Gay Marriage Debate - Chicago, IL

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Chicago, IL.

Do you support gay marriage?

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Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2024 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I'm claiming Not Yet Equal promotes antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, irrational fear, hostile behavior and violence by ignoring true evil and using homophbia to defame political opponents.
And as usual, you provide nothing to support your defamatory claims, because you have nothing.

It is the denial of equal treatment under the law that harms others. I am proposing equal treatment. It is you who is promoting discrimination.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2025 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
DOMA and Proposition 8 hasn't been reviewed by the US Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit is an activist court, it's ruling on DOMA won't stand. Judge Walker's ruling on Proposition 8 was flawed by denying Cooper the right to present evidence and testimony on how same sex marriage harms society including unmarried people.
Gay rights are human rights, everybody should be treated with simple human decency. Gay rights don't include the 'right' to redefine marriage for everybody.
False information.

Cooper was afforded every opportunity to present evidence and testimony, and he did. Judge Walker even encouraged Cooper to present more evidence.

In Ca., every time discrimination has appeared before the trial courts, appeals courts, then the Ca supreme court, then the federal trial court and appeals court, it has been found to be unconstitutional. You provide no legitimate reason any of those courts should have found otherwise.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2026 Jan 6, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
And as usual, you provide nothing to support your defamatory claims, because you have nothing. It is the denial of equal treatment under the law that harms others. I am proposing equal treatment. It is you who is promoting discrimination.
There is no right to gender equality in the US Constitution.

Violence and abuse harms others; keeping marriage male/female is beneficial to gays because every homosexual was born of male/female union.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

#2027 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There is no right to gender equality in the US Constitution.Violence and abuse harms others; keeping marriage male/female is beneficial to gays because every homosexual was born of male/female union.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Does the 14th say all all persons" All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"... yes or no

If yes.. are not women u.s. citizens... yes or no...

If they are citizens then per the constituion they would be equal...

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2028 Jan 6, 2013
No, all person's have the right to due process; there is no right to gender equality. In fact, the next section of the 14th Amendment explicitly recognizes male and female as unequal; just as it recognizes citizen and non citizen or adult and child as unequal.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2029 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There is no right to gender equality in the US Constitution.
Violence and abuse harms others; keeping marriage male/female is beneficial to gays because every homosexual was born of male/female union.
Despite your repeated denial of reality, the constitution requires equal treatment of "all persons".

While treating "all persons" equally as require by the constitution harms no one, we know for certain that discrimination under the law causes harm.

Allowing gay people to participate equally has no effect on heterosexual reproduction. Straight people will continue to produce gay, straight, and bisexual people, just as they do now.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2030 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
No, all person's have the right to due process; there is no right to gender equality. In fact, the next section of the 14th Amendment explicitly recognizes male and female as unequal; just as it recognizes citizen and non citizen or adult and child as unequal.
And again, and again, and again, that recognition of women not being allowed to vote was nullified by the 19th amendment. There is no longer any legally valid gender discrimination in the constitution.

Equal treatment of all persons is required by the 5th amendment as well as the 14th.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2031 Jan 6, 2013
"it is instructive to recall in this regard that the traditional, well-established legal rules and practices of our not-so-distant past (1) barred interracial marriage,(2) upheld the routine exclusion of women from many occupations and official duties, and (3) considered the relegation of racial minorities to separate and assertedly equivalent public facilities and institutions as constitutionally equal treatment." ""If we have learned anything from the significant evolution in the prevailing societal views and official policies toward members of minority races and toward women over the past half-century, it is that even the most familiar and generally accepted of social practices and traditions often mask unfairness and inequality that frequently is not recognized or appreciated by those not directly harmed by those practices or traditions."

"Conventional understanding of marriage must yield to a more contemporary appreciation of the rights entitled to constitutional protection. Interpreting our state constitutional provisions in accordance with firmly established equal protection principles leads inevitably to the conclusion that gay persons are entitled to marry the otherwise qualified same sex partner of their choice." "To decide otherwise would require us to apply one set of constitutional principles to gay persons and another to all others."
(In re marriage)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2032 Jan 6, 2013
"In the court’s final analysis, the government’s only basis for supporting DOMA comes down to an apparent belief that the moral views of the majority may properly be enacted as the law of the land in regard to state-sanctioned same-sex marriage in disregard of the personal status and living conditions of a significant segment of our pluralistic society. Such a view is not consistent with the evidence or the law as embodied in the Fifth Amendment with respect to the thoughts expressed in this decision. The court has no doubt about its conclusion: DOMA deprives them of the equal protection of the law to which they are entitled."
http://metroweekly.com/poliglot/57794777-DOMA ...

