Armadebton Debate - Maple Heights, OH

Discuss the national Armadebton debate in Maple Heights, OH.

Who will you blame if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Maple Heights Blames Republicans

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Bedford, OH

#1 Aug 1, 2011
Not so much the Republicans, but the Tea Bagger branch. The Republicans seem to want to compromise, obviously the Democrats are giving up things, but the Tea Bagger hardliners are just trouble.

Where were these people when Bush was starting wars and spending like a drunken sailor?

Cleveland, OH

#2 Aug 1, 2011
I believe the cost of both wars until today slightly exceed one trillion dollars. Obama spent over four times that much in less than two years.

For the first time in the history of the United States, we are about to lose our three star world credit rating. The raters wanted at least a 4 trillion dollar cut, but the Democrats and Obama would have nothing to do with that.

Where were the Republicans? We were right there complaining about the spending. We voted out the Representative that wanted a Bridge to Nowhere. We berated Bush with his spending on aid to Africa to fight A.I.D.S. We complained about the prescription drug program. We were there. Democrats are not. People like Krugman are still complaining Obama didn't spend enough.

So where are we at today? We are going to lose our credit rating which will likely increase costs for all of us slowing the economy even further. Credit cards, home mortgages, gasoline will all increase in price. Republicans simply don't have the power to stop this problem.

Bedford, OH

#3 Aug 1, 2011
Though I believe you may have complained about Bush, most Republicans didn't. That is why he got away with bloody murder and Obama has continued the trend. I am not talking about you though. I am talking about these Tea Baggers who hijacked the Tea party movement and were nowhere to be found back in 2003 when Bush was spending like a madman.

I see all this talk of entitlements but nobody is saying to cut military spending. Do we need all those military bases? It's madness. We can bomb a country back to 10,000 b.c. and we need 800 military bases? LOL Seriously, the Nazis aren't coming back, do we need 20 bases in Germany?

Cleveland, OH

#4 Aug 1, 2011
I don't know if we do or not. I was never in the military. But the US Constitution outlined what the federal government was allowed to spend money on in the Powers of Congress. One of those responsibilities was to protect the borders and the citizens of this country. Whether you agree with if or how it was done is subjective.

The real problem is that Democrats and yes, some Republicans ignored the Powers of Congress. Midnight Basketball, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Government furnaces, Cash for Clunkers, Turtle tunnels, HUD, is not in the Powers of Congress. Yet, this is what our federal government has become--a giant commune.

James Madison said it best at the annals of Congress in 1794. In a debate of foreign aid to Spain, he said "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

What Mr. Madison realized long ago is that by making the federal government the cure for all woes, we would become a nation of dependency. And this is exactly what happened. And if you look at our budget today, what do we see? We see 90% of our money spent is on benevolence.

Imagine what kind of country we would have today if we only listened to Madison's words. The debt ceiling would not even be an issue today.

Bedford, OH

#5 Aug 2, 2011
There are many experts that say our military budget is bloated. Military contracts are huge. If they are going to make cuts, then start with the military. Are the American people that slow? We have more air craft carriers than the rest of the world combined and we are in danger? Get rid of some of these bases and cut spending.

And you bring up an interesting point about foreign aid. We waste a lot of OUR money there also. Talk about entitlements.

Part of this stable society is having entitlement programs. The problem is the abuse of these programs, not that they exist. Fixing the abuse will fix the financial bleeding.

As long as the Republicans keep fighting for the billionaires and the Democrats keep fighting for people that abuse entitlement programs, everything will remain a mess. And when will the majority of both parties finally listen to the minority and cut military spending?

Cleveland, OH

#6 Aug 2, 2011
The world power should have a strong and funded military. Again, it's outlined in the Constitution. Republicans are not fighting for billionaires. Republicans fight so that all (rich or poor) are treated equally.

Now that the disaster has passed, Obama started his same old ship about taxing the wealthy down the road. The problem is that only half of the people in this country pay actual income tax. The other half gets a free ride.

Sure, they pay property tax, FICA, SS tax, Medicare and so on, but not income tax. To the Democrats, this 50% are still not paying their so-called fair share. Yet the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay over 71% of the federal income tax collected. And that's still not fair?

So when Republicans try to bring down that level, the Democrats lie by saying the Republicans are for the wealthy. Not true. The Republicans believe in all being taxed at the same percentage. WTF is wrong with that?

Entitlements are fine provided the state creates them--not the federal government. The federal government was granted the permission what they were supposed to spend money on. In other words, if the state of Ohio wanted to start a housing program, a welfare program, a food stamp program, a Medicaid program, that's fine because our state Constitution allows that. But the federal Constitution doesn't.

By design, our nation was supposed to be a group of states that acted like individual countries, and only be as one when unity was definitely needed such as the postal service, the military, roads that cross state lines and so on. They did not design this country so that the federal government can force states into compliance via financial threats. The federal government was not supposed to fund things like NPR, PBS, and Cowboy Poetry. This is what Madison and the other founders feared.

Bedford, OH

#7 Aug 3, 2011
But why are you so concerned that the wealthy are treated fair? It is not your fight. Let them fight their own battles(which they do quite well).

There is a difference between a strong military and imperialism. We are not supposed to "spread democracy" and police the world. That is not what are military budget is for. But hey, it makes the billionaires money, so none of the politicians say shjt.

Cleveland, OH

#8 Aug 3, 2011
The World Police was not a occupation we created. It just happened. And if we decide we don't want to be the world police any longer, that doesn't mean the position will disappear. It means that somebody else will take over the job. And think of who has the power to do that. Is that what you want?

