Marijuana Debate - Oklahoma City, OK

Discuss the national Marijuana debate in Oklahoma City, OK.

Do you support the legalization of Marijuana?

Oklahoma City supports
Support
 
601
Oppose
 
45

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“Jobs for Americans”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#296 Sep 8, 2010
ebv wrote:
Mitchell, I think your analysis of these studies is less than rigorous.Let me respond categorically and I'll also provide references where I can.
Performance Effects: The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, difficultly in thinking and problem-solving, and loss of coordination. Heavy users may have increased difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing and using information. In general, laboratory performance studies indicate that sensory functions are not highly impaired, but perceptual functions are significantly affected. The ability to concentrate and maintain attention are decreased during marijuana use, and impairment of hand-eye coordination is dose-related over a wide range of dosages.Impairment in retention time and tracking, subjective sleepiness, distortion of time and distance, vigilance, and loss of coordination in divided attention tasks have been reported. Note however, that subjects can often “pull themselves together” to concentrate on simple tasks for brief periods of time. Significant performance impairments are usually observed for at least 1-2 hours following marijuana use, and residual effects have been reported up to 24 hours.
Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer suggests that patients receiving treatment with Marinol® should be specifically warned not to drive until it is established that they are able to tolerate the drug and perform such tasks safely. Epidemiology data from road traffic arrests and fatalities indicate that after alcohol, marijuana is the most frequently detected psychoactive substance among driving populations. Marijuana has been shown to impair performance on driving simulator tasks and on open and closed driving courses for up to approximately 3 hours. Decreased car handling performance, increased reaction times, impaired time and distance estimation, inability to maintain headway, lateral travel, subjective sleepiness, motor incoordination, and impaired sustained vigilance have all been reported. Some drivers may actually be able to improve performance for brief periods by overcompensating for self-perceived impairment. The greater the demands placed on the driver, however, the more critical the likely impairment. Marijuana may particularly impair monotonous and prolonged driving. Decision times to evaluate situations and determine appropriate responses increase. Mixing alcohol and marijuana may dramatically produce effects greater than either drug on its own.
See:http://www.nhtsa.gov/peopl e/injury/research/job185drugs/ cannabis.htm
For someone who don't smoke pot you seem to have allot to say about this subject. Why cant you just leave people alone? Live and let live. Pot smokers don't bother or hurt anyone but you seem to take a personal approach attacking pot smokers. Why is that?
RonShewey

United States

#297 Sep 8, 2010
ebv wrote:
<quoted text>
An equally careful search also not revealed a single human fatality in the United States resulting solely from a bullet alone.
Fatalities involving bullets seem to require that the bullet be provided with a powder charge that then must be loaded into some type of device capable of igniting that charge under significant pressure as part of a chain of events that to propel it to its fatal result.
Bullets are inherently safe when factors like propellant, ignition devices, and Intent/Negligence are not present.
Likewise while ingestion of Marijuana may not in and of itself, result in fatality, the effects of marijuana may be a key link in a FATAL chain of events.
For EXAMPLE
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf...
http://www.lvrj.com/news/25610594.html
http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/crime-a... http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_15563329
http://gazettextra.com/news/2010/jan/22/teen-...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...


ebv, DUH, a bullet in its inert state can't inflict harm which may result in death. However, when the bullet is used as intended, loaded into a gun and shot at a humanbeing, it is likely that the harm solely caused by the bullet resulted in the death of the humanbeing.

Marijuana, when used as intended (Smoked, ingested) has never been solely related as the cause of a death.

So, you are correct in the statement that the bullet left in its box can't be related to the death of a gunshot victim.
RonShewey

United States

#298 Sep 8, 2010
Are there curcumstances in which marijuana played a part in a death? YES!

