock puppet that the truth matters to you, at all. Perhaps another of your sock puppets has denied that the truth is owed to anyone, on the grounds of Theocratic Warfare. For instance, if you are also ThirdWitnessTrue, but I wonder if you will give it? You don't seem to care much about the truth, so probably even though you have one you will keep it to yourselfI know he's dishonest and deceptive. He doesn't pretend otherwise. You do. As expected, you didn't answer meA condition? On your non-responsive task you set for me? Oh, thanks so muchIs that RECENTLY, or over the entire time you have been posting hereThen you have not been different on other forums; that doesn't make it betterCorrect. Some people don't. Some people don't mind that there is an actual record of their progression of thought in a discussion forum.  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #902)

Jehovah's Witness

personally....!

Exactly.  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #1372)

Jehovah's Witness

Celebrating Birthdays: A Conscience Matter

That MIGHT be true, if someone were able to confirm that the views you have expressed have (1) all been your genuine views, by direct comparison to your previous views under various names, and (2) you have not ALSO posted supporting your own posts under different names, to create the false impression that you are actually two different people each agreeing with the same conclusionsIf any of your alter egos have done either of the two listed above, if any have either created "straw men" for another of your pseudonyms to battle against or have posted support for the perspectives or arguments offered by another of your pseudonyms, then you HAVE tried to deceive others and pretended that you are someone else entirely. So, why are you unwilling to declare all of your sock puppets so that we can verify your authenticity? Is it the same reason the Governing Body won't declare the authorship of any published articles? To insure that there is no ACTUAL accountability for your deceptions and falsehoods except to God, before whom none of you cultists seem to fear to stand, to answer for your dishonesty?  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #899)

Jehovah's Witness

YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael

Changes in doctrine create the "Shibboleth " Jehovah's Witnesses use to identify weak ones or ones who are pretending. If you were closely associated with Jehovah's Witnesses in the 1970's and 1980's, you would know the earth is near the brink, you would know the gathering and harvest work is being done right now, under the direction of the angels, you would know that we are at the very end of the last days, and you would have some concept tickling the back of your mind that however long Adam had been without Eve was the most we have past 1975 before the Great Tribulation begins. You would also be certain that the "new order" would emerge out of the final act of that Tribulation, Armageddon. The term "new system" would sound strange. You would have transitioned from teaching 6 month programs in the Truth That Leads to Eternal Life into programs of two publications, You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth as the first, then any from a number of secondary ones, with an emphasis on the recommendation to study Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace. This series of studies could be conducted in as little as a year, but typically would run into two years or more. You would know it is encouraged that students who are not progressing be abandoned, er, that is, don't continue studying with those who are not progressing. You would know that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is the remnant of the anointed remaining on the earth and it is NECESSARY for salvation to identify them and associate with them, even though you would very recently have become a little uncertain HOW, precisely, to identify them, since not every partaker of the emblems should be trusted to be mentally healthy. You would, by default, be developing increasingly deeper trust in the Governing Body, because SURELY they are genuinely anointed, and therefore, even if you cannot depend upon your identification of individual partakers, you can trust that Jehovah would never allow a pretender among the Governing Body. Except for Ray Franz, but that isn't important to you, because Jehovah proved to be with his people by exposing Ray Franz, rather than by preventing Ray Franz to ever become a member of the Governing Body. You would be peripherally aware that a number of bodies of elders had been disfellowshipped, a number of congregations had been disbanded, and you would hear the whispers of apostasy being the cause ... and you will not regard this as amiss because we are rapidly approaching Armageddon, so it makes perfect sense that Satan would be at his busiest. SO MUCH that was part of this surreality the cult created in the 1970's and 1980's is no part of the surreality of today. That was not that long ago, cultists. Wake up and smell the charlatans. They stink to high heaven, like the pile of rotting corpses of false doctrines upon which the cult is founded.  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #6993)

Jehovah's Witness

Celebrating Birthdays: A Conscience Matter

Out of curiosity, how many, and which characters have you been? I have been OldSoul, and AuldSoul, and AuldSoul1 (because I lost the email address my AuldSoul login was attached to). I have never made a secret of it. Are you willing to declare all of the pseudonyms you have posted under?  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #894)

