Gay Marriage Debate - Chicago, IL

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Chicago, IL.

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“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

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#2106
Mar 14, 2013
 
"[C]ouples where one or both partners are fixed,[] elderly couples with the women post menopausal" can provide an adopted child something no same sex couple can; a mother and father.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2107
Mar 14, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
"[C]ouples where one or both partners are fixed,[] elderly couples with the women post menopausal" can provide an adopted child something no same sex couple can; a mother and father.
Sorry can t have it both ways. Your origional premise was having children not adopting.

Oh btw.. while it is better to have both m and d... not needed, not required, to adopt.... so strike on that also

Since: Jun 11

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#2108
Mar 14, 2013
 
Again, we know that while having two parents is usually better than one, the gender of the parents makes no difference in predicting the success of the child. The determining factor is the relationship between the parent and child, not gender.

Dr Eggebeen (witness against marriage equality) also conceded that "gay and lesbian couples can , and do, make excellent parents" "that they are capable of raising a healthy child", and "that children of same sex couples would be helped if their families had access to or were able to receive benefits of marriage".

Dr. Charlotte Patterson: there was "no data or research which establishes that gay fathers and lesbian mothers are less capable of being good parents than non-gay people.

Dr. David Brodzinsky: The issue is not the structural variable, biological versus nonbiological, one parent versus two parent. The issue is really the process variables, how children are cared for, is the child provided warmth, it the child provided consistency of care, is the child provided a stimulated environment, is the e child given support.... and when you take a look at structural variables, there's not all that much support that structural variable in and of themselves are all that important.

Dr. Pepper Shwartz: "the primary quality of parenting is not the parenting structure, or biology, but is the nurturing relationship between parent and child."

Yet procreation or even ability to have sex is not a requirement for marriage as elderly, sterile, and others who either cannot or choose not to reproduce demonstrate by getting married every day.

This excuse further fails the test of rationality when you consider that gay people can and do reproduce using all of the methods used by straight people who choose assistance, as well as adoption.

Gay couples are raising children.

Denial of equal treatment won't stop that. Nor will it provide anything to straight couples. It only harms same sex couples and their children needlessly.

Since: Jun 11

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#2109
Mar 14, 2013
 
Gender alone is not a legitimate restriction for the fundamental right of marriage.
As procreation is not a requirement, the restriction to one of each is artificial and serves no legitimate governmental interest.

The restrictions on age, ability to demonstrate informed consent, close blood relative, and not currently married, all have rational support, serve legitimate governmental interests, and have demonstrated these rational interests in science as well as through the legal process.

There is no reason to believe removing the gender restriction would require removing the restrictions on age, informed consent, close blood relative, or number. Removing those restrictions would change marriage for everyone, while treating married same sex couples equally under the laws currently in effect does not change the marriages of opposite sex couples.

Denial of equal treatment does not provide anything to straight couples. It only harms same sex couples and their children needlessly.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#2110
Mar 14, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
Sorry can t have it both ways. Your origional premise was having children not adopting.
I'm not having it both ways, a benefit isn't the same thing as a requirement; I've never claimed procreation is a requirement for marriage or expected government to measure fertility before issuing a marriage license. It's 'come on now' who wants it both ways and claims the benefit of procreation must be a requirement, as if you have to shoot all your food if you own a hunting license.

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come on now wrote:
Oh btw.. while it is better to have both m and d... not needed, not required, to adopt.... so strike on that also
I'm pleased to hear 'come on now' admits having both a mother and father is better than two fathers or two mothers. Now, he should convince 'Not Yet Equal' of that bit of wisdom.

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#2111
Mar 14, 2013
 
Dr Eggebeen (witness against marriage equality) also conceded that "gay and lesbian couples can , and do, make excellent parents" "that they are capable of raising a healthy child", and "that children of same sex couples would be helped if their families had access to or were able to receive benefits of marriage".

Dr. Charlotte Patterson: "there was "no data or research which establishes that gay fathers and lesbian mothers are less capable of being good parents than non-gay people."

Dr. David Brodzinsky: "The issue is not the structural variable, biological versus nonbiological, one parent versus two parent. The issue is really the process variables, how children are cared for, is the child provided warmth, it the child provided consistency of care, is the child provided a stimulated environment, is the e child given support.... and when you take a look at structural variables, there's not all that much support that structural variable in and of themselves are all that important."

Dr. Pepper Shwartz: "the primary quality of parenting is not the parenting structure, or biology, but is the nurturing relationship between parent and child."

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#2112
Mar 15, 2013
 
Every child raised by a gay couple is raised without a mother and every child raised by a lesbian couple is raised without a father.

'Nuff said!
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2113
Mar 15, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
Every child raised by a gay couple is raised without a mother and every child raised by a lesbian couple is raised without a father.
'Nuff said!
And yet studies show they still turn out as good as single parent children, or those of ssc.... nuff said

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#2114
Mar 15, 2013
 
That't opposite from the data I've seen. Can you cite?

http://www.human.cornell.edu/pam/outreach/upl...

Table 1: Averages on key outcomes, by family type.
Continuously Married
All Low Medium High Stepfather Single
conflict conflict conflict
Outcomes
High school dropout 0.12 0.06 0.08 0.12 0.19 0.25
Poor grades 0.22 0.18 0.18 0.24 0.23 0.28
No college 0.37 0.31 0.32 0.34 0.46 0.52
Smoking 0.31 0.24 0.27 0.33 0.38 0.38
Binge drinking 0.35 0.29 0.38 0.42 0.32 0.32
Marijuana use 0.24 0.20 0.24 0.25 0.29 0.25
Early sex 0.20 0.15 0.14 0.22 0.29 0.28
Early cohabitation 0.20 0.14 0.17 0.17 0.31 0.34
Nonmarital fertility 0.09 0.06 0.07 0.10 0.15 0.16
Union disruption 0.40 0.32 0.38 0.41 0.43 0.57

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/double...
The Kids Are Not Really Alright
Itís worse to be raised by a single mother, even if youíre not poor.
By W. Bradford Wilcox|Posted Friday, July 20, 2012, at 8:22 AM

Take two contemporary social problems: teenage pregnancy and the incarceration of young males. Research by Sara McLanahan at Princeton University suggests that boys are significantly more likely to end up in jail or prison by the time they turn 30 if they are raised by a single mother. Specifically, McLanahan and a colleague found that boys raised in a single-parent household were more than twice as likely to be incarcerated, compared with boys raised in an intact, married home, even after controlling for differences in parental income, education, race, and ethnicity. Research on young men suggests they are less likely to engage in delinquent or illegal behavior when they have the affection, attention, and monitoring of their own mother and father.
Zachkx

La Place, LA

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#2116
May 20, 2013
 
I shouldn't have to explain.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#2117
May 21, 2013
 
Let's discuss how the IRS harassed conservative groups and leaked financial information of marriage protectors to their allies in the media. Romney's campaign donors were targeted too.

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