Are there curcumstances in which cell phones, food, coffee... played a part in a death? YES!
Smokey

Broken Arrow, OK

#299 Sep 8, 2010
How do you know?
"Anytime someone has an accident as a result of a drug, marijuana, alcohol etc. It is called a DUI. There is no distinction as to what the influence was."
Look at the reports dumb-ass, 99% of all DUI's is related to alcohol. There is a distinction to what the DUI is. Read your local paper on who has been arrested and what for and you will see that most all DUI's are because of alcohol. What this all boils down to is that fact that the government thinks it is ok for you to space your mind out on man made products. But when you have a natural herb that grows in the ground by it self and has been proven to help people that are sick, NOPE ILLEGAL. That marijuana plant has been here longer than alcohol, longer than meth or any other hard drug that is made. For those of you that say that it is a gateway...Your full of shit...I smoke, have for many years. I go to college, I have a 4.0GPA, I concentrate better, I focus more so for those to say that it makes you lazy and that it makes you not able to concentrate, Don't Knock What You Haven't Tried. Weed helps in many areas. You CANNOT put everyone that smokes weed in the same boat. It affects everyone differently. Some it helps others it don't. Pot smokers are looked at like we are from another country. It's all about Race and if Pot was a race it would be one of the biggest raciest problems we would have. It's like when someone looks at an African American, just because they are black does not mean that they are like every other black man or woman in America. You have some that are good and some that want to be bad. It's not right to classify Potheads as all the same. I might be a pothead but I guarantee that I am a lot smarter than most of you that don't smoke and I would love to have a chance to prove that. The Potheads know what I am talking about. So just legalize it, tax it, and sell it and let's bring this country out of debt. Just think the economy would rise because if Pot was legal then grocery stores and convenient stores would make a lot more money.(MUNCHIES LMAO)
Joe

Montgomery, AL

#300 Sep 8, 2010
Smokey wrote:
How do you know?
"Anytime someone has an accident as a result of a drug, marijuana, alcohol etc. It is called a DUI. There is no distinction as to what the influence was."
Look at the reports dumb-ass, 99% of all DUI's is related to alcohol. There is a distinction to what the DUI is. Read your local paper on who has been arrested and what for and you will see that most all DUI's are because of alcohol. What this all boils down to is that fact that the government thinks it is ok for you to space your mind out on man made products. But when you have a natural herb that grows in the ground by it self and has been proven to help people that are sick, NOPE ILLEGAL. That marijuana plant has been here longer than alcohol, longer than meth or any other hard drug that is made. For those of you that say that it is a gateway...Your full of shit...I smoke, have for many years. I go to college, I have a 4.0GPA, I concentrate better, I focus more so for those to say that it makes you lazy and that it makes you not able to concentrate, Don't Knock What You Haven't Tried. Weed helps in many areas. You CANNOT put everyone that smokes weed in the same boat. It affects everyone differently. Some it helps others it don't. Pot smokers are looked at like we are from another country. It's all about Race and if Pot was a race it would be one of the biggest raciest problems we would have. It's like when someone looks at an African American, just because they are black does not mean that they are like every other black man or woman in America. You have some that are good and some that want to be bad. It's not right to classify Potheads as all the same. I might be a pothead but I guarantee that I am a lot smarter than most of you that don't smoke and I would love to have a chance to prove that. The Potheads know what I am talking about. So just legalize it, tax it, and sell it and let's bring this country out of debt. Just think the economy would rise because if Pot was legal then grocery stores and convenient stores would make a lot more money.(MUNCHIES LMAO)
The majority of DUI's are alcohol related and that is what gets all the media hype. Other drugs used in conjunction with alcohol are not mentioned unless large quantities are involved.

It apparently does affect everyone differently and by reading these post the people committing crimes (illegal possession)it helps their mentality and health.

Heroin is good for the heroin addict too it makes them fell better and cope with life.

LSD is good for the LSD user it helps them relax.

Hydrocodone is good for the user it helps them also. The list can go on for just about any drug you want to help you.

The fact is these are all illegal just like marijuana so if you are using it you are a criminal that doesn't respect our laws. That hinders your credibility.
Mike Meno

Oklahoma City, OK

#301 Sep 8, 2010
Inhaled marijuana can provide relief to patients suffering from chronic nerve pain, and can also help them sleep, according to a Canadian study published last week in the Journal of the Canadian Medical Association.

