Obama-Marriage Debate - Jacksonville, FL

[equalityboy81]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
Except that it is not a civil right.
The fact that siblings cannot marry based only on their linage/genetics proves that.

Siblings already have legal kinship though, straight and gay couples do not. Marriage equality will happen one day.

[Sawber]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
Siblings already have legal kinship though, straight and gay couples do not. Marriage equality will happen one day.

So? Polygamists do not have kinship but yet that is illegal.

Not only that, kinship is not the reason for marriage, just a result of it.

If kinship were the only reason for marriage, why does marriage come with far more beenfits?

If establishing kinship was the reason for gov't's involvement in marriage, it would simply give married people the same benefits that those with biological kinship have.

If you believe in equality, then you HAVE to support kinship with EQUAL benefits.

You keep dodging. Do you support the legal recognition of siblings who marry as well as polygamists or are you simply a hypocritical bigot who does not believe what he writes?

[equalityboy81]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
So? Polygamists do not have kinship but yet that is illegal.
Not only that, kinship is not the reason for marriage, just a result of it.
If kinship were the only reason for marriage, why does marriage come with far more beenfits?
If establishing kinship was the reason for gov't's involvement in marriage, it would simply give married people the same benefits that those with biological kinship have.
If you believe in equality, then you HAVE to support kinship with EQUAL benefits.
You keep dodging. Do you support the legal recognition of siblings who marry as well as polygamists or are you simply a hypocritical bigot who does not believe what he writes?

Marriage equality will happen. One day marriage in this nation will be between two human adults to the exclusion of all others. Technically if you support "traditional" marriage then you support polygamy. It doesn't concern me how many wives you have or want or if you want to marry your sister or mother. I could care less. Incest and polygamy seem to fascinate you.

[Sawber]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
It doesn't concern me how many wives you have or want or if you want to marry your sister or mother. I could care less. Incest and polygamy seem to fascinate you.

How much less could you care?

Ok, so now please explain how we are going to afford these benefits for all of these additional people and why the gov't would want to do so.

For example, if a polygamists has 60 kids and then dies, the gov't will pay out Social Security for ALL of those kids due to that one worker.

Or, for military members, for one worker, it would have provide healthcare and other services as well as perdiem when moving, for ALL of those people.

Or are not not a taxpayer so you feel it doesn't concern you?

[equalityboy81]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
How much less could you care?
Ok, so now please explain how we are going to afford these benefits for all of these additional people and why the gov't would want to do so.
For example, if a polygamists has 60 kids and then dies, the gov't will pay out Social Security for ALL of those kids due to that one worker.
Or, for military members, for one worker, it would have provide healthcare and other services as well as perdiem when moving, for ALL of those people.
Or are not not a taxpayer so you feel it doesn't concern you?

Yeah I pay taxes and gay people pay taxes. Gay couples have to pay higher taxes than straight couples because gays can't marry. Why is it that taxpayers, including gays who pay taxes, should have to fork out for all the straight married couples and their children but gays cannot take part in those benefits? Why is it that gays are expendable just because people like you disapprove of their relationships?

[equalityboy81]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
How much less could you care?
Ok, so now please explain how we are going to afford these benefits for all of these additional people and why the gov't would want to do so.
For example, if a polygamists has 60 kids and then dies, the gov't will pay out Social Security for ALL of those kids due to that one worker.
Or, for military members, for one worker, it would have provide healthcare and other services as well as perdiem when moving, for ALL of those people.
Or are not not a taxpayer so you feel it doesn't concern you?

I'm not saying polygamy is going to be legalized. I do believe though that one day same-sex couples will have full marriage benefits and sexual orientation and gender identity and expression will be protected under all the laws that cover race, religion, sex, disability, color, creed, age, marital status, political affiliation, etc.

[Sawber]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah I pay taxes and gay people pay taxes. Gay couples have to pay higher taxes than straight couples because gays can't marry. Why is it that taxpayers, including gays who pay taxes, should have to fork out for all the straight married couples and their children but gays cannot take part in those benefits? Why is it that gays are expendable just because people like you disapprove of their relationships?

The quick and easy answer is: for the same reason that polygamists and incestuous couples do.

The actual answer is that the gov't has no vested interest in providing benefits for those groups because the reason for gov't involvement in marriage does not apply to them (i.e. dealing with unplanned pregnancies).

Gays are "expendable"? Did we suddenly start exterminating them when I wasn't looking? Or are you just being emotional and hyperbolic?

[Sawber]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not saying polygamy is going to be legalized. I do believe though that one day same-sex couples will have full marriage benefits and sexual orientation and gender identity and expression will be protected under all the laws that cover race, religion, sex, disability, color, creed, age, marital status, political affiliation, etc.

