Armadebton Debate - Maple Heights, OH

Discuss the national Armadebton debate in Maple Heights, OH.

Who will you blame if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Maple Heights Blames Republicans
Republicans
 
2
Democrats
 
1

Voting is now closed

mapleman

Bedford, OH

#21 Aug 9, 2011
I'm not a social conservative.

Being a fiscal conservative I don't want the money wasted on needless wars Or to feed a family of seven that should have been using birth control or abortions.

The difference between Democrats and myself is I am not for entitlements for irresponsible people. If you are 17 and can't feed yourself, get an abortion. End of story.

The difference between Republicans and myself is that I am not going to fight for the rich. If we don't give the telecom companies what they want, somebody else will step into their place and do what they do for cheaper rates. We let companies hold us hostage.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#22 Aug 10, 2011
xxxrayted wrote:
Obama's first address since the downgrade of our three star rating carried the same messages as he had since he took office: keep spending. That's right, he promoted the idea of spending more on union construction workers, extending unemployment benefits and keeping as many government dependents as possible.
LOL I just looked at the ratings. The countries that are still triple star go against everything Republicans stand for. Germany. France. Austria. Netherlands. Canada. Norway. Sweden. Denmark. Finland. And so forth. LOL...

It is almost too funny. I can't believe Americans and their ability to vote against their own financial interests.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#23 Aug 10, 2011
The reason for our downgrade is because of our spending. As for tax increases, the increases on the wealthy proposed by the Democrats would only give us 70 billion a year minus what businesses and work we lose in the process. 70 billion a year next to a 14.5 trillion dollar debt is like being four months behind on your mortgage, and sending the bank $25.00 and say you accomplished something.

You say you are sick of the government pandering to these lowlifes, well so are the Republicans. We need to clean the house with these Democrats if we don't want to end up like Greece, because that's exactly the path we are on. In order to make the cart move, you need more people pulling the cart than are in it. Right now, it's the other way around.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#24 Aug 10, 2011
Like I showed. The countries with the good ratings go against everything that Republicans stand for.

The average salary in America is only $26,000 a year and that is with Americans working more hours than ever before. Compare that with how the leaders of companies have steadily increased this income.

This just proves that most Republicans are voting against their own financial interest. They are not part of the elite 1 percent and are fools to side with them.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#25 Aug 11, 2011
Do tell: how does a wealthy person change your life in a negative way? If we taxed everybody with a net worth of 10 million dollars--1 million dollars each, how does that benefit you?

I don't vote for my interest, a wealthy persons interest, or any other sector of people with certain interests. I vote for what I feel is fair for everybody in the country. That's why I'm a Republican.

The top 10% of people pay over 71% of all collected taxes in this country. That's not fair? And to be quite honest, only half of the population of our country pays actual income tax. And to say that this is wrong is voting against your own interests?

The idea of getting ahead is to leave everybody else behind. After all, if we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead, and that's why Socialism is a failure.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#26 Aug 11, 2011
You don't vote your interests? That's the problem. Who doesn't vote their interests? Only working class Republicans. The rich vote theirs. You think they care about the country? LOL

Did your ancestors care about Poland when they left there? H3ll no. They voted to leave because of what was in their best interests?

Much like how I embraced outsourcing, you need to embrace what is best for you. Your own interest. This country is nothing. You could take your money and move to Sweden and enjoy a much better life.

The working class Republicans are like slaves fighting for the south. lol
fokker313

Willoughby, OH

#27 Aug 11, 2011
No need to raise the ceiling, period, everyone is missing the point, simple math we take in over 200 billion/month debt repayment is 20 billion, that leaves 180 Billion/month to run government. hey ... here's a thought .... why not cut out the FAA$$TT and PO$$OORK in government and remember the saying of some guy named Jefferson a couple of hundred years ago: The government that governs the LEAST governs the BEST!!!
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#28 Aug 12, 2011
mapleman wrote:
You don't vote your interests? That's the problem. Who doesn't vote their interests? Only working class Republicans. The rich vote theirs. You think they care about the country? LOL
Did your ancestors care about Poland when they left there? H3ll no. They voted to leave because of what was in their best interests?
Much like how I embraced outsourcing, you need to embrace what is best for you. Your own interest. This country is nothing. You could take your money and move to Sweden and enjoy a much better life.
The working class Republicans are like slaves fighting for the south. lol
So what you're saying is millionaires and billionaires who vote Democrat vote for their best interests? Steve Jobs of Apple Computer, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, George Soros, Warren Buffet, and most of the entertainment industry such as Hollywood and music?

Voting for a politician and making a life changing decision are two different things. If I vote for my own interests, then what I am voting for is for some Democrat to take money from somebody else to give to me. Would that be a good personal decision? Yes. Would it be a good moral decision? No.

