Drinking Age Debate - Chambersburg, PA

Discuss the national Drinking Age debate in Chambersburg, PA.

Should the U.S. lower the drinking age to 18?

Chambersburg says 18
Yes, 18 is better.
 
7
No, 21 is fine.
 
6

Vote now in Chambersburg:

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Dudicus

Newville, PA

#41 Jan 30, 2012
Effington wrote:
<quoted text>
That's one of many common-sense indications of Biblical wine and beer having alcohol. Actual scientific study of clay jars from the time period prove that wine and beer - with real alcohol - was consumed regularly during this time period and millenia (going back over 6000 years) before. In fact, it was recently discovered that when the pyramids were built - some 2000 years before before Christ (common era)- they were not built by slaves, but by workers fairly paid for their work with beer. That's real beer, actual fermented grain beverages.
Wine was much more common during this period and throughout Biblical history in the Mediterranean and Middle Eastern regions. Grapes were readily available, but would spoil quickly when stored or transported, in fruit or juice form. The juice during this period would actually ferment spontaneously (from naturally occurring yeast on the grapes themselves, as yeast wasn't discovered until Louis Pasteur came along in the late 19th century). Many people during this period may not have even realized that they were drinking a product with alcohol.
The newly fermented wine's alcohol content would prevent spoilage and was absolutely crucial to the survival of many people during a time where it wasn't even understood that drinking the water you and your livestock defecated in made you sick.
Winemaking was a crucial part of the Roman Empire's economy and survival - contemporary to Jesus' time and long before and after. The term "wine" (or "vino" in Latin) referred specifically to fermented grape juice with alcohol. It was not a misunderstanding or mis-interpretation - vino was wine, and wine had alcohol and EVERYONE drank it. It wasn't a matter of choice, there was no Pepsi - it was consumed regularly as a matter of everyday survival.
Wine is also such an important part of religions that grew during this period, particularly Christianity and Judaism. For thousands of years, wine has been a central tenant of Christ and Christianity, both to Protestants and Catholics.
It is an extremely modern perspective - perhaps just the last century or less - where prohibitionist church leaders (primarily Baptist) decided they didn't like people drinking, so they made up the story about Biblical wine not having alcohol. It made their tee totaling sermons hold more weight rather than field questions about Jesus turning water into wine. And since their mindless sheep never question a thing about what they're told in church, the fake perception that Biblical wine was grape juice became accepted among those who just wish it was true badly enough, that they believe it.
The fact is... Jesus drank, the disciples drank, and it was ok. I'm just wondering if any stories were left out about one of them Camel Riding under the Influence (CRUI).
Well stated. I didn't see your post before I posted.
Rock Hoover

Chambersburg, PA

#42 Feb 1, 2012
And of course the age old question is how much is too much? I guess it depends on who you ask.
Rock Hoover

Chambersburg, PA

#43 Feb 1, 2012
MADD Member wrote:
I have read in the scriptures what awaits those who yearn for alcoholic blood lust. It is written that the fires of hell roar with extreme fury and the Satan pours eternal grain alcohol down the throats of those who have been sent there to serve him.
LOL

I don't care to have my liver pickled by pure grain, but if the Satan wants to pour some Miller Lite down my throat I might stop by and visit for awhile. As the fires roar with fury!!

Funny post.
ex boozer

Shippensburg, PA

#44 Feb 3, 2012
Actually 21 is too young
Lisa

Shippensburg, PA

#45 Feb 3, 2012
This is an interesting topic. I grew up in the late 60's early 70's. A lot of my class mates were being drafted to Viet Nam, yet they could not go into a bar to get a beer. I found that to be unfair.

Fast forward to many years later. I am now in my 50's. I feel 18 is too young to drink. Yet the U.S. will send an 18 year old off to war.

A touchy subject and one wonders what is the right answer.

It could just come down to the maturity of the individual.

I know some of you say it depends on how one is raised. On one hand that is correct but the other hand it's not correct. I had friends that were permitted to have wine with dinner when they were under age. Some were okay with it, some abused it. That's why I feel it's a maturity issue with the individual.