Researchers at McGill University in Montreal gave different types of marijuana to adult volunteers suffering from intractable pain that hadn’t responded to other medications. As described by the New York Times:

Each volunteer was given a titanium pipe to take home along with quarter-teaspoon capsules of cannabis that they were instructed to open, tip in to the bowl of the pipe, light and then inhale, holding the smoke in their lungs for 10 seconds before exhaling.

The cannabis with the highest concentration of THC, 9.4 percent, appeared to deliver a modest reduction in pain: 0.7 point on an 11-point scale, compared with the placebo. There were no significant differences with the lesser concentrations.

According to the findings published in JCMA, patients who used marijuana experienced “significantly reduced average pain scores” and were also able to sleep better and had less anxiety compared with patients who were given placebo.

“Our results support the claim that smoked cannabis reduces pain, improves mood, and helps sleep,” researchers concluded.

Opponents of medical marijuana often claim that medicine cannot be smoked. And while, of course, smoking is not the only (or preferred) method of delivery for medical marijuana patients, this study once again confirms not only that whole-plant marijuana has medical efficacy, but specifically that smoked marijuana does as well.
Really

Troy, NY

#302 Sep 8, 2010
ebv wrote:
The second gateway theory appears to be confirmed by the study in that once ones social and behavioral resistance to illegal drug use is broken down by an argument that pot isn't that dangerous it then becomes easier to transition from marijuana to other drugs by the faulty reasoning that since marijuana "may not be so bad" maybe other drugs aren't so bad either.
The same can be said for alcohol which is legal and underage drinking which is not. Alcohol is not so bad at age 15, maybe popping pills isn't that bad either. Pills are much easier to come by than marijuana.

The government was not set-up to be a social baby-sitting program.
Once again, the debate is not about whether marijuana is legal or not. Although that seems to be your biggest hang-up. The debate is about why it is illegal and what do we have to do to change that.
Irresponsible people wil be that way with whatever their choices may be. The only thing that makes someone do something, is that particular someone. Poor choices and poor behaviour stem from education and upbringing. Whether drugs or alcohol are involved or not, irresponsible people will still do irresponsible things.
Movin weight

Norman, OK

#303 Sep 9, 2010
Don't legalize! I make to much money sellin it. Don't you like all the drug traffic in your neighborhoods? It will never stop! Thanks for supporting my income, ebv. I don't have to work...The work comes to me!
Movin weight

Norman, OK

#304 Sep 9, 2010
"one nation, under God, real dealers gettin money from the f*ckin start!"
Movin weight

Norman, OK

#305 Sep 9, 2010
All I do is win, win no matter what, got money on my mind, I can't ever get enough...and every time I step up in the building everybodies hands go UPPPPPPPPPP.....And they stay there, And they stay there!! lol

Legalize!
RonShewey

United States

#307 Sep 9, 2010
Lost Taxes and Other Costs of Marijuana Laws - 10 -
2. Marijuana Usage
Since 1990 a reported 20.5 million people have used marijuana in an average year. From 1990 to 2005 annual usage was at its greatest reported level in 2002 at 25.9 million and its lowest level in 17.4 million in 1992.(See Table 1.)
The National Survey on Drug Use and Health and its predecessor, the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, are among the most professional, sophisticated, and reliable population surveys conducted. Nonetheless, for both practical and methodological reasons they do not provide a complete accounting of drug use in the United States. For example in 2002 the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) revised its data collection procedures and increased their estimate of annual marijuana users from 21.1 million (as reported in the 2001 survey results) to 25.7 million.9 NSDUH is a very extensive survey, and in 2002 respondents were paid to complete the entire survey. While this improved data collection, it also calls attention to incomplete data collection in prior years. At best, NSDUH provides data on the minimum number of drug users in the country.
A report by ONDCP on drug consumption in the United States includes this explanation why surveys likely underreport drug use:
"These estimates may be low. Users are likely to under report socially disapproved behaviors, even when those behaviors are legal. They would seem to have even more incentive to under report illegal behaviors. Given under reporting rates for tobacco and alcohol use, it might be reasonable to inflate marijuana estimates by about one-third."10
A recent study issued by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) provides additional data on this trend. Comparing selfreporting of marijuana use within the past month with urine testing of the same subjects
9 Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Office of Applied Studies,
Department of Health and Human Services. 2001 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse. See Table
H1. http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/nhs... 2002 National Survey on
Drug Use and Health. See Table 1.31A
http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/nhs...
10 Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) "What America's Users Spend on Illegal Drugs, 1988
- 2000" December, 2001. NCJ 192334. Washington, DC: Office of National Drug Control Policy. Pg 27.
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publicati... The following
footnote is provided in the ONDCP report to substantiate this conclusion:
"Researchers disagree about trends in reporting practices, but they agree that self-reported tobacco use is
only about three-quarters as large as reports based on foreign imports and tobacco sales resulting in state
and federal excise taxes. K.E. Warner,'A Possible Increases in the Under reporting of Cigarette
Consumption,' Journal of the American Statistical Association, 73 (1978):314-317. E.J. Hatziadreu, J.P.
Pierce, M.C. Fiore, et. Al.,'The Reliability of Self-Reported Cigarette Consumption in the United States,'
American Journal of Public Health, 79,(1989): 1020-1023."

