Nuclear Power Debate - Chicago, IL

Discuss the national Nuclear Power debate in Chicago, IL.

Do you support building more nuclear power plants?

Chicago supports
Support
 
54
Oppose
 
41

Vote now in Chicago:

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#21 Mar 28, 2011
fearandloathing72 wrote:
What kills me is all the bunny lovers who would like people to think that any new reactors that will be built would use the some 50 year old designs that we operate now. http://gt-mhr.ga.com/
The Japanese reactor is a steam generator. It must first operate at high temperatures to generate steam hot enough to drive generator turbines. But the newer technology GT-MHR reactor core ONLY has to operate at much lower temperatures because it uses heated helium (rather than steam) to drive a turbine generator.

Because of the helium, the core of a GT-MHR can operate at much lower temperatures, AND because of that, the core won't overheat DUE to a coolant loss (from a natural disaster), create a meltdown, and then pollute.
Article wrote:
The GT-MHR's decay heat will not cause a meltdown even if the coolant is lost. The reactor's low power density and geometry assure that decay heat will be dissipated passively by conduction and radiation without ever reaching a temperature that can threaten the integrity of the ceramically-coated fuel particles even under the most severe accident conditions.
When coolant is lost, a GT-MHR core is already at a much lower temperature than is a traditional steam generating reactor core. The GT-MHR reactor WILL cool down without the aid of coolant. A Steam reactor must have water to help it cool down long after it has been shutdown.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, NC

#22 Mar 28, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
The Japanese reactor is a steam generator. It must first operate at high temperatures to generate steam hot enough to drive generator turbines. But the newer technology GT-MHR reactor core ONLY has to operate at much lower temperatures because it uses heated helium (rather than steam) to drive a turbine generator.
Because of the helium, the core of a GT-MHR can operate at much lower temperatures, AND because of that, the core won't overheat DUE to a coolant loss (from a natural disaster), create a meltdown, and then pollute.
<quoted text>
When coolant is lost, a GT-MHR core is already at a much lower temperature than is a traditional steam generating reactor core. The GT-MHR reactor WILL cool down without the aid of coolant. A Steam reactor must have water to help it cool down long after it has been shutdown.
Not sure what you are replying too, the link I provided explains it all, also check this one out...you might want to explain to people that this design uses waste as fuel. http://www.ga.com/energy/em2/
vayz

Bekasi, Indonesia

#23 Mar 28, 2011
more save and more green
ThomasA

Gadsden, AL

#24 Mar 28, 2011
Tory II wrote:
So they completely lost power for cooling. Before they could think to use hoses (fire fighting equipment) the reactors overheated.
Now, everyone knows what to do after a nuclear power plant incurs damage: call in fire fighting equipment to keep hoses aimed at the reactors to keep them cool with water. That could prevent catastrophic damage.
We learn lessons from disasters. When the power goes off,the city water supply is down too with no pressure just as the cooling pumps were. Just as New Orleans learned a hard lesson about their pumps and backup power systems, we will have to build in uninterruptable emergency cooling systems to all new nuclear plants. It has to be a giant version of your computer UPS system at home and at the office.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#25 Mar 29, 2011
ThomasA wrote:
We learn lessons from disasters. When the power goes off,the city water supply is down too with no pressure just as the cooling pumps were. Just as New Orleans learned a hard lesson about their pumps and backup power systems, we will have to build in uninterruptable emergency cooling systems to all new nuclear plants. It has to be a giant version of your computer UPS system at home and at the office.
Apparently, you didn't learn anything from my post.

It is impossible to have "backup" cooling from gravity fed or permanently installed backup pumps or water supply, BECAUSE those backups can also be damaged. The solution is to bring in mobile water pumping equipment, which is what the Japanese are using now.

If you understand the modern GT-MHR reactor you will know they don't require backup cooling to prevent a radiation disaster.

Go back and read my post on GT-MHR reactors (helium cooled reactors).

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#26 Mar 29, 2011
Post 21 explains the GT-MHR helium cooled reactor. The website provides a poor description, mine is much better and easier to understand.
fearandloathing72 wrote:
Not sure what you are replying too, the link I provided explains it all, also check this one out...you might want to explain to people that this design uses waste as fuel. http://www.ga.com/energy/em2/
That link easily explains there are easy solutions for recycling nuclear waste.

Again, in a nutshell: my explanation of the modern helium cooled reactor:

Newer helium cooled reactors operate at much lower temperatures than the older water cooled reactors. Because of that, their reactors can cool down safely without the need for cooling AFTER a disaster (damage to a reactor).
Karma Kazee

Palo Cedro, CA

#27 Mar 29, 2011
The U.S has more radioactive waste and spent fuel rods than any other country (71,000) metric tons, plus we store 5-7 times as much spent fuel, in a single pool of water (that needs to be circulated with electrical) pumps than Japan does. These storage pools are at the heart of the problem in Japan, being they are not in protective containment. Sure, the Helium cooled design looks enticing as do the other "new" models (thorium, PBR)but will never become a working reality as long as big oil has us by the cuff.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, NC

