Gay Marriage Debate - Chicago, IL

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Chicago, IL.

Do you support gay marriage?

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Since: Jun 11

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#2085
Jan 12, 2013
 
come on now wrote:
<quoted text>
If I'm wrong, tell us which arguments for protecting the one man and one woman definition of marriage is rational."
Could be because there is no rational reason. You have posted many inane reasons... all of which have been shown to be false or moot. There is absolutely no reason why two u.s. citizens of the same sex should not be allowed to enter into the civil contrract of marriage and enjoy all the benifits there of.
Agreed.

No one can demonstrate a compelling and legitimate governmental interest for refusing to treat same sex couples equally to opposite sex couples under the law. The excuses rely on irrational assertions, empty bumper sticker slogans like "protecting marriage", fear mongering, and inappropriate use of terminology.

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#2086
Jan 12, 2013
 
Now, same sex marriage supporters like 'Not Yet Equal' want to be the judge of 'inappropriate use of terminology'; as if only they have access to dictionaries.

Their methods of argument are pathetic.
Amanda Burnett

Chelsea, OK

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#2087
Mar 3, 2013
 
We are all just people, we all deserve the SAME righs as everybody else, WE ARE ALL THE SAME ON THE INSIDE!!!!!

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#2089
Mar 10, 2013
 
Men and women are different inside, sexual differentiation exists in anatomy as well as society. No matter how much you want to be the same as a women, nature has her own rules.

If you believe men and women are different, you don't want to bring gender segregation to marriage because having government license unisex marriage is like saying husbands or wives and mothers or fathers are dispensable. Bad ideas for everyone; keep marriage one man and one woman like Illinois law says.

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#2090
Mar 10, 2013
 
While children tend to do better with two parents rather than one, gender is not a determining variable.

Neither parent is dispensable, yet one of each gender is not required. The most important factor is the relationship between the parent and child.

Hawaii Supreme Court testamony:

Dr Eggebeen (witness against marriage equality) also conceded that "gay and lesbian couples can , and do, make excellent parents" "that they are capable of raising a healthy child", and "that children of same sex couples would be helped if their families had access to or were able to receive benefits of marriage".

Dr. Charlotte Patterson: there was "no data or research which establishes that gay fathers and lesbian mothers are less capable of being good parents than non-gay people.

Dr. David Brodzinsky: The issue is not the structural variable, biological versus nonbiological, one parent versus two parent. The issue is really the process variables, how children are cared for, is the child provided warmth, it the child provided consistency of care, is the child provided a stimulated environment, is the e child given support.... and when you take a look at structural variables, there's not all that much support that structural variable in and of themselves are all that important.

Dr. Pepper Shwartz: "the primary quality of parenting is not the parenting structure, or biology, but is the nurturing relationship between parent and child."

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#2091
Mar 11, 2013
 
Two men or two women can't have children as a couple, they could make heterosexual arrangements and redistribute the children after birth, by themselves, same sex couples are barren.

In that sense, same sex marriage is like child kidnapping, taking a child away from his mother or father.

Having your own married parents raise you brings the best outcome for a child, especially if the father has graduated high school, found a job and married before having kids.

Face reality; same sex marriage is so bad...

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#2092
Mar 11, 2013
 
Dr Eggebeen (witness against marriage equality) also conceded that "gay and lesbian couples can , and do, make excellent parents" "that they are capable of raising a healthy child", and "that children of same sex couples would be helped if their families had access to or were able to receive benefits of marriage".

Dr. Charlotte Patterson: there was "no data or research which establishes that gay fathers and lesbian mothers are less capable of being good parents than non-gay people.

Dr. David Brodzinsky: The issue is not the structural variable, biological versus nonbiological, one parent versus two parent. The issue is really the process variables, how children are cared for, is the child provided warmth, it the child provided consistency of care, is the child provided a stimulated environment, is the e child given support.... and when you take a look at structural variables, there's not all that much support that structural variable in and of themselves are all that important.

Dr. Pepper Shwartz: "the primary quality of parenting is not the parenting structure, or biology, but is the nurturing relationship between parent and child."

The children of same sex couples, either biologically related or adopted, do just as well as the children who live with both biological parents. Appeals to emotionally with pejorative terminology do not change this fact.