ebv

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#308 Sep 9, 2010
"Pot smokers don't bother or hurt anyone." Marijuana does seem to have a calming effect...

Following several arrests for possession and cultivation of marijuana, on March 4, 2010 John Patrick Bedell, a staunch marijuana legalization proponent, who apparently used marijuana to self-medicate his bi-polar disorder, calmly presented himself at a Pentagon Checkpoint and calmly pulled out two pistols and calmly shot two officers. Bedell was such a fan of marijuana, he actually proposed a pot based economic system for the United States.

Could marijuana have sufficiently distorted his reality to make him believe that attacking the Pentagon with a couple handguns could be successful or could it have simply calmed him sufficiently to lower his natural inhibition to self-destructive violent behavior?

If legalizing marijuana ONLY meant that a few responsible adults would occasionally enjoy marijuana in the privacy of their own homes once in awhile, it wouldn't be that big a deal.

But that is not reality. The reality is that most of the people currently imprisoned in the United States Identify themselves as regular marijuana users regardless of whether or not their convictions are directly involved with marijuana use. That identifies an association with marijuana use and criminal behavior. Marijuana HAS NOT been excluded as a causative factor in their crimes. Tax dollars are expended to keep them incarcerated. There is no likelihood that legalizing marijuana will result in a significant reduction in felons who regularly use marijuana and in fact may increase use in that demographic. In Montana parolees using "medical" marijuana outnumber regular citizens using "medical" marijuana almost 9 to 1.

Early use of marijuana has been tied to the onset of mental illness. According to schizophrenia.com "Researchers in New Zealand found that those who used cannabis by the age of 15 were more than three times (300%) more likely to develop illnesses such as schizophrenia. Other research has backed this up, showing that cannabis use increases the risk of psychosis by up to 700% for heavy users, and that the risk increases in proportion to the amount of cannabis used (smoked or consumed). Additionally, the younger a person smokes/uses cannabis, the higher the risk for schizophrenia, and the worse the schizophrenia is when the person does develop it."

Saying that marijuana doesn't cause traffic deaths is like saying alcohol doesn't cause traffic deaths. Both are stupid statements. Despite the silly semantical argument that because you can't overdose on marijuana, it must be safe, the more THC you have in your system, the more your perception of reality becomes distorted. Around automobiles, firearms, and heavy machinery, distorted reality can get you OR SOME INNOCENT BYSTANDER killed. But a marijuana leaf left on it's plant, probably won't result in a fatality. However if a car is the gun, smoked marijuana can and has served as the "bullet" that ultimately resulted in death. How could that affect me? Well I would say that if me or a member of my family happens to be in the other car,I'm affected.

Marijuana legalization proponents like to claim that marijuana isn't addictive, but in 2007 over a quarter of a million people in the United States sought treatment for marijuana addiction. Considering most people who are addicted to anything NEVER seek treatment, a quarter of a million people is probably just the tip of the iceberg for marijuana addiction. There are taxpayer costs associated with the majority of addiction treatment programs.