On the other hand, if someone is wearing the uniform of the United States....let them drink all they want!
Lisa

Shippensburg, PA

#46 Feb 3, 2012
Just a little info about the subject.

I had worked in an Italian restaurant in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

The owners were born in Italy. Their youngest daughter was around 7 years old. She had a glass of wine with all of her meals except breakfast.

The other children were in their late teens and early 20's and were raised the same way. None of them seemed to have a problem with alcohol abuse.

So again, I guess it really boils down to the individual.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#47 Feb 6, 2012
Lisa wrote:
Just a little info about the subject.
I had worked in an Italian restaurant in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
The owners were born in Italy. Their youngest daughter was around 7 years old. She had a glass of wine with all of her meals except breakfast.
The other children were in their late teens and early 20's and were raised the same way. None of them seemed to have a problem with alcohol abuse.
So again, I guess it really boils down to the individual.
Wine is part of the culture of Italy and France. Children drink it in small quantities with meals since that is the custom. They're not drinking much, but they are learning to enjoy alcohol responsibly with responsible adults. While 7 may even be a little young for those countries, different regions feel differently on the subject.

But it doesn't really boil down to the individual - if it did, it wouldn't be so steadfastly illegal. Now most states do have a provision that allows for the consumption of alcohol by minors in private in the presence of a parent or guardian. Others allow it for religious or medical purposes. Ten states even allow minors to consume in public with parental consent.

Pennsylvania is one of the 10 states that have no exceptions. That means that if you want to allow your teenager to have a glass of wine with dinner, that's illegal. PA has lots of other stupid alcohol laws (mainly thanks to Governor Pinchot's prohibitionist attitude) but that's for another discussion.

I'm personally surprised since there is a large Italian population living in and around Philadelphia. Since the consumption of wine is part of both Italian culture and the Catholic religion, you'd think there'd be an exception for it.

Well, no one's going to tell me how to raise my children. I will most certainly allow my teenager to drink in small amounts, with dinner, and learn how to enjoy it responsibly. And when he/she goes off to college, the temptation to binge drink due to an unfamiliarity with alcohol will not be so great.

You don't have to take my word for it though - numerous studies indicate that the 21 drinking age is causing more problems than it solves.

Since: Oct 08

Pennsylvania

#48 Feb 7, 2012
I remember being in the military only able to get beer but not hard liquor because I was under 21~~~but I was able to be enlisted and get killed for the USA so I thought the law was a little screwed up...not that I had any problem getting someone else to get some Jim Beam, just saying that there was some inconsistency there..
MADD Member

Chambersburg, PA

#49 Feb 8, 2012
Lisa wrote:
Just a little info about the subject.

I had worked in an Italian restaurant in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

The owners were born in Italy. Their youngest daughter was around 7 years old. She had a glass of wine with all of her meals except breakfast.

The other children were in their late teens and early 20's and were raised the same way. None of them seemed to have a problem with alcohol abuse.

So again, I guess it really boils down to the individual.
By the age of 30 these children will spend most nights passed out face down on the floor of their single room apartment lit only by a flickering light hanging from the ceiling. I am appalled and disgusted that the parents of these children are introducing them to the hellacious prison that is alcohol consumption.

We can only hope that these kids never get behind the wheel of a car while heavily intoxicated. This will make them road terrorists and they could destroy innocent lives as they drive themselves to the depths of hell where the Satan will await them with pure alcohol.
MADD Member

Chambersburg, PA

#50 Feb 8, 2012
@effington/ your comments are disgusting and I hope you feel like a real renegade when your being hauled off to prison for providing alcohol to minors. I guess you'll also be one of those "cool" parents who host teenage drinking parties. I feel very sorry for you and would like to give you the opportunity to repent, seek forgiveness, and save yourself from the alcohol hell.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#51 Feb 11, 2012
MADD Member wrote:
@effington/ your comments are disgusting and I hope you feel like a real renegade when your being hauled off to prison for providing alcohol to minors. I guess you'll also be one of those "cool" parents who host teenage drinking parties. I feel very sorry for you and would like to give you the opportunity to repent, seek forgiveness, and save yourself from the alcohol hell.
It sounds like you don't feel sorry for me or want to give me the opportunity to "repent," you just want to put me down - or does capping your rant off with that sentence make it ok? I like how you clearly know everything about me without knowing me at all. I admire your psychic abilities. No one is getting hauled off to jail - I will be a responsible parent teaching responsibility. Sticking your head in the sand is the exact opposite.

