Gay Marriage Debate - Bellingham, WA

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Bellingham, WA.

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Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#64 Jan 23, 2012
You forgot Roman Emperor Hadrian--he was gay. Learned of that when hiking Hadrian's Wall in England in 1994.

But these should be called Civil Unions--not marriage. There is a difference--hetero and homo are not the same. Celebrate diversity, remember? Hetero involves child rearing/self-sacrifice.

I've not raised any children, so not fuly qualified to have an opinion on child rearing, but think 'Heather Has Two Mommies' shouldn't be in the children's section of public libraries--that children should not be taught sexual diversity before they're taught the stork doesn't deliver the babies.

But as for the bible, keep in mind Leviticus 21:9 says if a priest's daughter is caught playing the harlot, she should be burned (to death). Funny you seldom hear about that verse when the biblical morality is discussed. Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr (author of 'The Serenity Prayer') referred to the moral ambiguity of all righteous people in history. Etc.
Chelsea

Bellingham, WA

#65 Jan 25, 2012
There is proof that gay parents don't raise "gay children". Straight people raise gay children.

How does the marriage between gay people even affect you? It doesn't.

It just to be morally "wrong" for a white person to marry a black person. That obviously changed. Get on the right side of history. Also, get the fuck over it.

"freedom of religion"
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#66 Jan 25, 2012
What? The last post doesn't make alot of sense. Who is the post directed at?

I spoke last night at County meeting during public comment. Repeated point about gay community emphasis on "celebrating diversity". Wondered why then the gay community seeks the same title for their partnership unions as heterosexuals. Why not insist upon difference, and say the gay community prefers "civil unions" instead of "marriage" so as not to be the same as heteros?
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#67 Jan 25, 2012
One other thought...it seems the push for gay "marriage" is that it will not be considered legitimate unless it is same as hetero. "Civil union" should be fully acceptable; preferred even.
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#68 Jan 26, 2012
Also, wonder if gay "marriage" is assimilation instead of integration (an African-American USA Today columnist emphasized the importance of black "integration not assimilation" years ago...same principle can be applied to gay community).
Sean

Bellingham, WA

#69 Jan 28, 2012
Marriage is between a man and woman, just as God created it for.
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#70 Jan 30, 2012
Found this on a webpage online (when Googling "gay marriage assimilation"):

African-American gays on marriage, assimilation
Memphis, Tenn.--Iíve never been a fan of THE ADVOCATE. It perpetuates the stereotype that all homosexuals are shallow, pro-corporate, bubble-gum, upper middle class, and white. The first article I read in THE ADVOCATE was about gay marriage. In true ADVOCATE style, the article said nothing, but the accompanying picture said it all. The picture featured a gay male couple, obviously well off, well groomed, color coordinated, and, of course, white; matching Gaybies strapped to their tummies, kissing after engaging in the Bonds of Matrimony. The All-American couple.

This picture exemplifies a growing schism in the gay community between the assimilationists, who want to integrate into "mainstream" (read: white middle-class heterosexual) American society at all costs, and the liberationists, who want to facilitate and maintain a distinct gay cultural identity.

How can our self-appointed gay leaders tout same sex marriage and ignore issues that are far more pressing? While gay marriage will benefit gay couples, it will not help the single gay who is about to be thrown out of his home because he is too sick to work. It will not help the single lesbian who is suffering from breast cancer and cannot undergo chemotherapy or buy medication because she has no insurance. It wonít help the homeless gay youth who was thrown out on the streets because his father found out that she was gay.

As a member of two minority groups, it is difficult for me to support an individual or group that supports one part of my being and castigates the other. I cannot support a Black group that discriminates against homosexuals, nor could I support a homosexual organization that discriminates against persons of color. It bothers me that gay activists can beatify Gavin Newsom, the mayor of San Francisco, and ignore the havoc heís wreaked on the poor and persons of color.