Legal-American, I don't molest children either, are you proposing we just take a live and let live approach to their behavior as well. Most will defend their behavior with the same "We don't bother or hurt anyone" crap.

In reality, marijuana smokers just refuse to acknowledge that things they do to bother or hurt people are linked to their drug use.

I don't have to "go away" just because you want me to.
RonShewey

United States

#309 Sep 9, 2010
Lost Taxes and Other Costs of Marijuana Laws - 4 –
Introduction
The social and economic costs of drug abuse are often used to justify contemporary policies which treat marijuana use, cultivation, and sale as criminal offenses in most of the United States. These costs are frequently an excuse to refuse to consider whether alternative policies might be more effective. For example, it is argued that marijuana's
legalization cannot be considered because legalization would result in a substantial increase in its use and would produce unacceptable increases in the social and economic costs of drug abuse. This report challenges the premise of such an argument by looking at both the costs and results of current policies.
Certainly, there is widespread consensus that easy access to marijuana can be harmful to adolescents and people afflicted with mental illness such as schizophrenia. However, it is equally obvious that current laws making marijuana possession illegal have failed to protect these vulnerable groups.
After funding decades of scientific research, the United States Government has failed to make a convincing case that marijuana is more harmful to individual health than alcohol or tobacco. An examination of the scientific record is beyond the scope of this report, however it is relatively easy to support the assertion that the government has failed to convince many scientific and other experts, let alone millions of marijuana users, that the drug is more dangerous than alcohol. Consider the following offhand remarks reported by the national media during 2007.
A June 14, 2007 report by ABC News on marijuana cultivation features comments on whether marijuana is a gateway drug by Columbia University neuroscientist Dr. Carl Hart:
"I don't know of any evidence to support the statement that marijuana is the biggest cause of addiction,'' Dr. Hart told ABC News, who also challenged Walters' claim that 60 percent of drug treatment goes to marijuana users. "About ten percent of the folks who ever try marijuana will become addicted or dependent, whereas about 15 to 20 percent of those individuals who [try] cocaine will become addicted,'' he said, citing DEA statistics he's studied.
A quarter of the people who try heroin become addicted, Hart said, and a full third of those who try tobacco become addicted.
"Is marijuana a gateway drug?" Hart asked rhetorically. "It's a difficult question because I think people focus on,'you try marijuana you're going to go on to other drugs,' when the vast majority of the folks who [use]
marijuana do not go on to other drugs. But certainly, those individuals who've tried cocaine and they have tried heroin, most of them have used marijuana. And most of them have used alcohol underage, and most of them have smoked tobacco as well. So if you think about 'gateway' in that Lost Taxes and Other Costs of Marijuana Laws - 5 - sense, certainly you can say it's a gateway. But what is the meaning of gateway when you put it together like that?"1 A June 25, 2007 article in Newsweek regarding parent-sanctioned alcohol use by teens reported the following comment:
"Aaron White of Duke University Medical Center, who studies adolescent alcohol use ... says parents should think twice about offering alcohol to teens because their brains are still developing and are more susceptible to
damage than adult brains.'If you're going to do that, I suggest you teach them to roll joints, too,' he says,'because the science is clear that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana.'"2
The Washington Post provided a profile of Dr. Drew Pinsky and his appearance before a group of conservative Congressional Staff members at a presentation sponsored by the Independent Women's Forum advertised as a "Campus Sex and Dating Conference" hosted by House Minority Leader John Boehner.
RonShewey

