Gay Marriage Debate - Greenville, SC

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Greenville, SC.

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Anderson, SC

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#173
Oct 10, 2012
 
To each their own.. let love!!
Jacqueline 861

United States

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#175
Oct 14, 2012
 
Love come in all form. An God made each am every one on this earth. SO WHY WOULD HE NOT LOVE YOU IF HE CREATED YOU SO WHEN YOU SPEAK THAT GOD DID CREATED ADAM AND ADAM THEN YOU TELL ME WHO CREATED ADAM AND ADAM.

Since: Sep 12

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#176
Oct 15, 2012
 
I'll briefly touch on the marriage license issue.

I'm not sure, butI think, to you, the reason marriage is 'civil' and can't exist without a government is simply because, to you, a marriage is not a marriage unless the government recognizes it and gives a married couple legal considerations.

So, two questions.
1.) a. How long have marriage licenses been in existence? b.Did marriage exist before that.
2.)How do you get married. I mean, one moment you're single and the next you're not. What did you do to 'get married.' The license doesn't marry you, it simply permits you to marry legally and to be recognized as a married couple...but what ACTION causes you to get married.

Once we're done with these questions, I'll go back to the issue of homosexuality, lifestyle, etc.

In response to your accusations:

Judging by this comment you make, "to point out your hypocresy", I think it is safe to assume that you did not see my self-correcting comment - post number 158. I've copy/pasted it here for you. In short, I'm not being hypocritical.

#158: "Sorry, I'm afraid my third paragraph disagrees with itself. I'm pretty tired today, obviously.:) while I do delineate some differences overall between sexual sin and sexual perversion, I did not mean to say that someone in either could watch my kids. It reads that I might let an adulteress/er watch my children, but not a homosexual. I would not let either watch my children, for the variety of reasons I explain later."

My original post,#157, in paragraph three I stated that I might let someone like that watch my child, but at the end I said "However, a single unconfessed and unrepentant sin can negatively affect every aspect of a person over time...so I would not let this person babysit my child if I was aware of it." So, it disagreed with itself...and again, I was pretty tired...my mistake.

Also, about your accusation of stereotyping. I was not, nor am I, excusing or condoning prejudice. I am explaining that stereotyping is different and is itself innocuous. It becomes wrong when we allow prejudice to color our stereotypes. To clarify myself, I do not think all homosexuals act like the opposite sex. To say that some or even many do, is a qualified statement, and therefore, is not stereotypical. I acknowledge that I have not met every homosexual and can't say they all do one thing or another.

You, however, make a comment about Christians (and I forgive your use of the word thumper) and call it ''christian fact"...then you reference a doctrinal flaw sometimes called 'dispensationalism,' which not all Christians subscribe to. In assuming this is what all Christians believe just because the ones in your experience do, you have (now hypocritically) negatively stereotyped the rest of us.

There are many fundamentalists that refuse to acknowledge the OT as anything more than a history book. Any argument you make to them which stems from there, they automatically disregard. However, it takes an understanding of the old and new covenants to see the OT correctly. The entire testament (every writing from gen-malachi) details life under the old covenant and records ceremonial law (any law resulting from the need for continuing sacrifices) Christ made a once and final sacrifice that fulfills the old covenant and administers that fulfillment to all Christians, freeing us from the need for continued obedience to these laws. Not all laws in the OT were ceremonial though, and those still apply (10 commandments, etc.)

I am not a fundamentalist. I am a Presbyterian. I love God, and I love enjoying the wonderful gifts He's given me...good food, good beer, good tobacco, good dancing...things fundamentalists reject as 'sinful' or 'worldly.' There are probably many things you think are universally true of Christians, because of widespread fundamentalism, that I reject...strict KJV useage, blind faith, etc.

As a post script: I apologize for my initial reply to you in this forum. It was rude.

Since: Sep 12

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#177
Oct 15, 2012
 
Yeah, I did have to run. I didn't tho, I walked :) It was a good time...took the kids to the park.

To your question about "which church" and all that.

First let me clarify that some things are in the government's court and others aren't, and that is where this argument is based. Example. Does the government have the right to limit our freedom because they have deemed our behavior to be harmful to ourselves? Of course, to the extent that it is harmful to others, then they must intervene...but what about to ourselves?
1.) There are laws in place banning the use of trans-fats in...I can't remember...New York, I think? The idea, though, is that, because its harmful for us to consume it, they are making it illegal. What's next? I mean, if unhealthy food is going to be illegalized by the government, I guarantee you can say bye-bye to McDonald's, cheesecake, sweet tea...you get the idea.
2.) How does me not wearing my seat-belt endanger anyone else? Yet, the government has taken it upon themselves to protect me from me by force of law and punishment. Have you seen "I, Robot"?
3.) People weren't putting enough into their savings acct.'s to provide for their care and cost of living after retirement. So, the government stepped in and created Social Security...to protect us from our own inability to save money. They expressed great intentions, then they used it like their own personal piggy bank. To pay us back what they've been taking out of our checks our entire working lives, we'll go trillions of dollars more into debt. Doesn't sound like much of a game plan...