Jehovah's Witness

YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael

Hebrews 1:5-6 For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father"? And again: "I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son"? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him." Hebrews 1:13-14 But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation? The writer of Hebrews was rather ADAMANT that Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about Jesus being Michael. Here are two witnesses in a single chapter. Revelation 5:13-14 And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: "To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever." And the four living creatures went saying: "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped. "Every creature" does not include the Lamb, rather, as Hebrews indicates, the Lamb is worshiped along with the One sitting on the throne. Many witnesses in the Bible testify that Jehovah's Witnesses have made some creative leaps of imagination and called them "the truth." One need only examine the history of the religion, discovering whether they have eventually admitted that they HAD DONE exactly that, with MANY doctrines they have taught throughout history, to understand that the cult's leaders make this sort of thing a habit. The cultists don't notice. If, next month, the Governing Body admitted that Jesus is not Michael within a month or so 8,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses would regard the fact they had EVER taught this stupidity as "no big deal." It is only important to believe falsehoods while the cult leaders still teach those falsehoods as the truth. Ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses TODAY whether this is a core doctrine of the religion, they will gladly admit "YES! It speaks to the NATURE of Jesus and demonstrates CLEARLY that Jesus is a false god, er, um, that is, it demonstrates clearly that Jesus is NOT God, even though all of the angels and all creation worship Jesus, but not really!" Ask them in 30 years, when the Governing Body has finally abandoned this doctrine, they will get offended that you even dared to ask. Much like they do with so MANY other doctrines that used to be core doctrines. Like the Divine Plan of the Ages, the MANY different and mutually exclusive pretended interpretations of receiving organ donations, the doctrine that the world had ended in 1914. Or like the MANY different and mutually exclusive pretended interpretations of "this generation," or the identity of "the faithful and discreet slave," or "the brothers of Christ," or "the belongings of Christ," or "the wild beast," or "the harlot" who rides atop it, or the "king of the north" and the "king of the south," or "Abaddon, " or the timing of the beginning and ending of the "seven times," or myriad abandoned or changed "second fulfillments, " or etc., etc., etc. So very many others. Each a core doctrine while being falsely taught as the truth. Each unimportant after the doctrine changes or is abandoned. It's a men-worshiping cult.  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #6992)

Jehovah's Witness

YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael

Its kind of tragic that Jehovah's Witnesses have to be shown the stupidity of what they are believing. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Jesus comes "with the trumpet of God," does the trumpet belong to Jesus? Is Jesus God? I say yes, of course, but I also freely admit this passage does not, in any way, support that conclusion. Is Jesus here pictured as coming with something extraordinary, with something he doesn't usually bring with him? Is he pictured as bringing something specific, something not usual, something that he will be using to accomplish a specific purpose? Yes, definitely, and this passage supports that conclusion ... conclusively. Jesus comes "with an archangel's voice," does the voice belong to Jesus? Is Jesus an archangel? This passage does not, in any way, support or negate that conclusion ... the passage becomes at conflict with itself as soon as someone suggests that it does, because the passage would then EQUALLY support that Jesus is God, which conclusion this passage also neither supports nor negates. This passage stands ALONE, in all of Scripture, even if we include all of the available ancient Apocrypha, as the sole verse that creates any association of any variety between Jesus and an archangel. There are not two witnesses. This singular "witness " neither negates nor supports the teaching that Jesus is "an archangel" at all. That misunderstanding of this passage has many multiples of witnesses opposing it, throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures and the gospels. However, there is absolutely NOTHING, in the entire Bible, linking Michael to Jesus beyond that fact that Michael is one of the ones doing obeisance to Jesus.  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #6991)

Jehovah's Witness

apostate lies about 1975

Yes, that is what I wrote to you. Your Governing Body, by contrast, does not. Your Governing Body has pretended to know, many times, and they never have known. Now, defenders of your cult leaders claim that it is an example of God's refinement of them that they have FINALLY stopped pretending to know. The fact is they were haughty and presumptuous enough to pretend they KNEW, or even that they PROBABLY knew the time for the end of world. That fact is well established in documents they published documents which they want collected and destroyed. That fact is solid, irrefutable proof that those charlatans have NEVER been discreet, in the slightestYou present that as if that makes you different from any other religiously minded Christian. That is a position YOUR cult only recently arrived at, a position your cult used to chide other Christians for having. Your religion used to expressly jibe that other so-called Christians did not understand God's timetable, and did not perceive where we are in the stream of time. As it turned out, those other so-called Christians DID, in fact, understand perfectly well where we are in the stream of time, it was your cult leaders who were completely wrong and who were acting with a grossly presumptuous spirit. It was your cult leaders, who pretended to KNOW God's timetable, that promoted false hopes to the world as the truth ... they even taught for decades that the world HAD ENDED in 1914. http://img.photobu cket.com/albums/v4 78/Baneblessed/Fal se%20Prophecy/Proc laimers-p163.jpg http://img.photobu cket.com/albums/v4 78/Baneblessed/Fal se%20Prophecy/Proc laimers-p163-sign1 .jpg Those wicked men were so incredibly LACKING in discretion that they didn't even notice that the world had not ended, according to their false and presumptuous predictions, and went right along declaring that they had been right, after all! Worse ... people believed them.  (Apr 28, 2016 | post #686)

