Romney-Ryan Debate - Valliant, OK

Discuss the national Romney-Ryan debate in Valliant, OK.

Are you happy that Romney picked Paul Ryan as his VP?

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Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#104 Dec 9, 2012
pappy wrote:
<quoted text> SunShine, it makes quite a lot of difference when it is the same person, a republican, the very same person that introduced the proposal to the world --the president just brought up the subject after it was aready brought up. And why would a Senator bring a proposal to the senate floor and get the OK for an up or down vote that he agreed to and then fillibuster his very own proposal after it was set to come to a vote? First time a seantor ever fillibustered his own propoal. He got trapped by stepping into his very own trap.By the way sunshine, that proposal by Obama was turned down by the Reepublicans real quick
Go back and read post #94. I explained it there.
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#105 Dec 9, 2012
pappy wrote:
sUNsHINE i AM GIVING YOU A THREAD THAT GOES TO HEALTH CARE.GOV TO GET ALL THE INFO ON THE HEALTH CARE OF OF 2010. i DO BELIEVE EVERY ONE CALLS IT oBAMA cARE. aND THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS IN THE BILL. iT IS A MYTH CREATED BY REPUBLCIANS, THE GOPEERs Now if a death panel is supposed to be in the health care bill where is it located at so I can find it. So far no GOPEER has been able to give me a location on the myth of a death panel. So as you say one is in the act telll me where you found it at?????
It is not in the 2700 pages. Have you read all 2700 pages. You will find that almost every sentence refers you to other pages or other documents. The death panels are in another document that is part of obamacare. So you are OK with a 16 member panel, none of which have medical background, making the decision whether you can have needed heart surgery, or a kidney transplant when your kidneys stop working? A decision based on your age, or who you are related to or where you live or how important you are to society. You see, when obamacare is fully implemented, you will be using valuable resources if you have medical problems. There will be 35-40 million new people competing for doctors, hospitals resources such as rooms and surgical facilities so the panel will have to ration those resources. Those 35-40 million have, for the most part, neglected their health so they will be the most needy.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#106 Dec 9, 2012
I have read all of those pages. pages and it is no where to be found the mendtion of a death panel of any sort Sunshine. Now just who gave you the info about death panels being in the Obama health Care Bill? Same as the republicans claiming Obama was giving away free phones. No such thing--just more republican proganda rethoric. But you have a nice day, I sure am. And as for business and given their employees health insurance --if they do the get a 50 percent tax break for each employee, then as they do now a business still has their health insurance income tax write off. So in the end they come out smiliing liek a rose.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#107 Dec 9, 2012
Sunshine, If I remember correctly the health care bil had around a 1000 pages in it. Or course I do believe that in the senate the Republicans at one time or tso held up the printed version for the congress which was printed in more bold type so thsoe half bling legisaltors could read the print. And in the bold priint it added up to man ymore pages than the regul book printed for publication. But Igess a person cold have read that publication for those in congress. But there would be difference in the number of printed pages as to tyope print that was used.
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#108 Dec 10, 2012
pappy wrote:
I have read all of those pages. pages and it is no where to be found the mendtion of a death panel of any sort Sunshine. Now just who gave you the info about death panels being in the Obama health Care Bill? Same as the republicans claiming Obama was giving away free phones. No such thing--just more republican proganda rethoric.
Are you saying that you read all 2700 pages of that bill? That is quite a feat. Of course, they do not use the words "death panel" but would you agree that would be an appropriate name for a panel that says you cannot get a lifesaving treatment because of your age? They tell you you are too old, spend that money on a younger person. I have read this before and will find it to pass on to you but it will take a while. In the meantime, you might do some searching yourself.
pappy wrote:
And as for business and given their employees health insurance --if they do the get a 50 percent tax break for each employee, then as they do now a business still has their health insurance income tax write off. So in the end they come out smiliing liek a rose.
I don't know what you are talking about there. What page will I find that information on?
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#109 Dec 10, 2012
pappy wrote:
Sunshine, If I remember correctly the health care bil had around a 1000 pages in it. Or course I do believe that in the senate the Republicans at one time or tso held up the printed version for the congress which was printed in more bold type so thsoe half bling legisaltors could read the print. And in the bold priint it added up to man ymore pages than the regul book printed for publication. But Igess a person cold have read that publication for those in congress. But there would be difference in the number of printed pages as to tyope print that was used.
Pappy, You are on your toes today. I do believe that is the best excuse you have come up with yet. But you are correct on the concept. You can print a document two times - one using a very small font and the other using a very large font and each set will have a differnt number of pages. However, there is an official format for printing bills and they all use the same size font, margins, etc. but knowing the obama administration perhaps he ordered this one to be printed in smaller type so as to look smaller. He will stop at nothing to deceive the public.
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#110 Dec 10, 2012
pappy wrote:
I have read all of those pages. pages and it is no where to be found the mendtion of a death panel of any sort Sunshine. Now just who gave you the info about death panels being in the Obama health Care Bill? Same as the republicans claiming Obama was giving away free phones. No such thing--just more republican proganda rethoric. But you have a nice day, I sure am. And as for business and given their employees health insurance --if they do the get a 50 percent tax break for each employee, then as they do now a business still has their health insurance income tax write off. So in the end they come out smiliing liek a rose.
I still haven't found the documents that I have read before. Obamacare is filled with ways to devalue your medical care. Obamacare does not call them death panels but sometimes uses the term "ethics panels." Study the following information and let me know what you think and how it will impact our medical care and relationship with doctors and hospitals. The don't call it a death panel but it could mean death just the same. I'll keep looking.