I make these arguments for one reason. To show that not EVERY pot in which the government has its fingers is one in which it should be involved. Marriage is one of those things.

As far as which church...well, here's the deal. It's not an ideal situation - not every church believes what God's Word actually teaches (as I'm sure you know from personal experience)...yet clearly marriage was taking place long before our government said we needed a license to make it happen, so predating the government, it was clearly governed by something else. To say,'the church' means that each church performs whatever marriage they see fit. Ultimately, God holds them accountable for their participation in sinful marriages (marrying un biblical divorcees, homosexual marriage, etc.). There would be churches performing those marriages, and homosexual couples would live together and call themselves married, but they can say that now,(the couples I've met say they are "married")...so nothing changes except the fact that there is no political debates or campaign platforms because of the issue. The Reality is that all of this is already happening...if someone didn't agree with one church's standards for marriage, they could just go to a different church! The legalities of marriage (who gets stuff or kids after one spouse is deceased) can be handled with a lawyer - the government no longer has a role at all because they don't need to oversee or mandate these things. At that point, its just a legal contract tying yourself to this person and your shared belongings. this would be the case of all marriages, with no exclusions, and no favoritism.
Bob Jones

Spartanburg, SC

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#178
Oct 19, 2012
 
It ain't Adam and Steve!11!

http://www.upstatedebate.com
Beckie

Campobello, SC

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#179
Nov 11, 2012
 
I believe that love is love. It is betweent two consenting adults. It is not right that marriage is only define as between a man and a woman.
Beckie

Campobello, SC

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#180
Nov 11, 2012
 
Hannah wrote:
people disgust me.
I am a pansexual female (meaning I don't look at gender, love is love) and i know that I didn't CHOOSE to be this way. if I could be completely straight, I would, because of all the hurtful comments I get and people wanting to take away MY RIGHTS, just like YOU, but i'm not fully straight nor will i ever be, because i was born this way. i didn't choose it, nor can I help it.
If God wanted everyone to be straight, he would have made everyone straight. why should we judge on something people can't control? that's like saying mentally disabled people shouldn't marry. and as for "call it something other than marriage" lets look up the definition of marriage:
a (1): the state of being united in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2: an act of marrying or the right by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
I see nothing about it having to be a man and a woman. Love is love and why is it your problem if your gay neighbor wants to get married? if you don't like it then don't be around them, but please please please don't take away their rights. they have every right to be happy and married if they choose.
You oppose gay marriage because it is "wrong" even though they love each other, but kim kardashian's 72 day marriage is okay?
Get that stick out of your ass.
To add to your post...
In a letter to "Dear Abby" a reader complained that a gay couple was moving in across the street and wanted to know what he could do to improve the quality of the neighborhood.
Her suggestion -'You could move.'
Elite l337

Thomasville, NC

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#181
Nov 11, 2012
 
I don't think a man should recieve pleasure fiddling with another man's poop hole. Just sayin.
tom66

Conyers, GA

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#182
Nov 12, 2012
 
Elite l337 wrote:
I don't think a man should recieve pleasure fiddling with another man's poop hole. Just sayin.
Thats a normal response to something that's not normal.They have a disorder and hopefully seek out help.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#183
Nov 12, 2012
 
tom66 wrote:
<quoted text>Thats a normal response to something that's not normal.They have a disorder and hopefully seek out help.
Seems to me that the person who needs to seek out help is not the one doing legal things in the comfort of their own home, but the person who is obsessed over what they may or may not be doing and wants to say they are wrong for doiing it. Do you look at your neighbor and obsess over their sexual practices?..

Since: Dec 12

Greer, SC

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#186
Dec 3, 2012
 
Lorraine Ward you are probably the most ignorant person I have ever seen to post something about homosexuality being right or wrong. We are born this way its not a choice. And as for as the statement saying if god wanted the man to be with man he wouldn't have made women just shows your ignorance. Because if he wanted everyone to be the same we wouldnt have but one race and everyone would be the same. But, he made a world with diversity and yes the bible does make statements about it. But, the bible also forbids a list of other things that I am sure you do or have done so I have listed a few versus that you or anyone else that feels they are God and have the right to judge others should look up and maybe you will realize who you really are because your not God and do not have the right to judge and condemn anyone for how they live they live there life.

