Civil Unions Debate - Hinton, WV

Discuss the national Civil Unions debate in Hinton, WV.

Are Civil Unions Enough?

Hinton thinks marriage is between a man and a woman
Marriage is bet...
 
21
No, gay marriag...
 
20
Yes, that's plenty
 
3
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happy daze

Oak Hill, WV

#1 Jan 15, 2012
partial human rights are not enough what if segregation still existed outright in the south. we have a long way to go yet in both areas
J Lilly

Parkersburg, WV

#2 Jan 15, 2012
Segregation and same sex marriage is not the same concept. Same sex marriage is not a human right, it’s a human perversion. What you do in your bedroom is your business but I don’t what to see it or hear about it.
Right

Alum Creek, WV

#3 Jan 17, 2012
J Lilly wrote:
Segregation and same sex marriage is not the same concept. Same sex marriage is not a human right, it’s a human perversion. What you do in your bedroom is your business but I don’t what to see it or hear about it.
If gays had the right to get married you would no longer see or hear about this nonsense in the news.

Level 2

Since: Nov 09

Hinton

#4 Jan 20, 2012
Religious nut bags have the right to have affairs on their wives, repeatedly, even when some of them are diagnosed with crippling diseases, and call it a marriage... but god forbid two people that actually love each other want to get married, then it's all crazy and perversion.

Either everyone should be able to get married, or no one should. It's as simple as that. Anything else is a denial of full human rights, and idiotic.
J Lilly

Parkersburg, WV

#5 Jan 21, 2012
People do wrong but this does not validate your argument. Two wrongs does not make a right.
bigdeal

Ghent, WV

#6 Feb 8, 2012
I can't for the life of me understand what the big deal with gay marriage is. Please explain it to me for I am not as bright as some of the bigoted folks. My questions are:
How does gay marriage negatively effect your life?
Also without using outdated books how is homosexuality wrong?
J Lilly

Parkersburg, WV

#7 Feb 8, 2012
Marriage - The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

That is the definition of marriage. Anything else is perversion.

Perversion - Perversion is a concept describing those types of human behavior that are excessive or deviated from what is considered to be orthodox or normal.

Words have definitions for a reason. It keeps anyone on the same page. Do you call a duck a chicken or a dog a cat?

Marriage has had the same definition for countless thousands of years. Why should a few individuals have a right to change it now? There is no good reason to do this.

Bigoted - Obstinately convinced of the superiority or correctness of one's own opinions and prejudiced against those who hold different opinions.

Ironically using the definition of bigoted you are also bigoted. Anyone that holds an opinion strongly is bigoted or prejudiced.
evolve

Ghent, WV

#8 Feb 9, 2012
J Lilly wrote:
Marriage - The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
That is the definition of marriage. Anything else is perversion.
Perversion - Perversion is a concept describing those types of human behavior that are excessive or deviated from what is considered to be orthodox or normal.
Words have definitions for a reason. It keeps anyone on the same page. Do you call a duck a chicken or a dog a cat?
Marriage has had the same definition for countless thousands of years. Why should a few individuals have a right to change it now? There is no good reason to do this.
Bigoted - Obstinately convinced of the superiority or correctness of one's own opinions and prejudiced against those who hold different opinions.
Ironically using the definition of bigoted you are also bigoted. Anyone that holds an opinion strongly is bigoted or prejudiced.
You are saying that if a concept is defined a certain way, it should never be changed. That is dumb. Think about the word "equality". There was a time that neither the black man nor any woman had the right to vote. Society realized the error and changed for the better. The textbook definition of "equality" did not change but our interpretation of it did change and thank God for that. Move forward man!
1 post removed
J Lilly

Parkersburg, WV

#10 Feb 9, 2012
“The textbook definition of "equality" did not change but our interpretation of it did change”

