Gay Marriage Debate - Oklahoma City, OK

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Oklahoma City, OK.

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Since: Jul 10

Henderson, NV

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#2635
May 25, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
"i wonder why the BIBLE (not man)"
Really... who do you think wrote the Bible?...... man.... who do you think translated the translated scripts origionaly written by man.... man. So the Bible has that in there... but it is MAN who put it there.
Secondly.. it REALLY does not matter. You see a friend of mine 's holy book said his God is ok with homosexuality and ssm. So whose book do we go by?.... Wait trick question... we go by neither as we are not a theocracy. So you can read your Bible, you can believe the passages you want while ignoring the ones which hit to close to home.... but as far as rights of t he people and the law... your holy book, or anyone elses means squat
If you new what you were talking about your conversation would be worthwhile but I will respond nonetheless. Does not it says the Bible was written by Holy men written by God? I also don't take certain passages to believe. I believe all of the scriptures. It comes down to it really doesn't matter what either of us think, because the creation has no power over its creator. One must be greater than the other. Whether you believe the bible is try or not is strictly up to you, I could care less what you think, you only show your ignorance.

Since: Jul 10

Henderson, NV

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#2636
May 25, 2013
 
Bailey wrote:
<quoted text>
Your missing the whole part about god isn't real.
Don't understand your comment, but I am willing to learn something new if you have the info., what do you have to validate your comment? One can see from the Roman census that there was a Jesus who walked the earth 2,000 years ago, who's parents name was Mary and Josepth who was a carpenter by trade who had a son named Jesus who was put to death at age 33 for claiming to be the king of the Jews and for performing miracles and raising the dead. Those that hated him claimed he did these miracles by the power of the evil one, who's name was known as Satan, the Devil and the prince of darkness. Interestingly enough, though they wanted to, those wanting to kill him could not deny the miracles he performed as thousands were witnesses to the events thus the claim he did these miracles by a evil power. His body vanished from his grave three days after his death all the while there were Roman soldiers posted at his tomb to keep his followers from taking his body and claiming that he rose from the dead..Those facts cannot be denied by anyone but the ignorant as Roman history and there census clearly point this out. One doesn't have to believe he was the son of God however, but to deny that he ever existed shows complete ignorance and lack of education. AS YOU SAID, you are missing the whole point, this is not from the Bible but from recorded history which apparently you know little about. Perhaps you should think before going to your keyboard and mouse and making yourself look foolish and unschooled.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

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#2637
May 25, 2013
 
Reason 32 for keeping marriage one man and one woman, the IRS. Same sex marriage supporters in Obama's IRS unlawfully sent data from the tax returns of their political opponents to allies in the media. Then, they harassed conservative groups, delayed application processing to effectively quash our freedom to speech and association.

If you don't want conservatives doing that to same sex marriage supporters when we win the White House, demand a special prosecutor to put those criminals in prison.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2638
May 25, 2013
 
fciman06 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you new what you were talking about your conversation would be worthwhile but I will respond nonetheless. Does not it says the Bible was written by Holy men written by God? I also don't take certain passages to believe. I believe all of the scriptures. It comes down to it really doesn't matter what either of us think, because the creation has no power over its creator. One must be greater than the other. Whether you believe the bible is try or not is strictly up to you, I could care less what you think, you only show your ignorance.
A) If the bible was "wrtten by God", then by holy men,,,,transcribed who knows how many times with words that were no longer used so the current closest word to what the origional text was is used, thus changeing what evver God meant, then the present day version is of no use...
B) You follow all of the Bible... really.... If you are female or (if male your wife) do you wear jewerlry?.... How about do anything with your hair?... Do you (or your wife) cover your head while in church? All biblical concepts and mandates....yet very few thumpers follow.
C)." It comes down to it really doesn't matter what either of us think"
Of this we can agree... See we as a nation are not a theocracy. We do not turn towards any persons holy book for our laws... there fore what you believe your interpretation of your holy book says, just doesnt matter to the law.
Zane