The problem is that when you become a government dependent, then you are a slave. You have to abide by their rules, regulations and demands. It's like when you hear those young adults who live with their parents complain. They don't like coming home at a certain time, they don't like their parents monitoring their recreational activities, they don't like having to watch television shows they didn't select. But how is it their friend(s) who have their own apartment not have to do these things? Because they work and support themselves.

Sure the Democrats want to keep taking money that isn't theirs. By doing so, they can create a larger dependency by using that money to provide more goodies to other people, and those other people will vote Democrat to keep them in office. The government will tell them how much they can eat, where they can live, and what they can and cannot do. That's servitude.

The conservatives are against all that. We believe that everybody should try as hard as they can so they can be independent of government. Teaching and promoting self reliance and personal responsibility is liberty.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#29 Aug 12, 2011
Keep your morality. The rich don't have morals, that's how they get rich. The rich and powerful get the little guy to live by some moral code. They get the little guy to break his back until 70. And for what? What can you enjoy at 70? Instead of traveling in their 30's and 40's when they can walk without a cane, people are waiting until retirement to live the lives they want.

The so-called people that are living in servitude live better than most Americans. They get to wake up when they want, eat better and don't waste half their lives at a job they hate.

Most Americans are not doing what they want to do in life. That must suck balls. To hate your job. To hate Mondays and to watch a clock. You say the people that are dependent on the government are in servitude, I say they are probably more happy than the average American.

And considering the average American only makes $26,000, they are not far from assistance. But the rich are getting richer.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#30 Aug 12, 2011
First off, WTF are you getting your facts from? According to THe Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average salary in the US for 2010 through 2011 is $20.90 per hour, or $43,460 per year.

http://www.ehow.com/info_7746957_average-annu...

Secondly, how does living in squalor make one happy? There are no supervisor positions on welfare. There is no seniority position on food stamps. In other words, in spite of your comfort, you will never, ever get anywhere in life, and that's a sad situation for anybody in a free country.

See, one can train an animal or human to be kept, and make them happy at the same time. But they only know the happiness they are given instead of the happiness they could have by liberty.

My tenants found a baby rabbit hiding on the basement windowsill. They captured it and put it in the basement far from predators. They feed it every day, give him water. They constructed a makeshift cage so it wouldn't get out. But no matter how good they treated this animal, it always made attempts (and successful at times) to get out of it's cage. If they gave this animal everything it could possibly have in the wild, why does it still try to escape?

When slavery was abolished, many of the slaves stayed with their masters. When the US troops rescued POW veterans in Vietnam, many didn't want to leave their cell. When we read stories about kidnappings where the young female was with their captor for several years, they found that the female eventually led a normal life going to school, meeting with friends, and not saying a word about their situation. When we let prisoners out of jail, they deliberately break the law so they can go back.

Once one breaks the spirit of a person, that person is then robbed of their liberty, and that's exactly what our government does to US citizens by providing for them.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#31 Aug 12, 2011
You actually quote those stats? LOL

Why not use real stats when you take the super-rich out of the equation?

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/wages...

Slaves stayed with their masters because of Jim Crow and they would not be hired by most whites.

I provide for government. Much of it is government waste. I am more worried about that. That has been going on since the first caveman formed a government. Government has been taxing people too much for thousands of years. You act like getting rid of entitlements would keep government honest.

I challenge you to name one period in history where a government was fair. Name one time.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#32 Aug 13, 2011
You said the "average" income. Your site states that the median income is $26,000. If that were true, our country would have seen this recession long ago.

Here are several sites that state your information is incorrect about the median income of Americans. One is the US census bureau, but they all seem to disagree with your findings, and I can't find any site that agrees with it:

http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-does-the-...

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/st...

http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-in...

Let me ask: what was unfair about our government when we first became a country? You might say slavery, but at the time, slavery was fair because every country around the world had slavery. Some still have it today.

This is not to say there was ever a perfect government. No government is perfect. But if we are to use the word "fair" then we have to ask how far we've drifted from fair. And as liberal policies take foot, we separate ourselves from fair further and further each year.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#33 Aug 13, 2011
Are we talking INDIVIDUAL income or HOUSEHOLD income? The fact is the average individual only makes $26,000 a year. Household income can be a two working people with $10/hr jobs. That would put that household around $38,000 or so.

When you were growing up two-income families were rare. When I grew up they were gaining. Now almost every home has to have two-incomes to survive. Like I said, the rich get richer.

If, and I mean IF, you decided not to be a trucker what industry could you go in right now and make more than $12/hr? Shops don't pay shyt anymore. Office jobs pay about $12/hr. Most jobs aren't paying anything. There are people with engineering degrees managing Pizza Hut. And that job pays about $40,000 a year but you work 60 hours a week.