Accuracy in Media’s recent conference,“ObamaNation: A Day of Truth,” highlighted the abuse and neglect hidden in Obamacare’s new Medicare regulations. Dr. Betsy McCaughey, noted expert on Obamacare, points to hidden cuts in medical services along with drastic cuts to Medicare [$716 billion by Obama] that will create unnecessary suffering:

“In October 2012, the Obama administration starts awarding ‘bonus points’ to the hospitals that spend the least per senior…And it whacks the higher spending hospitals with demerits, not only for what they spend on a patient while the patient is in the hospital, but also what is spent on that patient for the three months after hospitalization. So hospitals also get hit with demerits for recommending physical therapy after the patient leaves the hospital, or even recommending a doctor’s visit; it’s all counted. These regulations are not going to wring out the fraud, waste, and abuse. No, they are going to force these hospitals to provide a lower standard of care.”
pappy

Dallas, TX

#111 Dec 11, 2012
That panel you may be speaking of is used to find theft and abuse in Obama care Sunshine, If it is in the act. And are you republcians keep talking about the cost of health care getting out of rising to fastControl of cost is not a death panel. that is all I hear from republcians the health care cost is getting out of hand. And when someone is looking at ways to control the cost,not death panels. Even private insurance companies have panels that look at different ways to keep to control cost. At tiems they even private health care companies reject a persond medicare and make claims it is a pre-existing sickness, or not an approved medocal procedure. And Sunshine if an insurance company hires simeone for medical reserch they will do that research at the direction of what that company seeks and give them the results of what they want.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#112 Dec 11, 2012
And once agin the republicans are threatening to hold the debt ceiling hostage --threatening to go over the fiscal cliff that our country is trying to avoid. Is that not a terroristic threath? Will that threat be carried out to defy the publica need --threatening the possibe economic downfalll of our country.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#113 Dec 11, 2012
I do not think the people will stand for such going on as that happening agin
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#114 Dec 12, 2012
pappy wrote:
That panel you may be speaking of is used to find theft and abuse in Obama care Sunshine, If it is in the act. And are you republcians keep talking about the cost of health care getting out of rising to fastControl of cost is not a death panel. that is all I hear from republcians the health care cost is getting out of hand. And when someone is looking at ways to control the cost,not death panels. Even private insurance companies have panels that look at different ways to keep to control cost. At tiems they even private health care companies reject a persond medicare and make claims it is a pre-existing sickness, or not an approved medocal procedure. And Sunshine if an insurance company hires simeone for medical reserch they will do that research at the direction of what that company seeks and give them the results of what they want.
Pappy, there is some truth in what you have said but you are making a comparison that is not reasonable. Yes, the ethics panel will try to control costs. That is why they will deny an eighty-year-old fall victim hip surgery to repair a broken hip. The victim will be given "comfort treatment" meaning pain medication all because of age.

And you are correct that insurance companies look for ways to control costs and sometime deny a certain treatment but allow other treatments to be substituted. I see that as very different from what the government is doing. With an insurance company you can always move to another company or pay out-of-pocket. With the government, it is the final word. I do not like the government telling me how to handle my health issues and having access to my private records.
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#115 Dec 12, 2012
pappy wrote:
And once agin the republicans are threatening to hold the debt ceiling hostage --threatening to go over the fiscal cliff that our country is trying to avoid. Is that not a terroristic threath? Will that threat be carried out to defy the publica need --threatening the possibe economic downfalll of our country.
Republicans were elected to hold the reins on spending and taxes. I gather from your statement that you think there should be no limit on debt or spending.
Do you handle you own financial affairs in that manner?

How deep into debt can we go before China will no longer lend to us?

Should we make no attempt to lower the debt?

Should we let the president spend and tax as he wishes?