United States

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#2639
May 25, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
A) If the bible was "wrtten by God", then by holy men,,,,transcribed who knows how many times with words that were no longer used so the current closest word to what the origional text was is used, thus changeing what evver God meant, then the present day version is of no use...
B) You follow all of the Bible... really.... If you are female or (if male your wife) do you wear jewerlry?.... How about do anything with your hair?... Do you (or your wife) cover your head while in church? All biblical concepts and mandates....yet very few thumpers follow.
C)." It comes down to it really doesn't matter what either of us think"
Of this we can agree... See we as a nation are not a theocracy. We do not turn towards any persons holy book for our laws... there fore what you believe your interpretation of your holy book says, just doesnt matter to the law.
God's word the Holy Bible tells you to 'prove all things hold fast to that which is good'. So the Creator in the Bible is telling you to be proactive and search for the truth not to be a blind follower of other people's ideas or beliefs. Lets say for debate sake that the Bible is written by a monk living in a remote village in China. Would you read the Bible with an open receptive mind to see what merits can be found?

I have a challenge for you. Take the 10 Commandments, read each and every one with a open receptive mind. Reflect on what a life would be like if these commandments were adhered to. How would practicing the 10 Commandments affect your personal life and then those of your family and friends? List the reasons pro and con. Is it a net negative or a net positive result? You already know what you get in today's society which almost totally ignores the 10 commandments so you have a lifetime of anecdotal evidence to consider.

I will be interested to see result of your experiment.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2640
May 26, 2013
 
Zane wrote:
<quoted text>
God's word the Holy Bible tells you to 'prove all things hold fast to that which is good'. So the Creator in the Bible is telling you to be proactive and search for the truth not to be a blind follower of other people's ideas or beliefs. Lets say for debate sake that the Bible is written by a monk living in a remote village in China. Would you read the Bible with an open receptive mind to see what merits can be found?
I have a challenge for you. Take the 10 Commandments, read each and every one with a open receptive mind. Reflect on what a life would be like if these commandments were adhered to. How would practicing the 10 Commandments affect your personal life and then those of your family and friends? List the reasons pro and con. Is it a net negative or a net positive result? You already know what you get in today's society which almost totally ignores the 10 commandments so you have a lifetime of anecdotal evidence to consider.
I will be interested to see result of your experiment.
You miss the core point... it does not matter what you believe your interpretation of you holy book says. There are many churches out there that interpret it differently... Fact is we are not a theocracy. So you can use your interpretation to prop up your predjudice as muchj as you want. What you can not do is use it to deny equal treatment to u.s. citizens.
Zane

United States

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#2641
May 26, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
You miss the core point... it does not matter what you believe your interpretation of you holy book says. There are many churches out there that interpret it differently... Fact is we are not a theocracy. So you can use your interpretation to prop up your predjudice as muchj as you want. What you can not do is use it to deny equal treatment to u.s. citizens.
No. You missed the whole point of my post, which was to find merit or lack thereof in the Bible. Simple request and if you truly wish to become evolved in a positive way in your lifetime then the opportunity presented itself. A person with an open receptive mind would have walked through the door of opportunity.

You have a closed agenda driven mind.

The Bible puts the responsibility on the person not a building or groups of building. According to the Bible you will be judged not by your priest, bishop, minister, or what building (church) you attend but by what your choices have been in your life. Can't get a more fair system than that. It beats our Justice System because we can and have made mistakes.

If you don't "prove all things and hold fast to what is good", then you lifetime is doomed to less than what the Bible and it's Creator wanted for your life, your personal achievement. Some people are leaders and innovators and others are followers. Who and what are you following?
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2642
May 26, 2013
 