Newsom came to power last year by appealing to the racism, self-hatred, and classism of San Franciscoís gay elite. He spewed the piss-poor philosophy that gay marriage will be the great equalizer and many in the gay community fell for it. Under his watch, poverty has been criminalized; gay teens and homeless AIDS sufferers have been thrown in jail. Persons of color are being thrown in the streets due to rising rents because of gentrification. The members of the gay elite said and did nothing; if anything, they applauded his efforts. Newsom pushed the gay marriage issue to reward his rich supporters (most poor gays and persons of color had the good sense to vote for Matt Gonzalez, his Green opponent) and build a name for himself.

Iím not against gay marriage; I question the motives of the persons who are pushing the issue in this harsh political climate. If it is unsuccessful, the backlash will be severe and the gains made by the gay community these past 30 years could be overturned. People like you and me will suffer the most. If that couple in the picture in THE ADVOCATE can take off work on short notice, pay $1,500 to fly to San Francisco and pay $82 for a worthless piece of paper, I'm sure they have enough money to withstand the conservative backlash against the gay community.

A campaign for gay marriage will not be successful until this community gets rid of the racist, classist, and elitist leadership that organize agendas without the input of the grassroots. Secondly, we must learn to pick our battles; there is a time to strike and a time to parry. Thirdly, and most importantly, why donít we fight for policies that will not only help the gay community but society at large? A single payer health care system would benefit gays and straights, as would subsidized housing or a free undergraduate education. At this point, gay marriage is little more than a wedge issue to rev up the right-wing base to demolish Kerry in 2004.

--T.D. Coleman
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#71 Jan 30, 2012
Just posted, doesn't appear, trying again (it's from a webpage found online):

African-American gays on marriage, assimilation
Memphis, Tenn.--Iíve never been a fan of THE ADVOCATE. It perpetuates the stereotype that all homosexuals are shallow, pro-corporate, bubble-gum, upper middle class, and white. The first article I read in THE ADVOCATE was about gay marriage. In true ADVOCATE style, the article said nothing, but the accompanying picture said it all. The picture featured a gay male couple, obviously well off, well groomed, color coordinated, and, of course, white; matching Gaybies strapped to their tummies, kissing after engaging in the Bonds of Matrimony. The All-American couple.

This picture exemplifies a growing schism in the gay community between the assimilationists, who want to integrate into "mainstream" (read: white middle-class heterosexual) American society at all costs, and the liberationists, who want to facilitate and maintain a distinct gay cultural identity.

How can our self-appointed gay leaders tout same sex marriage and ignore issues that are far more pressing? While gay marriage will benefit gay couples, it will not help the single gay who is about to be thrown out of his home because he is too sick to work. It will not help the single lesbian who is suffering from breast cancer and cannot undergo chemotherapy or buy medication because she has no insurance. It wonít help the homeless gay youth who was thrown out on the streets because his father found out that she was gay.

As a member of two minority groups, it is difficult for me to support an individual or group that supports one part of my being and castigates the other. I cannot support a Black group that discriminates against homosexuals, nor could I support a homosexual organization that discriminates against persons of color. It bothers me that gay activists can beatify Gavin Newsom, the mayor of San Francisco, and ignore the havoc heís wreaked on the poor and persons of color.

Newsom came to power last year by appealing to the racism, self-hatred, and classism of San Franciscoís gay elite. He spewed the piss-poor philosophy that gay marriage will be the great equalizer and many in the gay community fell for it. Under his watch, poverty has been criminalized; gay teens and homeless AIDS sufferers have been thrown in jail. Persons of color are being thrown in the streets due to rising rents because of gentrification. The members of the gay elite said and did nothing; if anything, they applauded his efforts. Newsom pushed the gay marriage issue to reward his rich supporters (most poor gays and persons of color had the good sense to vote for Matt Gonzalez, his Green opponent) and build a name for himself.

Iím not against gay marriage; I question the motives of the persons who are pushing the issue in this harsh political climate. If it is unsuccessful, the backlash will be severe and the gains made by the gay community these past 30 years could be overturned. People like you and me will suffer the most. If that couple in the picture in THE ADVOCATE can take off work on short notice, pay $1,500 to fly to San Francisco and pay $82 for a worthless piece of paper, I'm sure they have enough money to withstand the conservative backlash against the gay community.