Why should we blame all of this on republicans when obama is also part of the decision making process and is responsible for several trillion of the debt?
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#116 Dec 12, 2012
pappy wrote:
I do not think the people will stand for such going on as that happening agin
What would you like to see happen?
sandman

West Grove, PA

#117 Dec 12, 2012
they know all the answers! i hate these liberals!
www.facebook.com/pages/Suitology/342441919155...
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#118 Dec 12, 2012
Pappy, here are a few lines from the actual bill. Will you explain what this means, please.
‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
‘(a) Requirement To Maintain Minimum Essential Coverage- An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.

‘(b) Shared Responsibility Payment-

‘(1) IN GENERAL- If an applicable individual fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more months during any calendar year beginning after 2013, then, except as provided in subsection (d), there is hereby imposed a penalty with respect to the individual in the amount determined under subsection (c).

‘(2) INCLUSION WITH RETURN- Any penalty imposed by this section with respect to any month shall be included with a taxpayer’s return under chapter 1 for the taxable year which includes such month.

‘(3) PAYMENT OF PENALTY- If an individual with respect to whom a penalty is imposed by this section for any month--

‘(A) is a dependent (as defined in section 152) of another taxpayer for the other taxpayer’s taxable year including such month, such other taxpayer shall be liable for such penalty, or

‘(B) files a joint return for the taxable year including such month, such individual and the spouse of such individual shall be jointly liable for such penalty.

‘(c) Amount of Penalty-

‘(1) IN GENERAL- The penalty determined under this subsection for any month with respect to any individual is an amount equal to 1/12 of the applicable dollar amount for the calendar year.

‘(2) DOLLAR LIMITATION- The amount of the penalty imposed by this section on any taxpayer for any taxable year with respect to all individuals for whom the taxpayer is liable under subsection (b)(3) shall not exceed an amount equal to 300 percent the applicable dollar amount (determined without regard to paragraph (3)(C)) for the calendar year with or within which the taxable year ends.
Sunrise

Arlington, TX

#119 Dec 12, 2012
Do you have good health insurance with your employer? I believe this section means that will go away.
‘SEC. 4980I. EXCISE TAX ON HIGH COST EMPLOYER-SPONSORED HEALTH COVERAGE.
‘(a) Imposition of Tax- If--

‘(1) an employee is covered under any applicable employer-sponsored coverage of an employer at any time during a taxable period, and

‘(2) there is any excess benefit with respect to the coverage,

there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 40 percent of the excess benefit.

‘(b) Excess Benefit- For purposes of this section--

‘(1) IN GENERAL- The term ‘excess benefit’ means, with respect to any applicable employer-sponsored coverage made available by an employer to an employee during any taxable period, the sum of the excess amounts determined under paragraph (2) for months during the taxable period.

‘(2) MONTHLY EXCESS AMOUNT- The excess amount determined under this paragraph for any month is the excess (if any) of--

‘(A) the aggregate cost of the applicable employer-sponsored coverage of the employee for the month, over

‘(B) an amount equal to 1/12 of the annual limitation under paragraph (3) for the calendar year in which the month occurs.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#120 Dec 12, 2012
Sunrise wrote:
<quoted text>What Romney said is true about 47% not paying taxes. You can't deny that. It is universally understood that he is referring to federal income tax by everyone except maybe you. It is true that not everyone is or can be rich, especially those that live off the government. It is not the government's responsibility to see that anyone becomes rich. That should be left up to the individual. Have you ever seen a single one of these people better themselves either monetarily or status in life?
Sunshine, go back and read his entire speech to his selected donors--he has no respect for the 47 percenters--and some of them are troops that came home injured. some of them are on social security and not making enough to live on. And some of them are elderly living in section 8 housing.Some of them are children not yet old enough to be responsible for their lives. And the greatestlot of them are earning minimum wages. Soem are probably earning a living and watchingo ver some of you kinssfolks in nursing homes or hospitals. And they do the hardest, dirtiest workwith no benefits--which republicans liek as their donors make more profits
pappy

Dallas, TX

#121 Dec 12, 2012
Sunshine, did you knwo Romney won an award. Yep he won an award and beat out all the other liars. Yes he won the award on the jeep lie. But the people did not Just think most of the time people never hold a candiate accountable for the lies they tell. but this time I do believe he paid the price in Ohio and the people voted against him. I though you might like to hear about this award as you so admire the man.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#122 Dec 12, 2012
I do believe Romney would beat out the best liar in TEXAS for telling whoppers. they even have a liars contest each year and give awards to the biggest whopper told. I do beoeive Romney would win hands down if he entered the contest.
pappy

Dallas, TX

#123 Dec 12, 2012
Sunshine do you knwo how many things casued the deficit to be so high? and the causes--there are about 5 or 6 of causes. Can you name them?. Now this comes from the CBO

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