1. Luke 6:37, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven."

2. Leviticus 15:19-24 "If a woman has a discharge, and the discharge from her body is blood, she shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything that she lies on during her impurity shall be unclean; also everything that she sits on shall be unclean. Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. And whoever touches anything that she sat on shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. If anything is on her bed or on anything on which she sits, when he touches it, he shall be unclean until evening. And if any man lies with her at all, so that her impurity is on him, he shall be unclean seven days; and every bed on which he lies shall be unclean. "

3. "Exodus 20:14" Thou shalt not commit adultery."

4. Leviticus 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the Lord."

I could keep the list going but, since you seem to know the bible from cover to cover it shouldn't be necessary. Also, just Incase this didn't open your eyes we are human too no matter if we are white, gay, lesbian, black, hispanic, asian, pink, green, or whatever someone might be we are still children of God and apparently we were put here for a reason and that reason is not to be judged by anyone except for God himself. I ask him for forgiveness no one else. You might want to start doing the same.

You will be in my prayers Lorraine
God Bless You
 
CrankyYankee

Laurens, SC

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#187
Dec 3, 2012
 
Gay "marriage" is not possible. Silly to even consider it.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#188
Dec 3, 2012
 
CrankyYankee wrote:
Gay "marriage" is not possible. Silly to even consider it.
Since at its heart marriage is a civil contract between two conscenting adults. Such contract giving each party certain government granted benefits including legal and monetary. Such contract also providing for equal distribution of assets..... So why would ssm... not meet these criteria?....

Since: Sep 12

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#189
Dec 4, 2012
 
Tdm713 wrote:
Lorraine Ward you are probably the most ignorant person I have ever seen to post something about homosexuality being right or wrong. We are born this way its not a choice. And as for as the statement saying if god wanted the man to be with man he wouldn't have made women just shows your ignorance. Because if he wanted everyone to be the same we wouldnt have but one race and everyone would be the same. But, he made a world with diversity and yes the bible does make statements about it. But, the bible also forbids a list of other things that I am sure you do or have done so I have listed a few versus that you or anyone else that feels they are God and have the right to judge others should look up and maybe you will realize who you really are because your not God and do not have the right to judge and condemn anyone for how they live they live there life.
1. Luke 6:37, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven."
2. Leviticus 15:19-24 "If a woman has a discharge, and the discharge from her body is blood, she shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything that she lies on during her impurity shall be unclean; also everything that she sits on shall be unclean. Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. And whoever touches anything that she sat on shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. If anything is on her bed or on anything on which she sits, when he touches it, he shall be unclean until evening. And if any man lies with her at all, so that her impurity is on him, he shall be unclean seven days; and every bed on which he lies shall be unclean. "
3. "Exodus 20:14" Thou shalt not commit adultery."
4. Leviticus 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the Lord."
I could keep the list going but, since you seem to know the bible from cover to cover it shouldn't be necessary. Also, just Incase this didn't open your eyes we are human too no matter if we are white, gay, lesbian, black, hispanic, asian, pink, green, or whatever someone might be we are still children of God and apparently we were put here for a reason and that reason is not to be judged by anyone except for God himself. I ask him for forgiveness no one else. You might want to start doing the same.
You will be in my prayers Lorraine
God Bless You
 
Hey, Just thought I'd let you in on a little secret...I'm a anti-homosexual Christian, marriage not being an issue at all, from a political viewpoint, since marriage or no marriage, homosexuals will continue in their sin either way...and I used to be a homosexual; I was one for several years. I also had a friend in college who used to be one as well, and she also had left her sinful lifestyle and converted to Christianity.

We may have inborn preferences, due to hormones or chemicals or anything else, but our choice to perform a sinful act based on those preferences is our CHOICE...no one makes someone perform homosexual acts - they choose to do it. Ignorant people think otherwise, and it seems to be a popular liberal theory, but the theory breaks down in the face of people like me, and my college friend...if our chemicals, hormones, and upbringing make us who we are, then you have to refuse to acknowledge that people like me exist - people whose proclivities, for whatever reason, tend us towards sinful behavior, but we count ourselves dead to our sinful natures, our flesh and we know, as Christians, that Christ has made us alive in Him...no longer slaves to our old sinful selves.

