Gun Laws Debate - Shaker Heights, OH

Discuss the national Gun Laws debate in Shaker Heights, OH.

Does the US need to reform its gun laws?

Shaker Heights thinks US gun laws are fine.
Not at all
 
3
Yes
 
0
Undecided
 
0

Vote now in Shaker Heights:

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mayor

Beachwood, OH

#1 Jan 17, 2013
unless they are less restrictive.
On The Fence

Beachwood, OH

#2 Jan 17, 2013
What really needs to be controlled are the idiots and mental cases that are holding the guns when they enter a movie theater or a school. If you have guns in the house and you have someone living there that's a nut case, get a safe and put the guns in it or get rid of your guns! Then get psycho help for your relative.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#3 Jan 17, 2013
On The Fence wrote:
What really needs to be controlled are the idiots and mental cases that are holding the guns when they enter a movie theater or a school. If you have guns in the house and you have someone living there that's a nut case, get a safe and put the guns in it or get rid of your guns! Then get psycho help for your relative.
True, but that problem is not being addressed.

There is a word today that is seldom used that was used quite frequently many years ago, and that word is "committed."

Years ago, if a police officer or family member took note of strange behavior in a person, that person appeared in court and was either set free or confined to an institution. That person was committed by our courts.

At that time, Geraldo had his own show which of course was a hit, and he protested that forcing people into these institutions was unconstitutional. It was crime-less imprisonment. In response, these institutions had to unlock their doors and allow these people to run free; they still run free today. Most of them are the homeless we talk so much about.

The ingenious measures suggested now is that we trample on the rights of gun owners while preserving the rights of the mentally challenged. It's what we call a liberal solution to a problem; just make it look good even if it provides no relief.

Smaller guns, smaller clips, more gun laws won't stop the next school shooting. It won't even lessen the damage. What it will do is give government a larger hole to peek into our homes to make sure we are less capable to defend ourselves than we are today.

Criminals don't abide to our laws. That's why they're criminals in the first place.
Tico

Akron, OH

#4 Jan 17, 2013
Stop the cradle to grave entitlements, stop worrying about someone's self esteem, stop the breeding cycle of the savage's and use the electric chair on a daily basis!!! it's cheaper than lethal injection. We could start with the idiot that shot the dog in cleveland.It is time to flush the toilet in this country, Bush and Obama are birds of the same elitist feather's. They both have done far more damage to the country than the average person can understand. When you vote for those who believe in the welfare goody bag you only drive the country deeper and deeper into the abyss. gun control is not the answer, welfare and thug control are the answer's. On a secondary note never support an IDIOT who starts two unfounded wars. Reopen the mental health facilities nationwide.
He s Horace Mann

Beachwood, OH

#5 Feb 1, 2013
The best way to stop 99.9% of gun violence is to ban blacks from having guns. All we see on the news are stories of blacks driving down the streets shooting each other. That's just how their brains operate. Look at all those African nations. That's where all these wars are. That's the mentality they have. Kill! Kill! Kill! And the ones here have the same genes as the ones there. The KILL genes!
Commander on Watch

Beachwood, OH

#6 Feb 1, 2013
He s Horace Mann wrote:
The best way to stop 99.9% of gun violence is to ban blacks from having guns. All we see on the news are stories of blacks driving down the streets shooting each other. That's just how their brains operate. Look at all those African nations. That's where all these wars are. That's the mentality they have. Kill! Kill! Kill! And the ones here have the same genes as the ones there. The KILL genes!
No Horace, the thing to do is give them ALL guns! This way they'll all shoot each other and then we'll have to pay less taxes to pay for their stays in the prison system!
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#7 Mar 7, 2013
The U.S. is a joke. Get caught with some Ex pills and you get more time than you do if you are caught with an illegal firearm(if you are a felon). The laws are in place to keep the prison industry going.

Simply enforcing current gun laws in a reasonable manner would go a long way in stopping gun crime. Look at how well NYC is doing.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#8 Mar 7, 2013
mapleman wrote:
The U.S. is a joke. Get caught with some Ex pills and you get more time than you do if you are caught with an illegal firearm(if you are a felon). The laws are in place to keep the prison industry going.
Simply enforcing current gun laws in a reasonable manner would go a long way in stopping gun crime. Look at how well NYC is doing.
That's the reason? I thought the reason was the police stop any suspicious person they desire and search them. They found many guns that way. Most anywhere else, you have to be doing something wrong before a cop can search you, but it's written in NYC law and so far, nobody has challenged it.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#9 Mar 7, 2013
NYC has some of the most draconian guns laws in the country. Even permit holders from other states are put in prison for three years.

The "stop and frisk" policy you refer to is just one in a number of policies that work. They also target specific areas. Once crime is reduced, they move on. If levels increase, they come back again.