United States

#311 Sep 9, 2010
According to the Washington Post:
"The conservative National Review several years ago described Pinsky, host of the radio show 'Loveline,' as a 'hip cultural warrior' who delivers family values in a stealthy package... Turning to drug use, Pinsky asserted that, as a matter of health, marijuana 'is certainly no worse than alcohol and cigarettes and maybe better.'"3
Just as there is a lack of consensus that marijuana is more harmful than alcohol or tobacco, and thus requires greater legal suppression and criminal penalties rather than a regulatory and more public-health oriented public policy approach, there is also a lack of consensus and data that current policies are either successful at restricting access to marijuana, cost-effective, or both. The government publishes considerable data on marijuana, including its supply, use, availability, and price. Marginal changes in these figures are often spun by Administration officials as proof their policies are successful. Indeed, over the long-term, these data are reasonable indicators with which to evaluate the effectiveness of public policy.
But this data has two specific functions within the scope of this report. First, over the long term this data demonstrates the boundary of what the government asserts is acceptable performance for their marijuana-related policies. Despite the rhetoric and hyperbole that accompanies their annual strategies and budgets, consistent data suggests that marijuana use and supply have not significantly diminished over the long-term and are unlikely to diminish in the future. Second, these data provide us with additional boundaries within which to estimate the cost of this approach to marijuana laws.
1 Avila, Jim and The ABC News Law & Justice Unit. Marijuana McMansions. ABC News. June 14, 2007. http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/WNT/story...
2 Kantrowitz, Barbara and Anne Underwood. The Teen Drinking Dilemma. Newsweek. June 25, 2007.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19263094/site/new...
3 Milbank, Dana. Sex and the Conservative. The Washington Post. Tuesday, July 17, 2007; A02
RonShewey

United States

#312 Sep 9, 2010
Lost Taxes and Other Costs of Marijuana Laws - 8 –

1. The Federal Government's Report on the Economic Costs of Drug Abuse as It Concerns Marijuana Use.

The Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) periodically updates and publishes a comprehensive report on "The Economic Costs of Drug Abuse." The most recent version is based on the period of 1992 to 20024. Few of the costs detailed in this report concern marijuana use. The total annual cost of drug abuse presented in the report is an impressive $180.8 billion. These costs are divided into three categories – productivity, health, and other costs.

Over two-thirds (71.3%) of the costs of drug abuse are attributed to lost productivity, expressed in calculations of lost economic activity due to premature death, drug-abuse related illness, institutionalization, the productivity loss of victims of crime, incarceration and crime careers. Even though marijuana is the most popular illegal drug in the United States, these factors are disproportionably associated with chronic heroin and cocaine addiction.

Furthermore $39 billion in lost productivity is attributed by the ONDCP report to incarceration for all drug-related offenses (regardless of the drug). This is not a cost of drug abuse but, rather, the costs of current policies.

When discussing crime careers, the ONDCP study explains that "Studies of addicts of expensive drugs such as heroin and cocaine entering treatment consistently find that on the order of a third of them rely on illegal activities, such as drug dealing and manufacture, property crime and commercial sex, to buy drugs and make a living."5

Similarly, the figures concerning premature death are derived from cases involving diseases such as TB, hepatitis B and C and HIV/AIDS, diseases associated with chronic dependency on heroin and cocaine and other factors not commonly associated with marijuana use.

The health care costs associated with drug abuse represent a much smaller share of the economic and social costs of drug abuse,$15.8 billion or 8.7%. These costs include nearly $6 billion for community based treatment services,$3.7 billion for HIV/AIDS related services,$1.4 billion for hospital and ambulatory care services, and $1.2 billion
for federal prevention services. Marijuana use does account for portions of the treatment and prevention expenditures, however it should be noted that in 2005, for example, 56.7% of treatment referrals for marijuana were generated by the criminal justice system.6 Many of the economic costs of marijuana use are actually generated by contemporary marijuana policies.