Zane wrote:
<quoted text>
No. You missed the whole point of my post, which was to find merit or lack thereof in the Bible. Simple request and if you truly wish to become evolved in a positive way in your lifetime then the opportunity presented itself. A person with an open receptive mind would have walked through the door of opportunity.
You have a closed agenda driven mind.
The Bible puts the responsibility on the person not a building or groups of building. According to the Bible you will be judged not by your priest, bishop, minister, or what building (church) you attend but by what your choices have been in your life. Can't get a more fair system than that. It beats our Justice System because we can and have made mistakes.
If you don't "prove all things and hold fast to what is good", then you lifetime is doomed to less than what the Bible and it's Creator wanted for your life, your personal achievement. Some people are leaders and innovators and others are followers. Who and what are you following?
My mind is not closed atall... It is yours that is closed. You are bent on following the Bible, or more to the point what you believe t he Bible says. I am a christian, I believle...however I do not interpret it the same way you do... but either way...IT DOES NOT MATTER. You can stand by your belief . When (notif but when) ssm comes to pass, you will still be able to believe it is against your belief system and yada yada... point is it is y our system, not what we are governed by. major differ3ence
Zane

United States

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#2643
May 26, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
My mind is not closed atall... It is yours that is closed. You are bent on following the Bible, or more to the point what you believe t he Bible says. I am a christian, I believle...however I do not interpret it the same way you do... but either way...IT DOES NOT MATTER. You can stand by your belief . When (notif but when) ssm comes to pass, you will still be able to believe it is against your belief system and yada yada... point is it is y our system, not what we are governed by. major differ3ence
I never said I was a Christian if you remember I said for debate sake lets say the Bible was written by a monk in remote part of China. The whole point and only point I was attempting to make was
the 10 Commandments, which atheist so fear, is nothing more than a guideline towards a more fulfilled happier way of living a life. Is it the only way, of course not, and to imply such a thing is ridiculous.

Since expressing the joy of freedom in the pursuit of a life fulfilled shouldn't negate allowing expressions of religion or non-religion. Years ago when I was in Junior High our school had both Christian and non-Christian students, hence a Christmas Tree/present exchange and a Menorah at the same time or no expression if you chose. The school allowed expression of religious beliefs with NO Negative blowback from any group including the atheist. Now Christians are under assault from every corner of the globe. Christmas Holidays Greetings are no longer acceptable...where is the freedom and tolerance in that? Is our lives enhanced or degraded by being politically left of center?
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2644
May 26, 2013
 
Zane wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said I was a Christian if you remember I said for debate sake lets say the Bible was written by a monk in remote part of China. The whole point and only point I was attempting to make was
the 10 Commandments, which atheist so fear, is nothing more than a guideline towards a more fulfilled happier way of living a life. Is it the only way, of course not, and to imply such a thing is ridiculous.
Since expressing the joy of freedom in the pursuit of a life fulfilled shouldn't negate allowing expressions of religion or non-religion. Years ago when I was in Junior High our school had both Christian and non-Christian students, hence a Christmas Tree/present exchange and a Menorah at the same time or no expression if you chose. The school allowed expression of religious beliefs with NO Negative blowback from any group including the atheist. Now Christians are under assault from every corner of the globe. Christmas Holidays Greetings are no longer acceptable...where is the freedom and tolerance in that? Is our lives enhanced or degraded by being politically left of center?
All of which has absolutly nothing to do with the subject at hand... ssm.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

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#2645
May 26, 2013
 
come on I laugh every time I read your nonsense. You claim you are a Christian yet you go out of your way to attempt and debunk the bible. You are seriously confused.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2646
May 26, 2013
 
antiatheist wrote:
come on I laugh every time I read your nonsense. You claim you are a Christian yet you go out of your way to attempt and debunk the bible. You are seriously confused.
Not at all . I believe in God Jesus the whole 9 yards. What I know for a fact is we are not a theocracy...so what you, me or anyone else may believe their holy book, be it the Bible, Koran, Torah.. says is irrelevant to the subject of ssm. Sorry if my belief system does not match yours.
Jonny

United States

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#2647
May 26, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
All of which has absolutly nothing to do with the subject at hand... ssm.
They shouldn't have SSM those who are lesbian or gay and want civil unions then fine but I believe marriage is for a man and a woman.