So imagine if they targeted Maple Heights, used "stop and frisk", and had draconian gun laws. Crime would drop like a rock. They would then move on to the next area. Once crime has been lowered, it's easy for a normal police presence to keep things under control. That is the secret to NYC's success. It isn't "stop and frisk" itself, but how they utilize it without other tactics.

Cleveland police have done it before. They simply call an area a "high drug area" and stop and frisk people. They pull over cars just for driving through. It's amazing how quick they can clean up a neighborhood when they want to do so instead of sitting around writing tickets for revenue. lol
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#10 Mar 7, 2013
Then why is Cleveland such a mess if this works so well?

There are issues at hand with such laws such as Forth Amendment violations, racial profiling and police harassment. I still don't know how NYC got around all that. But as you say, it does work.

I disagree with your reason why it works. I think the reason it works is because criminals now fear being arrested for carrying a firearm and not doing anything to warrant a search. Before the law, you could approach a police officer armed, call him a pig, and there was nothing he could do about it. Now if you look a little shady, they can stop you in the street and insist you comply with their demands.

Deterrents work. The greater the deterrent, the better it works. It's one of the reasons I advocate CCW's here in Ohio and elsewhere in the country.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#11 Mar 7, 2013
As I said, it works when they want it to work. But if the streets are safe, who is the first to go? The police. The police will put themselves out of work. Why not just pull people over and generate revenue? lol

I don't think you and I have any disagreements. I believe "stop and frisk" is a deterrent. I also believes it catches those dumb enough to not let it deter them. When combined with other tactics, it is proven to work. Look at NYC when compared to Chicago. Look how safe NYC is compared to Cleveland. 400 something murders to 100. Cleveland only has 300,000 to 400,000 people. NYC has 8 million.

I believe the way to safeguard stop and frisk is to have mandatory audio recordings of all stops. Innocents should be protected from harassment. If someone invokes his or her rights, that person needs to be respected. Audio recordings could be done via cellular technology and uploaded to databases. If we are going to sh!t on the Fourth Amendment and racial profile, safeguards must be in place. It keeps everyone involved honest. Criminals can't make false claims; police can't abuse power.

There is an Atlanta Mall cop who records everything on his dime. I'm sure police departments that engage in stop and frisk, profiling, and other tactics could cover the costs of recording. As we know, CPD has been fighting placing cameras in their cars for years.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#12 Mar 8, 2013
I never heard of Cleveland Police doing that. Then again, I don't follow Cleveland Police, but I never miss a day of reading the news.

Chicago is a different jungle. The state has been fighting against CCW laws for years. Only recently has the courts ordered Illinois to have a CCW program.

I think it will be interesting what happens to the crime statistics in the next five years in Chicago. It takes a while to get these classes set up, get people to apply for a gun license, and unlike NYC, make the laws reasonable for responsible citizens. If they do enough just to keep the courts happy, and the police and local courts have no mercy for CCW holders, then it probably won't do much good.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#13 Mar 8, 2013
The tactics I mentioned aren't really talked about outside of the inner-city, but they are used. All it takes is labeling an area a "high drug" area and it's screw Fourth Amendment time.

I doubt big cities like Chicago and NYC will change CCW laws anytime soon. I also think Chicago is run by idiots. Why they haven't cloned the practices of NYC law enforcement is beyond me. The city must be run by people who have stock in private prisons(it isn't out of the realm of possibility).

In NYC, they have reduced the crime and the number of criminals going into the system. As we said, the deterrent part of stop and frisk makes people less likely to break the law in the first place.

I don't know what the excuse is in Chicago. I never overlook corrupt leaders. Chicago has a history of corruption that other cities can't touch.

If the city of Cleveland were to use the tactics that NYC uses, I bet there wouldn't be more than 25 murders. Inner ring suburbs would have to employ the same tactics. It would deter a lot of crime. A lot of murders are spur of the moment things. People just happen to have the gun on them. With the way NYC does it, people are less likely to be armed.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#14 Mar 8, 2013
Cleveland had been run by an all Democrat government for many years now. One of the first issues Action Jackson took was to have police trained so that a suspect is less likely to attack police officers which would allow them the ability to defend themselves. This after a black suspect was cornered by police cars and tried to use his vehicle to ram officers to get away. They shot him dead.

Cleveland even tried to hold gun manufacturers liable for all the shootings in the city. Right. I'm sure the criminals were scared about that one. Of course, it was struck down.

Now we have a Councilman who was recently arrested for DUI. His third one in ten years, and they still won't get rid of the clown.

So do you think that Cleveland would dare take a stance such as stop and frisk with the voting group they have today? Anybody voting for such a measure would be out by next election regardless of the outcome.

It's a shame, but politicians give people what they want. Nobody wants to sacrifice for a better environment. Instead, they will march down streets, cry the blues on news cameras, and say that somebody has to do something. But when somebody does, it's considered a violation of rights.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#15 Mar 8, 2013
You have to be talking about Zack Reed. He got arrested again? If so, seriously?