And you can put that in your pipe and smoke it.:)
cant pray the gay away

Bolingbrook, IL

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#190
Dec 4, 2012
 
LisaCP2012 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, Just thought I'd let you in on a little secret...I'm a anti-homosexual Christian, marriage not being an issue at all, from a political viewpoint, since marriage or no marriage, homosexuals will continue in their sin either way...and I used to be a homosexual; I was one for several years. I also had a friend in college who used to be one as well, and she also had left her sinful lifestyle and converted to Christianity.
We may have inborn preferences, due to hormones or chemicals or anything else, but our choice to perform a sinful act based on those preferences is our CHOICE...no one makes someone perform homosexual acts - they choose to do it. Ignorant people think otherwise, and it seems to be a popular liberal theory, but the theory breaks down in the face of people like me, and my college friend...if our chemicals, hormones, and upbringing make us who we are, then you have to refuse to acknowledge that people like me exist - people whose proclivities, for whatever reason, tend us towards sinful behavior, but we count ourselves dead to our sinful natures, our flesh and we know, as Christians, that Christ has made us alive in Him...no longer slaves to our old sinful selves.
And you can put that in your pipe and smoke it.:)
You are full of it u know that dont you..... If what you say was true then how come science has not come up w a "cure"... depression is a chem. imbalance and they found a cure... pms is a homonal imballance and they found ways to alleve it... yet nothing for homosexualu imballance.... please

Then you go off on It is ok to be homo, but dont act on it. The sin is acting on your feelings, no having them is that whaht you are saying?.
Right you were a lesbian and prayed the gay away. Hate to tell you this that is like being a brunett and dying your hair blond.. you may look like a blond to everyone else... but at your roots you are still a brunnette (homosexual) just in denial.

Since: Sep 12

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#191
Dec 4, 2012
 
Thank you for your questions. I fear that many people are confused about this issue, as you are, yet don't feel able or don't know how to express it. You have done so wonderfully.

First of all, the only prayer that God hears from the unregenerate (you might say, unsaved) is the prayer of repentance and acceptance of Christ's Lordship over all, and personally. So, it is not an issue of 'praying the gay away.' It doesn't matter what your sin of choice is - without salvation through Christ, you are going to be separated from God for all eternity.

The truth of what I say is, in no way, harmed by your analogy. I do not make out that homosexual behavior is caused by chemicals/hormones/etc., only that those things are potentially factors in homosexual desires. I do not make it exclusive to those things though - there might be hundreds or thousands of factors. So, science hasn't come up with a cure because you can't cure sin with medicine. There is no excuse under the sun for sinful behavior. As with all sins, repentance and salvation is the cure. As for treating it like an illness, kleptomaniacs can be treated for their disorder, right? Now, stealing is against the law, but only because its a Biblical precept - as is homosexuality, even though its legal. But even if there were no treatments, we still imprison them for stealing...should we let them steal just because they are pre-disposed to do so? Having a tendency or urge does not excuse it if it is a sinful act. Homosexuality is the only instance where people try to argue otherwise.

As for homosexual acts, I only make a delineation between what we feel like doing and what we actually do. The desires alone do not make you homosexual. No more so that being tempted to murder makes you guilty of murdering, even if the temptation is due to your upbringing or a chemical imbalance...so, for me, I still struggle with homosexual proclivities, 3 years and 2 children into the happiest marriage you will probably ever see...but I do not act on them because it would be sinful.

And you are right. I am in denial. Every true Christian is. Each and every day we deny ourselves, even die to ourselves, to our sinful habits, our 'flesh' as the Bible refers to it...and at the end of the day, when we see that we didn't get it all right all the time, we are able to come before God and ask for His forgiveness and for the strength to repent (turn away from) the sins to which we fell that day.

Do you know the difference between a Christian who sins and an unregenerate person who sins? The unregenerate man accepts his sin, excuses it....the Christian struggles against it, and experiences victory over it, through his salvation...not perfectly, but progressively better and better.
Diane

Cumming, GA

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#192
Dec 9, 2012
 
Its not your life...why worry with something that DOES'NT PERTAIN to you..if your concernd with this your JUST plain BORED...!!!

Since: Dec 12

Seneca, SC

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#193
Dec 11, 2012
 
I support "human" rights, in all ways!!

Since: Dec 12

Greer, SC

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#194
Dec 13, 2012
 
No matter what we are still human and children of God. So, no matter what all humans sin and also, no sin is greater than the next. What makes it right for us not to have equal rights? Now, remember we are still human just like you and everyone else. Everyone should be treated equal because no one has the right to judge someone.
Straight Arrow

Mauldin, SC

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#195
Dec 18, 2012
 
Thank God these misfits can't reproduce , cause it's all in there head , not there genes. This gay thing is a chosen lifestyle , they were born only one way , not both ways. This is a chosen lifestyle only , and they can't prove it any other way , tho the gay science is trying to. When you can't tell night from day and straight from gay , the end of time is near so be straight and not queer !!!!!!!

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