That's another thing to take into consideration. How much time people spend at work to earn their money. Americans work now more than ever. We work way more than people in other developed countries. And as I pointed out, these countries have a better rating than we do.

Look at the classifieds. Show me where all the $20/hr jobs are. One RN making $25/hr throws off the whole curve for all the people that are assembling parts in Solon for $9/hr.

You are living in fantasy land. Talk to all the unemployed people and see what kind of pay they are being offered. Talk to the college graduates being offered $10/hr jobs. Most people would give the devil a handjob to make $20/hr

And your justification for slavery was that other places were doing it? LOL How does time change the morality of owning another human being? If it was fine then, it should be fine now. That's how people justify genocide, ethnic cleansing and slavery in the bible.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#34 Aug 13, 2011
Nobody is justifying slavery. It's just that at the time, slavery was a normal thing. Back when I was young, people would beat and sometimes kill their pets. Today you can go to jail for it. I remember getting pulled over after drinking quite a bit. The cops would follow you home or call somebody to come out and drive your vehicle home for you. Today, a DUI is a major offense to the public.

When I was a kid, a neighbor boy stole some of his brothers fireworks and shot them all off. It was about a hundred dollars worth which back then, was a lot of money. His father beat him nearly to death. And I mean he beat him for almost an entire day with a razor belt. The cops heard the screaming, and asked us WTF was going on, and we told them. The cops shrugged their shoulders and said "Well, I bet he wont' steal fireworks anymore" and drove off.

Now that's not to say that back then, driving around drunk, beating a kid while his ass is bleeding, or abusing and killing your pets was a good thing, it's just that people didn't look at those things the same way we do today. Today, those are newsworthy items.

If I didn't drive a truck, I would probably be an electrician, plumber or something like that. My cousin owns his own business, and he does very well as a remodeler. I would want to work for myself. Plumbers make real good money. Trust me, I've used them quite a few times.

Right now, I'm not getting along with my employer and am looking for another job. Even good driving jobs are hard to find. But it's not the rich getting richer, it's supply and demand. When the supply is much greater than demand, prices drop.

Sure we work a lot of hours--too many hours. But it's like my dad used to say "Money is easy to make. An idiot can make money. But money is hard to keep." Look at all the crap we spend money on today that we couldn't spend when I was a kid: cell phones, cable or satellite television, internet service, satellite radio, DVD movies at home, big screen televisions, video games, central air conditioning. We work the hours we do because we love to spend money on things we don't really need. Heck, I remember as a kid going to McDonalds. It was a big deal because we only did it a couple times a year. Today, it's a common way to have dinner or lunch.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#35 Aug 13, 2011
You will not get any argument from me about how Americans handle money. It's not how much your make, it's how much you keep.

I just see how desperate the average American is and what they will work for. That is what got me to look at the statistics more closely. There are American citizens that are working for less than minimum wage. Not illegal alines, American citizens. That's why I called bullshyt on people make $18/hr-$21/hr.

One person makes $100,000 and four make $25,000 and they then have the balls to say the average salary is $40,000. Or they use "household" income instead of individual income. Just so many ways to play the numbers when both you and I know jobs aren't paying anything. Lawyers only make $60,000 a year and that's for all the hours they put in.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#36 Aug 13, 2011
Yes, but nobody is stopping anyone from advancing themselves. True, the labor jobs today don't pay what they used to because there is less physical labor. Ever notice that when unions strike. they never do it in a poor economy? They wait until economic conditions are good, and then they ask for more money.

In my line of work, we have our share of college graduates who can't find work in their field, and that's a drag on our profession. So the companies who need drivers don't offer what they did five years ago. They are offering much less. Again, supply and demand. Plus it's one of the reasons I'm having problems with my boss. He used to be a guy who would sit down and discuss any problems you may have. If you have a problem with work today, his standard response is "if you don't like it, there's the door." That's because he could hire somebody to take my and anybody else's place for less money although he would get a less quality worker in the trade.

If we can get Obama out of office next election and replace him with a conservative, our country might be able to get on track again. This is the worst so-called recovery in the history of our country. It's over three years now and it's predicted that the forth won't be much better. But when jobs start growing again, wage will follow. Heck, during the good Bush years, I remember employers calling my home phone offering me a job for any reasonable amount of money. They were so desperate for drivers that they somehow got a list of Class A drivers and began trying to steal them from other employers. And of course, they were offering the highest possible wages.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#37 Aug 13, 2011
So wait, your boss is taking on my attitude when it comes to workers? Didn't I tell that as people realize how desperate people are, that their attitudes will change? Plus people are waking up. They realize this "good guy" way of running a business doesn't pay off. I have been preaching that for quite some time.