You are right and wrong on this issue. Fact is that not all men could vote in the past. There were restrictions such as land ownership. Based on state lived in and status Women had the vote before country wide suffrage. Felons don’t have the right to vote still. Should we change the definition for them? Blacks and Women were deemed to be lesser people and that is obviously wrong. I’m part Cherokee and we know how Native Americans were treated. Gays can live together and do whatever they want in their bedroom just like the rest of us. What they seek is the stamp of normalcy and it is not normal. Homosapiens take mates of opposite gender like other mammals. Annelids (earthworms) have both male and female organs that is their normal. In my opinion there is no good reason to change (interpret) the normal to abnormal. The 2000 census says 2% of Men and Women are gay. Do we interpret a perfectly good definition away for 2%? What if it was determined that 2% of US citizens thought stealing was ok, do we strike down all the laws concerning theft? There should be some constants and I think this is one of them.
bigdeal

Ghent, WV

#11 Feb 9, 2012
So 2% of the population had the nerve to say on a census they are gay. The number is probably much higher than that. There have always been gay people and it has always made people squeemish. The difference is that the barbarians who wrote the Bible thought it ok to stone them. Today they just want to be married.

Again you never answered how giving them the right to marry would adversely effect your life. And you really didn't say anything about homosexuality being wrong other than to say that you find it perverse. See the above paragraph.

I would say that it is fairly normal for people to be gay and arguably people are born gay.

50 or 60 years ago it is likely that you would've thought blacks to be lesser.

And yes I am very much bigoted against people who use dusty old books to justify their prejudice.
J Lilly

Parkersburg, WV

#12 Feb 9, 2012
“So 2% of the population had the nerve to say on a census they are gay.”

The nerve? I can’t care what people put on the census.

“Again you never answered how giving them the right to marry would adversely effect your life. And you really didn't say anything about homosexuality being wrong other than to say that you find it perverse. See the above paragraph.”

The effect on my life has no bearing, I work on principle. Homosexuality as defined is erotic activity with another of the same sex. I’ve already covered the biologic norms for Homosapiens and homosexuality falls well outside the norms hence wrong and perversion. In an earlier post I also said.“What you do in your bedroom is your business but I don’t what to see it or hear about it.”

Principle - A fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

“I would say that it is fairly normal for people to be gay and arguably people are born gay.”

I agree. They are born gay but it is not normal. That fact does not afford them special rights. If you are 5 foot tall and you have dreams of the NBA you are deluded. I’m 5’8” I would be passed over as well.(But I want to play, It’s not fair, there should be a law, I’m being excluded, you’re all height bigots. Wha Wha Wha.) You will not hear that from me. I’m not lesser because I’m of average height. I have other talents. I should be excluded from the NBA. I don’t fit the mold and Marriage is for a Man and Woman. Strangely marriage is not a right for anyone; it is controlled for the state. If you don’t jump through their hoops you can’t be legally married.

“50 or 60 years ago it is likely that you would've thought blacks to be lesser.”

Sixty years ago I was not on the scene. From my earlier post.(“Blacks and Women were deemed to be lesser people and that is obviously wrong.”) Obviously you didn’t read my posts carefully. In addition I voted for Alan Keyes in the presidential primaries in 2008, he is a black man with an impressive career. He as more accomplishments than you or I.

“And yes I am very much bigoted against people who use dusty old books to justify their prejudice.”

You mean the dictionary, maybe history or biology books? Oh I don’t know maybe (the bible). I haven’t mentioned it at all. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” are the rights afforded to us. You don’t need a marriage certificate to achieve these goals. I have a certificate but it doesn't change who I am. Early in the country's history when judges and preachers where not around people just said I want you and you want me we are married. There was no paper work but the marriages were honored.I’m sure you still believe what you believe and I won’t budge. I’ve had my say and I’m done.
big deal

Ghent, WV

#13 Feb 10, 2012
I am a bigot but it's against people with stupid beliefs (such as yourself), you are bigoted against people for the way they are born.

Sure you weren't around 60 years ago but you are a bigot today and I can infer that you would've been a bigot then. I did read your post carefully and as for Alan Keyes he disowned his own daughter for being a lesbian. Now that is true ahole behavior. It's funny to me that he is named after a tool.

What if people thought that short men such as yourself were abnormal.

I would say that 2% of the population agree that stealing is ok. 1% of them are criminals and the other 1% are well the 1% of American's that are super rich. And guess what they have laws that make it ok to steal from you and I.