#28 Mar 29, 2011
Tory II wrote:
Post 21 explains the GT-MHR helium cooled reactor. The website provides a poor description, mine is much better and easier to understand.
<quoted text>
That link easily explains there are easy solutions for recycling nuclear waste.
Again, in a nutshell: my explanation of the modern helium cooled reactor:
Newer helium cooled reactors operate at much lower temperatures than the older water cooled reactors. Because of that, their reactors can cool down safely without the need for cooling AFTER a disaster (damage to a reactor).
They do not operate at lower temps, read the damn link, READ it. You say the opposite. of what the information in the link provides?? Then you want to act like your false information is better than the people who designed the damn thing?? MORON, You use my links and then muck up the info and try to make it appear to be your own. You should learn to read and check your facts before you post.
Smedskjaer

Tˇrshavn, Faroe Islands

#29 Mar 29, 2011
Learn your physics. Helium has a much higher heat capacity than steam. The reactor operates at a higher temperature because the helium requires far more energy per degree increase in temperature. The helium operates at a lower temperature, which is exactly what the website said.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#30 Mar 29, 2011
fearandloathing72 wrote:
They do not operate at lower temps, read the damn link, READ it. You say the opposite. of what the information in the link provides?? Then you want to act like your false information is better than the people who designed the damn thing?? MORON, You use my links and then muck up the info and try to make it appear to be your own. You should learn to read and check your facts before you post.
Here is the proof I'm correct:
Article wrote:
The decay heat at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl caused the reactor fuel to melt, even after the fission reaction had essentially stopped, because of the loss of cooling water.

The GT-MHR's decay heat will not cause a meltdown even if the coolant is lost. The reactor's low power density and geometry assure that decay heat will be dissipated passively by conduction and radiation without ever reaching a temperature that can threaten the integrity of the ceramically-coated fuel particles even under the most severe accident conditions.
As I said, a GT-MHR reactor operates at temps much lower than a reactor designed to be cooled with water (in part because it's cooled with helium AND because of that it doesn't require the extra power a water cooled reactor requires).

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#31 Mar 29, 2011
Smedskjaer wrote:
Learn your physics. Helium has a much higher heat capacity than steam. The reactor operates at a higher temperature because the helium requires far more energy per degree increase in temperature. The helium operates at a lower temperature, which is exactly what the website said.
NO.

If the GT-MHR reactor operated at higher temps, then it could casue a meltdown after it was shutdown (the same as a water cooled reactor).

The GT-MHR core only needs to operate at temps lower than a water cooled reactor BECAUSE it is cooled with helium. The helium acts as both coolant and turbine driver. Because of that, a GT-MHR core operates with a much smaller (therefore cooler) engine. After it is shutdown it will cool down on its own without the need for coolant.
Len

Peoria, IL

#32 Mar 29, 2011
Global Warming enough said.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, NC

#33 Mar 29, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>Here is the proof I'm correct:
<quoted text>
As I said, a GT-MHR reactor operates at temps much lower than a reactor designed to be cooled with water (in part because it's cooled with helium AND because of that it doesn't require the extra power a water cooled reactor requires).
one last time moron...read the whole link it says

"Because helium is inert and single phase, the helium cooled reactor can operate at much higher temperatures than todays conventional nuclear plants"

It is the fist sentence in second paragraph under "Why it works". You are just a fool who dont like to be wrong
Smedskjaer

Tˇrshavn, Faroe Islands

#34 Mar 29, 2011
You're both Morons. I was supporting Tony, but you both lack the education in the physical sciences to understand the difference between heat capacity and temperature and energy density and I suspect at least one of you will reject the physical laws involved if I tried to explain it.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#35 Mar 29, 2011
Smedskjaer wrote:
Learn your physics. Helium has a much higher heat capacity than steam. The reactor operates at a higher temperature because the helium requires far more energy per degree increase in temperature. The helium operates at a lower temperature, which is exactly what the website said.
No, you're right and I'm wrong. The reactor does operate at a higher temperature, but it begins to cool as soon as it's shut down (unlike water cooled fuel/water moderated).

I was referring to the core temperature (the temperature of the fuel), not the coolant temperature.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#36 Mar 29, 2011
fearandloathing72 wrote:
<quoted text>
one last time moron...read the whole link it says
"Because helium is inert and single phase, the helium cooled reactor can operate at much higher temperatures than todays conventional nuclear plants"
It is the fist sentence in second paragraph under "Why it works". You are just a fool who dont like to be wrong
Why does the fuel begin to cool after a shutdown if the coolant is removed by accident ?
Highball

Roscoe, IL

#38 Mar 29, 2011
New designs are much much much safer

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, NC

#39 Mar 29, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>Why does the fuel begin to cool after a shutdown if the coolant is removed by accident ?
First let me apologize, you admitted you were mistaken, and that means alot.

I am going to post the link again and all I ask is you read the whole thing, there are all the explanations you need in it. If after reading about safety...ect....Then ask me about what part you dont understand and I will do my best to answer.

http://gt-mhr.ga.com/

USA? F-them =)

Niagara-on-the-lake, Canada

#40 Mar 29, 2011
Anybody that supports nuclear still is clearing showing their disrespect for their fellow human being and the environment.
People will do/promote ANYTHING for a buck!!!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#41 Mar 30, 2011
Three mile island 20 some years ago was the one and only nuclear plant crisis this nation has faced.

Chernobyl happened during a deliberate shut down to test the facility's safety systems (oops.)

In the last ten years, more people have been killed in the US by wind power technology than nuclear power.

The Japanese plant survived the earthquake (as it was designed to do, just like the plants in the US), it was damaged by the tsunami. Most of the plants in the US don't have to worry about tsunamis. So ironically, during an earthquake, a nuclear plant is probably the safest place to be.

But let's not let facts get in the way of our argument. Carry on.

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