Will your boss get a worker that isn't as good as you? Possibly, but there are so many people desperate for work it is a chance he should be willing to take. I do it all the time.

Obama or not, I don't see jobs growing here. The global economy is a beast. What really is cost-effective to produce in America? I deal in information and even that isn't worth it unless I pay people wages they couldn't possibly live on.

God help us when telecommuting from half way around the world is even more efficient. That means more high-level jobs will be gone.

Also, who needs commercial office space when people are working from home?

I am embrace the global market, and part of that is knowing I probably will not be living stateside in my 40's.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#38 Aug 14, 2011
Where I work, 95% of the problems we employees have stem from nepotism. The owner of the company put his completely incompetent brother in charge of major operations. Ever since, the company has been going downhill. So one of the reasons the owner has this attitude is because you are criticizing his brother. And he would defend his brother if he walked in a room with five people gunned down and his brother holding the gun. His brother can do no wrong in his eyes.

In the past, he's tolerated criticism of his brother and just put up with it. In fact, two long-term drivers quit because of him. But because of the job market today, he's copped a new attitude of "get lost if you don't like it." My employer has far from the best paying jobs in town, so in the past, he always valued his loyal employees. But now that other companies are starting drivers at or below the wages he pays, he feels like he has the upper hand, which he does...... for now. He forgets the weeks and even months it took him to find competent drivers when times were good because the major carriers that paid very well sucked the driver market dry. But when things get better again, I'm sure he will relive those days.

The first step in economic recovery is to de-Bama the country. Nearly everything he has done had a negative impact on business. Commie Care is such a mess that Obama had to issue 1,400 waivers to companies that would be affected by this legislation. He placed a tax on health insurance companies which increased premiums, and placed a tax on manufacturers of medical equipment. Some medical equipment companies have already left the country because of it. But economic recovery is very possible, but it can't be done with the joker we have in the White House today, and the Democrat Senate that played the major part in the US losing our three star credit rating for the first time in the history of national credit ratings.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#39 Aug 14, 2011
I think it's bigger than Obama and you are currently going through what I always said the problem is. Business owners are just f@cked up(those of us who succeed only care about the bottom line and how to increase it). See how easy it is for shyt to roll downhill. Companies start paying lower wages because they know people are DESPERATE. Even though they may not be planning it together, it works as if they are planning it together. They then end up with more profit and the same crop of workers.

What are people gong to do? Not eat? Business owners know there are a bunch of people too prideful to apply for assistance and we use that to our advantage. Once people like myself find out people will do the same job for less, it never goes back.

Forget Obama, when was the last time your cell phone bill or cable bill went down? LOL These companies make record profits year after year. They don't hire union people. Do they ever send you a notice saying they are about to cut rates? H3ll no, they constantly raise them and their net profits at the same time. That's the problem. Greed.

These companies are making a killing and what do they do? Introduce caps so they can make more money. And people are blaming politicians? It's greed.

Some politicians(mostly Democrats) try to keep us business owners under control to make things fair for workers and consumers. But we always stay one step ahead. They do manage to make it somewhat fair, but still, it's crazy how we can treat workers.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#40 Aug 14, 2011
You can look up any cell phone company, and I would be willing to bet their profit margin is less than 15%. Cell phone companies compete against each other. Competition keeps prices down.

Don't blame politicians? Obama just instituted a free cell phone program for our so-called poor. Each phone has 250 free minutes on it for people to use for any reason. Now how do you suppose these cell phone companies are going to recoup that kind of loss? That's right, you're going to have to pay for it.

Speaking of competition, it's competition that drives wages down. One of our large customers was using a factory for a while, then abruptly switched to a larger company that was more automated. The other factory had to layoff many of it's workers, so the place is almost vacant. But now, our customer decided to go back to the old place. Why? Because they can hire new workers for less money and make the product cheaper. It's not their greed that dictated lower wages, it's their customers who buy products from them.

So you see, it's the typical Domino effect that's in play right now. Even our company had to lower rates for some of our customers to keep them using our service. My employer didn't stop giving raises because he was greedy, he had to stop giving raises because we had to work cheaper so he could give our picky customers a cheaper price.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Maple Heights Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News The Enduring Mystery Of Beverly Jarosz (Feb '08) Wed truejustice54 1,070
cuyahoga amateur radio society sucks (Jul '14) Wed Casimer Nowakowski 18
Ham Radio and prison Mar 24 WT8ORAL 1
Cat leashed on hood of car Mar 24 FUBAR 1
News Local Jews upset by Holocaust references in cam... (Jun '12) Mar 23 Denny CranesPlace 107
My bastard (WB8N) was a firefighter Mar 23 Beatrice Wayne 1
W8GC, F.C.C. Alerted. (Sep '14) Mar 21 NM Prison Guard Toby 10
Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]