The cost of goods and services lost to crime is the only category of the economic costs of drug abuse that is substantially related to marijuana use, and here primarily through the costs of enforcing the nation's marijuana laws. Criminal Justice Systems and Other

4 Office of National Drug Control Policy (2004).
The Economic Costs of Drug Abuse in the United States, 1992-2002. Washington, DC:
Executive Office of the President. http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publicati...
5 ONDCP (2004) pg III-1.
6 Treatment Episodes Data Set, 2005. Substance and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMSHA).
RonShewey

United States

#313 Sep 9, 2010
Lost Taxes and Other Costs of Marijuana Laws - 9 –

Public Costs are estimated by the ONDCP report to be $36.4 billion, including $14.2 billion for state and local corrections facilities,$9.8 billion for law enforcement expenses, and $6.2 billion for federal supply reduction activities. These expenses are calculated on a simple percentage basis, that is, the percentage share of drug related arrests also represents the percentage share of overall justice system expenses. Marijuana arrests accounted for 45% of all drug arrests in 20027, for example, and consequently account for $16.4 billion in law enforcement costs.
When addressing costs associated with incarceration, law enforcement, and supply reduction it is important to note that these are costs associated with the implementation of current public policies that are brought about by the existing laws criminalizing marijuana use. These are not effects of marijuana use. These are the costs and effects of
marijuana laws. These are measures of policy output AND NOT indications of policy effectiveness or impact. This is an elementary aspect of policy analysis. For example, a recent university textbook in public administration explains that:

"[F]rom the perspective of policy analysis, it is crucial not to confuse policy outputs with policy outcomes. The outputs do not tell us much about the performance or the achievement of a stated objective ... only a naďve political observer would assume that a governmental purpose is achieved because a statute is enacted, an administrative agency is empowered, or funds are spent. Too much has been learned about the limits of government to assume that the output necessarily has the intended outcome."8

The impact of contemporary marijuana policy in the United States can be examined by looking at the reports on marijuana's supply, availability, price, and usage over the last twenty years as well as the economic and social costs associated with these impacts. This long term perspective is necessary to offset the tendency of policy officials such as the Director of ONDCP to focus on marginal changes in these indicators and present them to the public as evidence of successful policies, particularly when it comes to the subject of marijuana control.

7 Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in the United States, 2002.
8 Rosenbloom, David H. and Robert S. Kravchuk. Public Administration, Sixth Edition. Boston, MA:
McGraw Hill. 2005. pg 353.

ebv

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#315 Sep 9, 2010
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether drugs or alcohol are involved or not, irresponsible people will still do irresponsible things.
I don't care to listen to them use "Marijuana is Legal" as their B.S. excuse for irresponsible behavior.

ebv

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#316 Sep 9, 2010
LOST TAXES???

I'll make you a deal Ron. If you can persuade all of the Oklahoma Pot smokers that have posted on this thread to pay all of the Oklahoma Marijuana taxes on the marijuana they have possessed since Oklahoma instituted a tax on marijuana and provide proof of doing so, I will not only wear a NORML T-shirt or polo shirt every weekend for a full year excepting weddings and funerals, I will also, if you can get it on the ballot in an Oklahoma election anytime in the next five years vote in favor of legalization.

If you guys haven't been paying them, why should anyone believe you will pay them in the future?

I'm betting I'll ever have to tell you my shirt size.
RonShewey

United States

#317 Sep 9, 2010
ebv, Sales Taxes are paid on the retail end, at the time of purchase, collected and paid by the retailer. Street dealers, as with bootleggers durring Alcohol Prohibition, don't/didn't bother to get the Tax Stamp, nor do/did they add the % for sales tax purposes.

When Marijuana is manufactured and distributed like Alcohol and Tobacco are, taxes will be collected and payed. Untill that day it'll be black-market business as usual.
Lava

Greenville, SC

#318 Sep 9, 2010
ebv; you can die by drinking a teaspoon of water, your claim on marijuana related automotive deaths does not add up but as marijuana affects everyone differently it should be treated like any other drug. Humans were not made perfect you know. The shooting of the two officers does not make your point valid. This guy was bipolar and had guns everywhere; he was doing something else besides just smoking cannabis and getting pissed. If he was recently convicted and charge of marijuana, was he on probation? I bet; I bet he wasn't tested for cannabis either... people just make assumptions. He was probably Pro marijuana because it helped him with his bipolar; when they took it away he went crazy like any severe bipolar case would do.

Your NZ report watched these kids from age 13 and up (how many years did they "test" these kids?) and 300% of them got schizophrenia? Yeah right, this report isn't valid until I see some solid evidence.

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