Lastly I don't keep beliefs. Beliefs are unchanging and typically illogical. I have knowledge and or ideas. People believe in things that aren't real like the tooth fairy and santa clause or...well I think you get the idea.
Buckwheat

Waldorf, MD

#14 Feb 10, 2012
big deal wrote:
I am a bigot but it's against people with stupid beliefs (such as yourself), you are bigoted against people for the way they are born.
Sure you weren't around 60 years ago but you are a bigot today and I can infer that you would've been a bigot then. I did read your post carefully and as for Alan Keyes he disowned his own daughter for being a lesbian. Now that is true ahole behavior. It's funny to me that he is named after a tool.
What if people thought that short men such as yourself were abnormal.
I would say that 2% of the population agree that stealing is ok. 1% of them are criminals and the other 1% are well the 1% of American's that are super rich. And guess what they have laws that make it ok to steal from you and I.
Lastly I don't keep beliefs. Beliefs are unchanging and typically illogical. I have knowledge and or ideas. People believe in things that aren't real like the tooth fairy and santa clause or...well I think you get the idea.
I'm not a bigot,I understand it a law against nature.And you all can't help being a freak of nature.But that does not mean that it has to be thought to the young ones, That it is normal.Any man that can get excited looking at a hairy poop shoot,Well just keep it the H@ll away from me.
J Lilly

Parkersburg, WV

#15 Feb 10, 2012
"I am a bigot but it's against people with stupid beliefs (such as yourself), you are bigoted against people for the way they are born."

I've said I don't believe they have a right to marry and I don't agree with their lifestyle. I also said what they do in their bedroom is their business. In so many words that is all I've said. My ideas are stupid but you're ideas are ok. I see, so anyone that does not agree with you is stupid. You have a very high opinion of yourself and others (not so much).
Your MO is to emote and call names and insult others when challenged. You are the typical liberal.

“What if people thought that short men such as yourself were abnormal.”

I’m in the average height range for a man of my age. My younger brother is 6’2. I don’t see being that tall an advantage. My height does not bother me at all.

“The 1% of American's that are super rich. And guess what they have laws that make it ok to steal from you and I.”

I reckon you have proof to back up that statement. What are these laws? People that make laws are elected to office from both parties and most are 1% ers. Taxes are the biggest theft from the people of the US. They waste billions and still want more.

“Lastly I don't keep beliefs.”

Are you telling me you may change your mind and come to my way of thinking? Some how I doubt that.

“Beliefs are unchanging and typically illogical.”

I don’t see this as a good thing. Ya know I don’t think putting my hand in fire will hurt me anymore. That is a changed idea, illogical and wrong. I’ve decided my wife won't mind if I cheat on her. That is a changed idea, illogical and very wrong. Some change is ok but a lot is not. The moral fiber of the county is eroding away. We have become Rome and it doesn’t bode well for the future of the country.

“People believe in things that aren't real like the tooth fairy and santa clause or...well I think you get the idea.”

Those people are called children. They can’t really help it, their parents lie to them about such things. At some point they will grow up we can hope.
older and wiser

Elkton, VA

#16 Feb 11, 2012
J Lilly....you sound like a very intelligent and fair-minded man. You make excellent points and I agree with you completely. My wonderful husband of 52 years used to be a strong democrat; after paying attention and watching what is going on, he now is a strong independant who most always votes republican. He doesn't recognize the democrat party of today. His Christian principles won't allow him to vote for what he believes is morally bankrupt. Non-believers scoff at it, but God is the only thing that can save this country, and we should all be asking for His mercy. The left has led this nation down a "rosy path",but the rosy glow is from the gates of Hell.