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#2093
Mar 11, 2013
 
Gay people have always been around no matter how well accepted or how severely punished. The reality is, gay people have in the past, and will continue to form relationships.

The question then becomes, are we going to accept reality and encourage strong, committed relationships around the shared values of family, fidelity, and responsibility, with the help of friends, family, and the government, or is it in the best interest of society to make laws that attack and demean such relationships, causing unjustified harm to those couples and their children.

Denial of equal treatment under the law provides nothing to opposite sex couples and their familis. It only harms same sex couples and their families needlessly.

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#2094
Mar 12, 2013
 
Gays have always existed, same sex marriage law is a 21st century novelty. If you believe in equal rights for all, don't make up special rights and ersatz equality.

Gays face criminal penalties in many countries, let's all work together for human rights, instead of against each other on these special rights for homosexuals to adopt and marry. This way, we can improve the human condition instead of furthering the anti-individual agenda of the left.

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#2095
Mar 12, 2013
 
Even the rabidly anti-gay WBC admits same sex marriage was legal before the time of Noah. From their legal brief to the Supreme Court:

"Another Midrash says that males just didn't sodomize other males, but that they signed ketobot (marriage contracts) legalizing these re-lationships."

Other examples of committed same sex unions can be found at various times and places around the world, including Christian ceremonies, demonstrating same sex couples have always existed and formed families.

Prejudice fails to provide a legitimate governmental justification for denial of equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution, to same sex couples and their families. It only harms those denied while providing nothing to opposite sex couples and their families.

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#2096
Mar 12, 2013
 
Prejudice fails to qualify as a legitimate governmental interest sufficient for denial of equal treatment as required by the 5th and 14th amendments.

“These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”
SCOTUS

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#2097
Mar 12, 2013
 
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Even the rabidly anti-gay WBC admits same sex marriage was legal before the time of Noah. From their legal brief to the Supreme Court:
"Another Midrash says that males just didn't sodomize other males, but that they signed ketobot (marriage contracts) legalizing these re-lationships."
Other examples of committed same sex unions can be found at various times and places around the world, including Christian ceremonies, demonstrating same sex couples have always existed and formed families.
Prejudice fails to provide a legitimate governmental justification for denial of equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution, to same sex couples and their families. It only harms those denied while providing nothing to opposite sex couples and their families.
Yeah, they say it caused the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; that's a neat argument you've got their chief. Any other day, they'd be telling us this was myth; they'll use ANYTHING to promote their political agenda.

This is where we differ, I respect truth. If you are going to tell a story, tell it all.

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#2098
Mar 12, 2013
 
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Prejudice fails to qualify as a legitimate governmental interest sufficient for denial of equal treatment as required by the 5th and 14th amendments.
“These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.” SCOTUS
"The question before the Court is the validity of a Texas statute making it a crime for two persons of the same sex to engage in certain intimate sexual conduct." Not rewriting marriage laws for everyone. Sodomy isn't a crime in the USA, there's no law against your homosexual relationship or cohabitation in any state. Those that want to criminalize intimate sexual conduct or redefine marriage for everyone are the extremists; those that want marriage as is and Lawrence v Texas respected are centrist moderates.

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#2099
Mar 12, 2013
 
The use of the story of Sodom to label a sex act is a good example of a misinterpretation and misapplication of biblical verses to demonize and dehumanize.

"The primarily sexual meaning of the word sodomia for Christians did not evolve before the 6th century AD. Roman Emperor Justinian I, in his novels no. 77 (dating 538) and no. 141 (dating 559) amended to his Corpus iuris civilis, and declared that Sodom's sin had been specifically same-sex activities and desire for them. He also linked "famines, earthquakes, and pestilences" upon cities as being due to "such crimes", during a time of recent earthquakes and other disasters." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

Sin of Sodom http://www.iwgonline.org/docs/sodom.html

"There are about twenty references to the story of Sodom in the Bible, and none of them says homosexuality was the sin of Sodom. One of the most extensive references to Sodom is found in Ezekiel, which says,“This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.”(Ezekiel 16:49-50 (See note 5.)) It is clear from this passage (and others like it (See note 6.)) that the abomination of Sodom, according to the Old Testament prophets, was that they behaved with callous indifference toward the weak and vulnerable — the poor, orphans, widows, and strangers in their midst." http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblica...