Now if you're a teetotaler and against drinking for one reason or another, that's great and I respect that. I don't tell you how to raise your kids. But drinking is legal in this country, and it's legality isn't the problem - it's the irresponsibility of those who abuse it that is the problem.

A lot of teenagers are going to drink (and have sex, and smoke a joint, etc.)- that's a fact and one that no amount of laws or strict parenting can change. So instead of sticking my head in the sand, I intend to be an active part of my kids' lives and teach them about taking responsibility for their actions.

While some hillbilly parents might host "teenage drinking parties," I serious doubt it's the kind of epidemic your billboards all over Franklin County would have us think it is.

That's the problem with MADD - nothing you do has any basis in reality or facts, it's all over-reaction and over-legislation.
Cindy

Greencastle, PA

#53 Feb 11, 2012
MADD Member wrote:
<quoted text>By the age of 30 these children will spend most nights passed out face down on the floor of their single room apartment lit only by a flickering light hanging from the ceiling. I am appalled and disgusted that the parents of these children are introducing them to the hellacious prison that is alcohol consumption.
We can only hope that these kids never get behind the wheel of a car while heavily intoxicated. This will make them road terrorists and they could destroy innocent lives as they drive themselves to the depths of hell where the Satan will await them with pure alcohol.
It's not just kids behind the wheel. There are plenty of adults that are guilty of drunk driving.
I think the bottom line is drinking is a problem for ALL ages. I don't know if there is an answer for it. You can police and patrol all you want, it still doesn't seem to make much difference.

I believe responsibility starts at home with proper guidence. It's not a guarantee, but it's being a responsible parent and at least going down the right road of parenting. All you can do is hope what you taught your children has sunk in.
Bart Daily

Chambersburg, PA

#54 Feb 17, 2012
MADD member wrote:
Drinking should be outlawed and you awful people who drink should be afraid of what awaits you at the gates of hell.
I imagine we will be greated with a bottle of scotch and a cigar upon our arrival at the gates you speak of. I mean your comment is so justified seeing how the bible is full of alcohol references such as Jesus drinking wine, that's a good one.

Another religious fanatic on the loose...No better then the fanatics in Arabic religion.
Bart Daily

Chambersburg, PA

#55 Feb 17, 2012
MADD Member wrote:
<quoted text>By the age of 30 these children will spend most nights passed out face down on the floor of their single room apartment lit only by a flickering light hanging from the ceiling. I am appalled and disgusted that the parents of these children are introducing them to the hellacious prison that is alcohol consumption.
We can only hope that these kids never get behind the wheel of a car while heavily intoxicated. This will make them road terrorists and they could destroy innocent lives as they drive themselves to the depths of hell where the Satan will await them with pure alcohol.
Oh look Mommy, a religious fanatic! Can we take it home?
Bart Daily

Chambersburg, PA

#56 Feb 17, 2012
MADD Member wrote:
@effington/ your comments are disgusting and I hope you feel like a real renegade when your being hauled off to prison for providing alcohol to minors. I guess you'll also be one of those "cool" parents who host teenage drinking parties. I feel very sorry for you and would like to give you the opportunity to repent, seek forgiveness, and save yourself from the alcohol hell.
Jesus must have been sent to hell then! Go read your ancient comic book and spread your fanaticism elsewhere!

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#57 Feb 25, 2012
Bart Daily wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus must have been sent to hell then! Go read your ancient comic book and spread your fanaticism elsewhere!
Jesus turned water into grape juice, duh.

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