A man and a woman who want a traditional marriage and raise a family together in a traditional environment isn't violating anyone. But to include every deviation of traditional marriage by using the reason that people should all have the same rights as married couples to love whomever they choose. Then what keeps those who believe in NAMBLA from being the next 'special' group who campaigns to have 'right's to engage in freedom to love whomever they want to love? What keeps males who are attracted to young girls from becoming the next 'special' group demanding they have the right to engage in sexual relations with girls as young as pre-teen. If we are going to base our society standards to allow freedom to everyone who says they should be free to love whomever they want where are the boundary lines drawn? If we destroy the traditional bonds of marriage between and man and a woman then how far do we go?
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2648
May 27, 2013
 
Jonny wrote:
<quoted text>
They shouldn't have SSM those who are lesbian or gay and want civil unions then fine but I believe marriage is for a man and a woman.
A man and a woman who want a traditional marriage and raise a family together in a traditional environment isn't violating anyone. But to include every deviation of traditional marriage by using the reason that people should all have the same rights as married couples to love whomever they choose. Then what keeps those who believe in NAMBLA from being the next 'special' group who campaigns to have 'right's to engage in freedom to love whomever they want to love? What keeps males who are attracted to young girls from becoming the next 'special' group demanding they have the right to engage in sexual relations with girls as young as pre-teen. If we are going to base our society standards to allow freedom to everyone who says they should be free to love whomever they want where are the boundary lines drawn? If we destroy the traditional bonds of marriage between and man and a woman then how far do we go?
"They shouldn't have SSM those who are lesbian or gay and want civil unions then fine but I believe marriage is for a man and a woman."

IF you believe that a c.u. are ok... then get one. If you arenow married get a quickie divorce and then a c.u.... Maybe t hen you would realize that a c.u. is not the same as marriage. That there are over 1000 things that a legally married couple get or can get that are not offered to someone with a c.u...... IF it is ok for your fellow americans to have less rights than you... why not join them?.....

A man and a woman who want a traditional marriage and raise a family together in a traditional environment isn't violating anyone.

So who said that they were?... what is beign said is that only allowing a m.f to have benefits offered by the government and denying those to a ssc.. goes againstthe 14th...

You go on about nambla and all these other scarecrows... what you a forget is that marriage is a contract. To enter into such a contract one must meet certaincriteria. Such criteria would not be met by children.

SSM is dealing with legal consenting adult american citizens... whom for some reason you feel do not deserve hte same privledges as an citizen that you get.

This is not about destroying marriage... with a 50 percent divorce rate, the heterosexuals have already done that. This is about offering the same rights and privledges to all citizens. Hard concept to grasp for some
Steve

United States

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#2649
May 27, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
"They shouldn't have SSM those who are lesbian or gay and want civil unions then fine but I believe marriage is for a man and a woman."
IF you believe that a c.u. are ok... then get one. If you arenow married get a quickie divorce and then a c.u.... Maybe t hen you would realize that a c.u. is not the same as marriage. That there are over 1000 things that a legally married couple get or can get that are not offered to someone with a c.u...... IF it is ok for your fellow americans to have less rights than you... why not join them?.....

A man and a woman who want a traditional marriage and raise a family together in a traditional environment isn't violating anyone. The farther our country goes from traditional beliefs the farther our society falls.

Just look around you man! Even a blind man could see.

So who said that they were?... what is beign said is that only allowing a m.f to have benefits offered by the government and denying those to a ssc.. goes againstthe 14th...
You go on about nambla and all these other scarecrows... what you a forget is that marriage is a contract. To enter into such a contract one must meet certaincriteria. Such criteria would not be met by children.
SSM is dealing with legal consenting adult american citizens... whom for some reason you feel do not deserve hte same privledges as an citizen that you get.
This is not about destroying marriage... with a 50 percent divorce rate, the heterosexuals have already done that. This is about offering the same rights and privledges to all citizens. Hard concept to grasp for some
Thats a stupid argument. C.U. can be a contract also. They could also have the same contractual benefits as the traditional couple. Don't take away from those who are traditional man, woman and the children that union produced. Allow them to have what was traditional let them celebrate Christmas, Easter and whatever holiday without taking things away from citizens that have been part of this country for hundreds of years.