The point of Sodom was that you should love others, not abuse them. It was about harming them instead of treating them the way you want to be treated. It was about how you treat "the stranger at the gate." It had nothing to do with loving same sex relationships based on mutual respect and love between adults.

"Jesus and five Old Testament prophets all speak of the sins that led to the destruction of Sodom -- and not one of them mentions homosexuality. Even Billy Graham doesn't mention homosexuality when he preaches on Sodom."
"Ezekiel 16:48-49 tell us: "This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God's eyes."

"It was common for soldiers, thieves, and bullies to rape a fallen enemy, asserting their victory by dehumanizing and demeaning the vanquished. This act of raping an enemy is about power and revenge,"

And it still happens today, most notoriously in prisons. It is not about love. It is about power, control, domination, and abuse. Rape is not love.

"The sexual act that occurs in the story of Sodom is a gang rape -- and homosexuals oppose gang rape as much as anyone. That's why I believe the story of Sodom says a lot about God's will for each of us, but nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today." ( quotes from: What the Bible says - and doesn't say - about Homosexuality)

Even the English versions of this story demonstrate there was nothing that can be honestly used to condemn gay people. Many other explanations including the Jewish versions of the this story agree the message is that you should not harm others but instead, treat them with love.

"In Sodom every one who gave bread and water to the poor was condemned to death by fire (Yal&#7731;., Gen. 83). Two girls, one poor and the other rich, went to a well; and the former gave the latter her jug of water, receiving in return a vessel containing bread. When this became known, both were burned alive."
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13827-...

So when you see verses that refer to Sodomites, they are addressing those who harm others needlessly, not same sex relationships based on mutual love and respect.

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#2100
Mar 13, 2013
 
NotYetEqual is entitled to her religious beliefs and you are entitled to your religious beliefs. That doesn't change the law, Illinois and DOMA define marriage as one man and one woman.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2101
Mar 13, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
NotYetEqual is entitled to her religious beliefs and you are entitled to your religious beliefs. That doesn't change the law, Illinois and DOMA define marriage as one man and one woman.
All that shows is they are both wrong . Illinois has a bill to allow for ssm... DOMA will be repealed this year by SCOTUS...

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#2102
Mar 13, 2013
 
Illinois law defines marriage as one man and one woman:

FAMILIES
(750 ILCS 5/) Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act.

...

PART II
MARRIAGE

(750 ILCS 5/201)(from Ch. 40, par. 201)
Sec. 201. Formalities.) A marriage between a man and a woman licensed, solemnized and registered as provided in this Act is valid in this State.
(Source: P.A. 80-923.)
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs5.as...

Illinois permits same sex unions, so do I. They are the perfect compromise of freedom with an orderly society.
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2103
Mar 13, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
Illinois law defines marriage as one man and one woman:
FAMILIES
(750 ILCS 5/) Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act.
...
PART II
MARRIAGE
(750 ILCS 5/201)(from Ch. 40, par. 201)
Sec. 201. Formalities.) A marriage between a man and a woman licensed, solemnized and registered as provided in this Act is valid in this State.
(Source: P.A. 80-923.)
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs5.as...
Illinois permits same sex unions, so do I. They are the perfect compromise of freedom with an orderly society.
Again that just shows Illinois to be wrong.... so...

Perfect compromise... you mean letting them have a union which does not grant them the same rights as a marriage is a compromise?....

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#2104
Mar 13, 2013
 
Same sex couples don't benefit society the way opposite sex couples do; that's why the people aren't willing to redefine marriage to satisfy sexual predilection. If same sex marriage were law today, tomorrow Muslims would demand polygamy as marriage equality, the day after, pederasts would demand lowering the age of consent for marriage equality. When would you stop?
come on now

Bolingbrook, IL

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#2105
Mar 13, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
Same sex couples don't benefit society the way opposite sex couples do; that's why the people aren't willing to redefine marriage to satisfy sexual predilection. If same sex marriage were law today, tomorrow Muslims would demand polygamy as marriage equality, the day after, pederasts would demand lowering the age of consent for marriage equality. When would you stop?
The benifit society the same way infertile couples do... the same way couples where one or both partners are fixed, the same way elderly couples with the women post menopausal do... yet these people can get married.... so much four your argument

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