At the end of the day, it all comes down to money. What makes money? What keeps careers going? Politicians cater to what fills their pockets. Both republican and democrats tend to worry about careers and money.

NYC is the most liberal city on the planet. They took the risk. If we follow the money, we probably could find out why. When the people who were running things took the risk, where was their money coming from? Republican or democrat, who backed them? Where were their investments? Who were their friends?

It's just like the Garfield mayor who was in bed with the building contractors. Follow the details. The media doesn't cover things like that. Isn't the former Garfield mayor enjoying a nice life in a sunny state? I wonder how many people from NYC are doing the same? Likewise, I wonder how many people from Cleveland or Chicago are doing the same.

It's more about the green than party affiliations.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#16 Mar 9, 2013
Everybody wants to keep a job. But I think if you look at the then most miserable cities in the US, you will find Democrat leadership. Democrats tend to pander to the populous more than Republicans. It's why the Republicans lost some congressional seats last election. They took a stance at putting the brakes on spending while DumBama ran around telling people what Republicans want to take away from you. It works.

People don't care about the country all that much because they've never experienced bad times before--at least not bad times like a depression or something like that. 17 trillion in debt? No problem, the government will never let me starve. They'll find a way. They always do.

It reminds me of a cartoon I seen many years ago. It was a one-fram cartoon about two guys in jail. The guy in the cot was reading the newspaper out loud. He said laughingly "The cost of living just went up again. Tsk,tsk."

The reason I remember that cartoon from many years ago is because it mocked how people who are not affected don't care. So Democrats run around telling people "I'll give you this and I'll give you that" and people vote them in. They are too ignorant to understand that they are voting in the path to the financial destruction of our country.

For most Americans, if they see a burning house with a child inside screaming for help, they would risk their lives to save that child even if it meant their own demise. Yes, they won't give up their Obama phone or food stamps to help prevent their children from facing the disaster we are headed towards. And if mid-term elections give Democrats full power once again, we will get there much, much faster.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#17 Mar 9, 2013
Listen, both parties aren't doing anything to help the country. The wealth gap has increased incredibly in the last 40 years. Both Republicans and Democrats have contributed to the increase. If people didn't play party politics, Americans would be able to get rid of the filth operating in both parties.

I've noticed how the parties will come together to work for legislation that benefits the rich(see SOPA). I've noticed how they will come together for legislation that takes away civil rights(see Patriot Act). Both parties are trash.

Another problem is both parties rely on bases that want extremes. The democrat base want extreme entitlements. The republican base wants to be dumb enough to take entitlements away instead of revamping programs( mandatory birth control for food stamps instead of cutting the program). Then we have non-issues like gay marriage and abortion, both of which should be the least of our concerns.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18 Mar 9, 2013
Okay, so the wealth gap has increased in the last 40 years. People getting wealthier is a bad thing?????

Let me ask: since more people are getting rich and this wealth gap now exists, don't you think somebody or some people are in charge of this? I mean, it didn't happen on it's own, did it? If so, who are these people? I think you're going to be surprised at the answer.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#19 Mar 9, 2013
I said GAP. Who said anything about MORE people getting rich? The gap between the rich and the rest of the country has increased.

The politicians of the U.S. tend to help the gap increase. End of story. That's why corporations and the wealthy spend billions putting their puppets in place.

Look at the telecom companies in the U.S. The citizens are charged a premium rate for inferior service and low speeds. Other countries offer non-throttled, superior speeds for a fraction of the cost. The telecom industry in the U.S. spends billions on politicians to ensure its dominance. Many more examples exist.

If you examine bills favoring such entities, you will find them sponsored by members of both parties. This is why I say both parties are to blame.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#20 Mar 9, 2013
Okay, fair enough. Who are these companies..... be specific. Because I'm going to look up these companies and take a peek at their profit margin; not by dollar, but by percentage of profit.

You almost answered my question. The people responsible for this gap (as you call it) are not the politicians. It's you. Not just you, but me too. Everybody here and most people in America.

It's called wealth transfer and it's been an issue for Democrats for a long time now.

You see, when you buy that new microsoft program, or a big mac, or a new car, a new cell phone, you transfer your wealth to the most wealthy. Thats how this gap is created.

40 years ago, there wasn't much to buy. A television set, a car, maybe a stereo, but not much else. Today, we have to have everything available to us. The internet, a computer, latest software, three video gams, a cell phone for each member of your household not to mention the service, cable television, DVD's, pay-per-view, printer/fax machine.

40 years ago, people seldom dined out. All meals were prepared at home, so we didn't transfer our food money to the top. Once in a great while, parents would treat the family to McDonalds or Bob's Big Boy. Today, fast food is three times a week or more for many families.

It's not Democrats and it's not Republicans. It's we the people who insist on giving our money to the wealthiest people. In fact, if you watch the news the day after Thanksgiving, people are begging the wealthy to take more of their money. They're camping out in front of stores in sleeping bags and make shift tents. They stay there for hours through the cold night rain or snow.

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