A campaign for gay marriage will not be successful until this community gets rid of the racist, classist, and elitist leadership that organize agendas without the input of the grassroots. Secondly, we must learn to pick our battles; there is a time to strike and a time to parry. Thirdly, and most importantly, why donít we fight for policies that will not only help the gay community but society at large? A single payer health care system would benefit gays and straights, as would subsidized housing or a free undergraduate education. At this point, gay marriage is little more than a wedge issue to rev up the right-wing base to demolish Kerry in 2004.

--T.D. Coleman
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#72 Jan 30, 2012
MSNBC story todayabout actress sharing of her bi-sexuality (snippet):

"My recent comments in The New York Times were about me and my personal story of being gay," Nixon told the Advocate. "I believe we all have different ways we came to the gay community and we can't and shouldn't be pigeon-holed into one cultural narrative which can be uninclusive and disempowering. However, to the extent that anyone wishes to interpret my words in a strictly legal context I would like to clarify:

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"While I don't often use the word, the technically precise term for my orientation is bisexual. I believe bisexuality is not a choice, it is a fact. What I have 'chosen' is to be in a gay relationship.

"As I said in the Times and will say again here, I do, however, believe that most members of our community -- as well as the majority of heterosexuals -- cannot and do not choose the gender of the persons with whom they seek to have intimate relationships because, unlike me, they are only attracted to one sex.

"Our community is not a monolith, thank goodness, any more than America itself is. I look forward to and
__________

That's interesting. I've been saying something smilar for some time (except it's hard to know whether most are predominately gay or straight or if most are to some degree bi-sexual too; you can only discern for yourself really, and even then it's anyone's guess if you happen to be anywhere near the 50-50 mark [half gay; half hetero]). That I'll probably always be bi-sexual but decided to go solely with hetero back in 1997. That's been fine ever since except nobody wants to come near me due to my buffalo breath. So I watch YouTube videos of female singers from the 1960's and celebrate my hetero-ness (a perpetual party of one). Just kidding--that mkaes it sound like I view the vids for sensual satisfaction but rather am careful to keep them tame; simply love the singers and that era.
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#73 Jan 31, 2012
About that website post above by "T.D. Coleman":

I agree with much, especially about Newsome (and San Francisco Chronicle) attacking/inciting hatred against the poor. But there may be "hedging" within that post as well: "Assimilationists" don't want to integrate into mainstream society--that's a complete misnomer.

Definition of ASSIMILATION

3: change of a sound in speech so that it becomes identical with or similar to a neighboring sound <the usual assimilation of \z\ to \sh\ in the phrase his shoe>
4: the process of receiving new facts or of responding to new situations in conformity with what is already available to consciousness

Assimilation and integration are antithetical.
Bruce Deile

Bellingham, WA

#74 Jan 31, 2012
Definition of INTEGRATION
1: the act or process or an instance of integrating: as a : incorporation as equals into society or an organization of individuals of different groups (as races) b : coordination of mental processes into a normal effective personality or with the individual's environment
2a : the operation of finding a function whose differential is known b : the operation of solving a differential equation

: "...whose differential is known"
Richard Woehler

Bellingham, WA

#77 May 2, 2012
I see no adequate justification to restrict a minority group from taking advantage of a government program based on sexuality. Either make it universally accessible or limit the government's involvement to solely civil unions no matter the sex of the partners.
Tony

Phoenix, AZ

#78 Aug 11, 2012
Marriage is a legally binding contract between one man and one woman in order to protect the woman and their current and future children financially. It has absolutely nothing to do with two men, two women, or two animals.
Mary Ann
#79 Aug 16, 2012
Marriage is the union of one man and one woman for the purpose of protecting their children legally and financially.

Since there is no procreation between two men or between two women, there is no marriage contract. However, gays can sign legal documents that allow visitation rights if they're in hospice.

No child should be placed in a homosexual house because of the risk of sexual abuse. There are many well known criminal cases where gay men have molested boys in their houses. John Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer and Henry Lee Lucas are just a few cases of gay men who raped and murdered boys. I wouldn't want to endanger any child with gay men, would you?
Elena Robertson

Rowland Heights, CA

#80 Dec 11, 2012
I love love
marty

Snohomish, WA

#81 Mar 2, 2014
population control

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