If marriage is a right and marriage equality is accepted, how could polygamy or incestuous marriage NOT be legalized?

If we can arbitrarily deny them that "right", there is no reason to not deny it to gays as well.

[equalityboy81]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
The quick and easy answer is: for the same reason that polygamists and incestuous couples do.
The actual answer is that the gov't has no vested interest in providing benefits for those groups because the reason for gov't involvement in marriage does not apply to them (i.e. dealing with unplanned pregnancies).
Gays are "expendable"? Did we suddenly start exterminating them when I wasn't looking? Or are you just being emotional and hyperbolic?

Expendable doesn't always mean to let be exterminated. You know exactly what I mean. There is a lot of homophobia and heterosexism in our nation is the reason for the inequality.

[equalityboy81]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
If marriage is a right and marriage equality is accepted, how could polygamy or incestuous marriage NOT be legalized?
If we can arbitrarily deny them that "right", there is no reason to not deny it to gays as well.

If marriage is not a right then why are straights allowed that "right?" It's not equal rights.

[noshellswill]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
Expendable doesn't always mean to let be exterminated. You know exactly what I mean. There is a lot of homophobia and heterosexism in our nation is the reason for the inequality.

Nope you were right the 1st time.: gays are simply expendable. Should **the gay gene** vanish from the earth tomorrow noone would suffer, and (human)species evolution would continue as before.

[Herbery Ray]

Really it is none of my business if two people of the same gender get married.

[Selecia Jones- JAX FL]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
How much less could you care?
Ok, so now please explain how we are going to afford these benefits for all of these additional people and why the gov't would want to do so.
For example, if a polygamists has 60 kids and then dies, the gov't will pay out Social Security for ALL of those kids due to that one worker.
Or, for military members, for one worker, it would have provide healthcare and other services as well as perdiem when moving, for ALL of those people.
Or are not not a taxpayer so you feel it doesn't concern you?

My father died in 2010 and then in 2011 when she filed taxes SHE FINALLY got what happens to people who MUST file SINGLE. Gay couples are given a raw deal. We are all EQUAL and if takes SCOTUS to make you understand, then so be it. The result will be in outr favor. It may simply take some time.

[Sawber]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
Expendable doesn't always mean to let be exterminated. You know exactly what I mean. There is a lot of homophobia and heterosexism in our nation is the reason for the inequality.

No, I don't know what you mean by expendable. Expendable to who and how?

I would call it homoapathy, not homophobia. I don't fear gays, they (as gay people) just have no use in my life. Same with Moron or the Amish. Sure, as individuals, they contribute and may have use in my life but they get no special consideration because of their gayness/Mormonism/Amishness.

[Sawber]

noshellswill wrote:

<quoted text>
Nope you were right the 1st time.: gays are simply expendable. Should **the gay gene** vanish from the earth tomorrow noone would suffer, and (human)species evolution would continue as before.

That is a valid point

[Sawber]

equalityboy81 wrote:

<quoted text>
If marriage is not a right then why are straights allowed that "right?" It's not equal rights.

What? So, is the child tax credit a right? Some people don't get that.

IS a driver's license a right? Some people get that too.
How about the EITC? Some people get that but yet I don't NOT FAAAAIR!

The gov't gives out some academic scholarships to some people but not others. Are those scholarships a "right"?

[Sawber]

Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:

<quoted text>My father died in 2010 and then in 2011 when she filed taxes SHE FINALLY got what happens to people who MUST file SINGLE. Gay couples are given a raw deal. We are all EQUAL and if takes SCOTUS to make you understand, then so be it. The result will be in outr favor. It may simply take some time.

With one less tax deduction, of course her taxes went up. Beyond that, what did she lose?

[Selecia Jones- JAX FL]

Sawber wrote:

<quoted text>
With one less tax deduction, of course her taxes went up. Beyond that, what did she lose?

It hit her that all of the "couples" who are not allowed to claim the exemption...it hit her and and it will you too someday.

[noshellswill]

Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:

<quoted text>It hit her that all of the "couples" who are not allowed to claim the exemption...it hit her and and it will you too someday.

Of-course married men get a tax break ... for putting-up-with wives. It's the LEAST a compassionate society would do. Think about that my dear Ms SJ...

[equalityboy81]

noshellswill wrote:

<quoted text>
Nope you were right the 1st time.: gays are simply expendable. Should **the gay gene** vanish from the earth tomorrow noone would suffer, and (human)species evolution would continue as before.

You are evil! Gays haven't done anything to do and cause no one any harm. They aren't trying to make you become gay.