Same b.s. atheist are doing with people who are religious. If you don't believe in a Creator fine you already think you are the ultimate god so arrogance is a given. Atheist look down on everyone who believes. They think they are superior...just ask them.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2650
May 27, 2013
 
Steve wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats a stupid argument. C.U. can be a contract also. They could also have the same contractual benefits as the traditional couple. Don't take away from those who are traditional man, woman and the children that union produced. Allow them to have what was traditional let them celebrate Christmas, Easter and whatever holiday without taking things away from citizens that have been part of this country for hundreds of years.
Same b.s. atheist are doing with people who are religious. If you don't believe in a Creator fine you already think you are the ultimate god so arrogance is a given. Atheist look down on everyone who believes. They think they are superior...just ask them.
"Thats a stupid argument. C.U. can be a contract also. They could also have the same contractual benefits as the traditional couple.:"

You obviously do not know much about a civil union. Yes like a marriage license it is a binding contract between the two indivduals. But that is where the comparison stops. The c.u. is non transferable from state to state. If you get married in oklahoma, move to tennesee, your marriage moves with you. If you get a c.u. in OK, it may not be seen as valid in TN. If you get married, you are covered by spousal law so you do not have to testify agaisnt your spouse. This does not apply to c.u. These are just a couple of the many many many disparities between a marriage license and a c.u. So again I say.. you like the idea of a c.u., if you are married, get a divorce and then a c.u. See how you like not being equal to others.

"Don't take away from those who are traditional man, woman and the children that union produced.."

A) How is ssm "taking away" from this?... How will (not if but will) ssm change t his...
B)Are you saying that marriage is for child making?... and since ssm will not "naturally" produce a child it is not the same?...

Allow them to have what was traditional let them celebrate Christmas, Easter and whatever holiday without taking things away from citizens that have been part of this country for hundreds of years.

Again, different argument. Has nothing to do with ssm... nice strawman to put out to take notice away from feeble arguements against ssm...but has nothing to do with ssm

"Same b.s. atheist are doing with people who are religious. If you don't believe in a Creator fine you already think you are the ultimate god so arrogance is a given. Atheist look down on everyone who believes. They think they are superior...just ask them"

Where did I state my theological beliefs? Why would you assume I am an Athiest? You do realize there are many churches and denominations within the Christian religion that are pro ssm? Yet for some reason you think that because I realize that this is not now nor has it ever been a theological issue, I am an atheist.

When, not if but when, ssm becomes legal and the same as hsm, nothing will change for you. Nothing will keep your church from teaching about how bad homo. is. Nothing will keep you from believing that ssm is wrong be it from a theological standpoint, or a personal one. What will change is that all american will be able to have the same rights and privileges.... is that a bad thing?
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

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#2651
May 27, 2013
 
you are confused my friend. You are a Christian yet you don't believe the bible. You also don't have to be a theocracy in order to not allow gay marriage.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

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#2652
May 27, 2013
 
ssm, legalized drug use, abortion, etc. all go hand in hand. Its the lack of morality in America. Sadly some "Christians" have been conned into this nonsense and spend more of their time advocating for gay marriage than they do advocating for God. America is at its tipping point.
Zane

United States

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#2653
May 27, 2013
 
antiatheist wrote:
ssm, legalized drug use, abortion, etc. all go hand in hand. Its the lack of morality in America. Sadly some "Christians" have been conned into this nonsense and spend more of their time advocating for gay marriage than they do advocating for God. America is at its tipping point.
Very well said.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

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#2654
May 29, 2013
 
Steve wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats a stupid argument. C.U. can be a contract also. They could also have the same contractual benefits as the traditional couple. Don't take away from those who are traditional man, woman and the children that union produced. Allow them to have what was traditional let them celebrate Christmas, Easter and whatever holiday without taking things away from citizens that have been part of this country for hundreds of years.
Same b.s. atheist are doing with people who are religious. If you don't believe in a Creator fine you already think you are the ultimate god so arrogance is a given. Atheist look down on everyone who believes. They think they are superior...just ask them.
allowing SSM wouldn't be taking anything away from "traditional" marriage - yours included if you're married.

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