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2033 Jan 7, 2013
All persons have equal protection; that doesn't make an adult equal to a child, a citizen equal to a non citizen or a male equal to a female. Equal protection doesn't mean gender equality.

The Equal Rights Amendment failed ratification; now it's too late. A few foreign countries have gender equality laws in their Constitutions; the USA does not.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2034 Jan 7, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
All persons have equal protection; that doesn't make an adult equal to a child, a citizen equal to a non citizen or a male equal to a female. Equal protection doesn't mean gender equality.
The Equal Rights Amendment failed ratification; now it's too late. A few foreign countries have gender equality laws in their Constitutions; the USA does not.
This same old nonsense fails to provide any legitimate governmental interest sufficient for denial of equal treatment under the law as required by the 5th and 14th amendments to the constitution.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2035 Jan 7, 2013
Homosexuals have equal treatment under the law; there is no orientation test for a marriage license. Many gays marry under the same laws as everyone else; I think that's because they want their children to have married parents so they won't be bastards.

Same sex marriage supporters don't want equal treatment, they want to change the institution of marriage for everyone.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2036 Jan 7, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Homosexuals have equal treatment under the law; there is no orientation test for a marriage license. Many gays marry under the same laws as everyone else; I think that's because they want their children to have married parents so they won't be bastards.
Same sex marriage supporters don't want equal treatment, they want to change the institution of marriage for everyone.
And again and again and again, the legal marriages of gay people are not treated as equal to the other marriages from the same jurisdiction by all other jurisdictions. This is not equal treatment. It is clearly discrimination under the law.

Treating gay couples equally under the laws currently in effect makes no changes to the institution of marriage for straight couples.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2037 Jan 7, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There is no right to gender equality in the US Constitution.
Violence and abuse harms others; keeping marriage male/female is beneficial to gays because every homosexual was born of male/female union.
I believe the constitution is silent about marriage. Please point out where it says anything about marriage.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2038 Jan 7, 2013
It's a lack of self awareness; if you change the rules of marriage to consider two men or two women as married where all previous written law always considered marriage male/female; you've changed the institution for everyone. People don't just marry for sexual gratification; sometimes their are economic interests. Same sex marriage would change marriage as much for heterosexuals as for homosexuals.

Once you consider the consequences of new social policy, instead of doing what feels right or good, you stop being a liberal and become a conservative.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#2039 Jan 8, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
It's a lack of self awareness; if you change the rules of marriage to consider two men or two women as married where all previous written law always considered marriage male/female; you've changed the institution for everyone. People don't just marry for sexual gratification; sometimes their are economic interests. Same sex marriage would change marriage as much for heterosexuals as for homosexuals.
Once you consider the consequences of new social policy, instead of doing what feels right or good, you stop being a liberal and become a conservative.
This country was built on change. The only thing certain in life is change.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2040 Jan 8, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
This country was built on change. The only thing certain in life is change.
Except from a vending machine...

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2041 Jan 8, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
It's a lack of self awareness; if you change the rules of marriage to consider two men or two women as married where all previous written law always considered marriage male/female; you've changed the institution for everyone. People don't just marry for sexual gratification; sometimes their are economic interests. Same sex marriage would change marriage as much for heterosexuals as for homosexuals.
Once you consider the consequences of new social policy, instead of doing what feels right or good, you stop being a liberal and become a conservative.
You fail to show how allowing gay people to participate under the laws currently in effect otherwise changes the laws currently in effect. There is no change in the marriages of straight people.

Treating "all persons" equally under the law as required by the 5th and 14th amendments is not a "feel good" social policy. It is a fundamental principal of law. True conservatives believe in the rule of law including the requirement to treat everyone equally under the law as promised by our founding documents and constitution.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#2042 Jan 8, 2013
Conservative anti-marriage equality director of the Institute for American Values David Blankenhorn, one of the few witnesses who testified in favor of Prop 8, testified under oath:

“Gay marriage would be a victory for the worthy ideas of tolerance and inclusion. It would likely decrease the number of those in society who tend to be viewed warily as ‘other’ and increase the number who are accepted as part of ‘us.’ In that respect, gay marriage would be a victory for, and another key expansion of, the American idea.”

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2043 Jan 8, 2013
Same sex marriage rewrites marriage laws for everyone, not just homosexuals. It would change the way children are taught about marriage in schools, the way your Church is treated by the public and create a new body of divorce and adoption law.

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