Level 9

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#17 Mar 20, 2012
To Older and wiser - If I had a prop I'd give it to you. You brought up some very true statements. My father was a farmer and was a Democrat all his life. However, like you said, the Party he knew is not comparable to what we see today. But then, neither is the GOP the same. It just hasn't degenerated so far.
The Bible is part of history, which one person said is antiquated. That doesn't not make it wrong. Only people who are ignorant of that part of history don't want to recognize it as truth. Sodom and Gomarrah (sp) were distroyed because of homosexuality. God does not approve. That is fact and history.
Since God will have the last word on where you spend eternity - it would be smart to follow his commandments. Denying that there is a God will not exempt you.
Faith

United States

#18 Mar 21, 2012
I don't think the marriage issue has so much to do with what people do behind closed doors, as it does for legal reasons. Our government has laws in place specifically for married couples,(survivor benefits, tax breaks, custodial issues if raising children, next of kin, medical power of attorney...) therefor it's the government's responsibility to make sure it has afforded that right to everyone.
What is not normal, nor right would be a situation such as a couple having lived together, sharing all aspects of their lives (just as a husband and wife may do) for 40 years. If one were to get ill, the person that has been with them through the years has no say as to what treatment they do or do not receive, but a blood relative that hasn't spoken to this person in those 40 years can come in and make all the decisions.
Not being gay, I never paid much attention to this question, then I saw an episode of ER similar to the scenerio above. It was heartbreaking to watch. Noone, gay or straight should be written off as insignificant when they've shared their lives with someone.
And just to point out. I was taught that Sodom and Ghomorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality, but because of all the 'perverse' and 'immoral' things ...excesses of food, alcohol, vanity, sloth, prostitution (sex of all kinds).

Level 9

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#19 Mar 21, 2012
True. And I believe the story went something like - Lot was a righteous man and had some angels visiting his home. At night the homosexuals came and wanted the angels because they were MEN. Lot offered his daughters, knowing they didn't want women.
Buckwheat

Indian Head, MD

#20 Mar 21, 2012
J Lilly wrote:
"I am a bigot but it's against people with stupid beliefs (such as yourself), you are bigoted against people for the way they are born."
I've said I don't believe they have a right to marry and I don't agree with their lifestyle. I also said what they do in their bedroom is their business. In so many words that is all I've said. My ideas are stupid but you're ideas are ok. I see, so anyone that does not agree with you is stupid. You have a very high opinion of yourself and others (not so much).
Your MO is to emote and call names and insult others when challenged. You are the typical liberal.
“What if people thought that short men such as yourself were abnormal.”
I’m in the average height range for a man of my age. My younger brother is 6’2. I don’t see being that tall an advantage. My height does not bother me at all.
“The 1% of American's that are super rich. And guess what they have laws that make it ok to steal from you and I.”
I reckon you have proof to back up that statement. What are these laws? People that make laws are elected to office from both parties and most are 1% ers. Taxes are the biggest theft from the people of the US. They waste billions and still want more.
“Lastly I don't keep beliefs.”
Are you telling me you may change your mind and come to my way of thinking? Some how I doubt that.
“Beliefs are unchanging and typically illogical.”
I don’t see this as a good thing. Ya know I don’t think putting my hand in fire will hurt me anymore. That is a changed idea, illogical and wrong. I’ve decided my wife won't mind if I cheat on her. That is a changed idea, illogical and very wrong. Some change is ok but a lot is not. The moral fiber of the county is eroding away. We have become Rome and it doesn’t bode well for the future of the country.
“People believe in things that aren't real like the tooth fairy and santa clause or...well I think you get the idea.”
Those people are called children. They can’t really help it, their parents lie to them about such things. At some point they will grow up we can hope.
When u said """whatI also said what they do in their bedroom is their business""".Tha t's the statement,That I agree with 100%.But when american kids are tough in school,That it is normal to have two fathers.And there is nothing wrong with it.At that point it is in the wide open.Its no longer a bedroom thing.And shoved in our childrens faces.And while we are at it,Lets tell them its not proper to pray in that same school.What other fine examples are we going to set for them.
Faith

United States

#21 Mar 21, 2012
My daughter has been told in school by teachers that "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". She has friends that are gay, and has been further told that God hates gays, and that they (her friends) will all go to hell because of it. I have a HUGE problem with that. I don't think this should be discussed in school, unless the teacher can give an unbiased opinion, "I believe being gay is wrong because ____, but other people believe it's OK to be gay because ____."
Opinions on this and everything else differ widely. What people need to learn is that just because it's their opinion, doesn't make it right or true. If you don't think there should be same sex marriages, fine, then don't marry someone of the same sex.

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