Jehovah's Witness

Celebrating Birthdays: A Conscience Matter

There you go again, telling me what I MUST believe, in order to make your points against your imagination of my arguments validSo, you disagree that zebras may or may not run from lions because they are afraid of what they might suffer, but that we factually have no data to support the conclusion that they experience fear of potential suffering should a lion catch them? That wasn't a lie, AlanMF, that is fact. Your implication that zebras and humans are interchangeable was a lie. You need anthropomorphism to be accepted as valid in this discussion in order to validate your claim that animals have been suffering TERRIBLY for 650 million years. I know your desire for it is based in a desire to defend your religious beliefs, but lacking evidence to support the hypothesis you have put forward that zebras and humans are interchangeable [and by contextual extension, all animals are] there is no rational reason to permit anthropomorphism into this discussion. Your attempt to do so might have worked with someone who is a "poor animals!" sort of person, but that isn't me. I am very, very well aware that not many animals interchange with humans in most discussions, and that any attempts to anthropomorphize animals is highly suspect as probable propaganda to cover for weakness in supporting data. You need the appeal to emotion to sell your doctrines. Because there is no data to support your doctrines. It's just like "paradise earth," someone may BELIEVE the doctrine is Bible based, but it isn't actually in the Bible.  (Apr 27, 2016 | post #877)

Jehovah's Witness

YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael

No, I'm still very certain that if I come with three things none of those three things are part of me. Basic reading and logic are firmly intact, thanks for checking.  (Apr 27, 2016 | post #6987)

Jehovah's Witness

Celebrating Birthdays: A Conscience Matter

Survival instinct coupled with a rush of adrenalineZebras who have never been bitten by lions also run from lions, there is absolutely zero data available to support that this is as a result of communication from those zebras who were clawed or bitten and survived the experience. That is not to suggest that such communication has never occurred. Perhaps at some point in the distant past? Maybe secretly, when the zebras know there are no cameras watching? Perhaps it is communicated by pheromones? In any case, what is CERTAIN is that there is no data AT ALL to support a conclusion that they are running to escape the possibility of suffering, or that they even have a conscious concept of self sufficient to identify their own suffering as we might if it were a humanZebras that run from lions tend to have better odds of survival and reproduction than the ones who don't run from lions. You could correctly say that the instinct to run from lions is bred into them. Whether they experience anything akin to human fear of pain, or human fear of suffering, is impossible to ascertain, from currently available methods of data analysis on the matter, but implying that they DO is an outright act of anthropomorphism. Which I caught you doing and which you are amply clever enough to know, about your own "argument. " Propaganda is a nice word for it. It is, however, worth noting that severe trauma to the body of animals, including humans, results first in the nervous system shutting down. Suffering is, therefore, minimized while meeting the needs both of feeding and of culling those individuals less able to survive unaided. If we consider this shutting down of the nervous system, sometimes coupled with the involuntary shutdown or dormancy of other autonomic body functions, from the standpoint of "biological imperative" alone, it seems to be a very strange development ... since developing this trait would be very unlikely as a result of the severely DAMAGED individuals of the species also being the individuals of the species who reproduced. Or we could just pretend with you that you are correct, even though biology doesn't actually support your assertions.  (Apr 26, 2016 | post #817)

Jehovah's Witness

Celebrating Birthdays: A Conscience Matter

A handful of controversial opinions I don't submit to being mislabeled as facts. Correct, I don't like it when people attempt to cajole me or shame me into accepting opinions as fact. If there were proof and evidence that these assumptions are fact, then your feeble attempts at consensus shaming would be completely unnecessary. Your resort to such tactics demonstrates blatantly you have nothing to support your assertions besides your own subjective emotional reactions to your own conjectures.  (Apr 26, 2016 | post #816)

Jehovah's Witness

Churchoids: Jesus was BURNED ALIVE those 3 days!

Because most (all?) religions have difficulty with what the Bible actually says. Like Jehovah's Witnesses, for instance. Revelation 20:11-15 is pretty straightforward. How can someone argue that there is no coming out when the Bible plainly and bluntly disagrees. In that judgment, a decision is reached regarding each individual, no matter what their condition HAD BEEN, prior. I hope you didn't think this was some kind of "Gotchya! " I have never advocated religion, I have no interest in defending religion. Those who reject Revelation 20:11-15 are just as much in error as those who reject Revelation 14:9-11 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the wild beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of his wrath, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." Again, blunt and plain. Whether someone LIKES it is immaterial. The Bible STATES it.  (Apr 26, 2016 | post #97)

Q & A with AuldSoul1

Headline:

All the best to you, in life!

Hometown:

Fort Lauderdale, FL

I Belong To:

Christ, and to his extended family

When I'm Not on Topix:

I live my delightful life, with my true friends and with my chosen family.

On My Mind:

Letting go of pain, and abuse, and rejection, and blood. My heart remains open to them; I am living well and I intend to die happy.

I Believe In:

Living