This isn't the year 1850 where we can position troops at our borders and await the enemy. This is 2011 where our threats come from thousands of miles away. Some threats even electronically.

Why do I worry about the wealthy? Because the wealthy provides me with work. I don't want to see the wealthy scale back or leave our country as so many have. And trust me, I've seen it repeatedly because of taxation, unions and regulations. The wealthy contribute to charities where I would have to otherwise support in taxes. The wealthy erected all those big buildings downtown and support the stock market where my retirement money is invested. The wealthy provide me with entertainment and restaurants that allows me the option of not having to prepare a meal. But if I decide to prepare a meal, it's the wealthy that provides me with stores so I can purchase the food.

But the greatest reason I have solidarity with the wealthy is because I'm a smoker. As such, I understand what it's like to be a punching bag for the liberals. Because of my habit, I provide money for Progressive Field, Gund Arena, The Arts, Browns Stadium, The SCIPS Program and so on. I can relate to being unfairly taxed for all these useless Democrat projects. If you smoke, F-U. If you have a lot of money, F-U too. So it's less a concern of protecting people I am not one of, and more of making a stand against Democrats targeting minority groups of people who by population, cannot defend themselves. It's just wrong to take money from people to give to others simply to purchase votes.

Bedford, OH

#9 Aug 5, 2011
We are the threat. We are the country that is thousands of miles away interfering in other people's lives.

My tax dollars shouldn't go to "spread democracy" so that billionaires can make more billions by putting McDonald's and their other businesses in more countries.

And then I have to hear people cry "why do they hate us?" when people strike back. Well these same people are fine with us being half way around the world interfering in countries we shouldn't be messing with.

Don't worry about the rich. They can take care of themselves and have been doing so for thousands of years. The wealthy will be just fine. They are the ones that the politicians answer to.

That is one reason why this country is a mess. People worrying about things that don't concern them. The wealthy. Gays. Abortion. And all this comes from the Republican party. They cater to the ignorant. They play off of fears and ignorance.

Cleveland, OH

#10 Aug 5, 2011
The Republicans are the party of ignorance? Tell me, how many Republicans do you suppose occupy our prisons today? How many Republicans do you suppose you will find in the projects? How many Republicans do you suppose are on Welfare or HUD? How many Republicans do you suppose drop out of high school? How many Republicans live in the inner-city?

The truth of the matter is that it's Democrats that house the ignorant. It's one of the reasons our country is where we are at today.

But I digress. Ms. Alabama is running for Miss USA. The MC asks her what she would like to see in the world. She replies "I could like to see world peace. tee-hee." Then she clots off the stage in her high heel shoes and everybody sighs at her compassionate remark.

Sure it sounds nice. We would all like to see world peace. But that's easier said than done.

What would it take to have world peace? The answer is simple: make everybody think like us.

After all, when the people of France call us Capitalist pigs, we just give them the finger and tell them we have Freedom Fries now. When Canada criticizes us of gay marriage, we tell them to eat snow. When Mexico criticizes us about our border policies, we tell them to eat taco's. But what we don't do is grab arms and blow the hell out of each other.

War is created between two types of countries: One of an aggressive nature, and the other of a non-aggressive nature. The US of course is a non-aggressive country. In many of these cases, the captive countries are of an aggressive nature: Iraq, Iran, North Korea, the former USSR.... all of them a threat to Democracy and peaceful countries.

So the true solution to world peace is to create non-aggressive countries. This may take generations, decades, or even centuries. But it can happen with enough effort.

We will live with war. Our children and grandchildren may live with war. But if we try hard enough, we may be able to see our great grandchildren live without the fear of war. Country by country--state by state, we can outnumber aggressive countries to the point they have no choice but to give in. Only then will we have world peace. And that's not worth our time????

Bedford, OH

#11 Aug 6, 2011
Taking blacks out of the equation. The most ignorant people in this country are working class Republicans. As for welfare. Look at the tea baggers.....

But again, in college most of the educated minds are liberals. It just goes without saying that the more you learn, the more liberal you become on social issues. Fiscal conservatism is not something the Republicans have to themselves.

And please read your history books. The United States is aggressive. We have a "do unto others, but others can't do unto us" type of attitude.

This even goes back to Pearl Harbor. Our country had been interfering in Asian affairs for decades. We totally ignored their Monroe Doctrine simply because they were a different race.

Same thing with the Arabs now. They have the misfortune of having oil that the United States and Europe want. That is why they are forced to live in borders that were created for them by the west.

We are not innocent. I have no problem being a bad guy, but I hate when people act like we aren't.

Cleveland, OH

#12 Aug 6, 2011
We have every right to oil that an eastern country is willing to sell us. That's why there is OPEC. Now if we were going there and forcing them to give us oil, that's another thing.

These liberals use the excuse of oil because it's a bane of theirs. The truth is terrorists have attacked countries that have nothing to do with their involvement in the middle-east or their oil. Their religion teaches them that anybody who doesn't follow their order should be put to death. And they particularly despise countries like ours that have freedom of religion.

Liberals want to choke off our energy supply, and there has been no better leader for that than Obama. He increased energy regulations, shut down coal plants, and even the entire Gulf region. And I bet my dollar to your dime that if we had no involvement in the middle-east, and our gasoline was $8.00 per gallon, it's those middle-east American protesters who would cry the loudest. Because they don't want us to use our energy, and they don't want us to use our own.

Sure college kids are liberal because they are indoctrinated by liberal professors. But once they get out in the real world, many change their political affiliation when they experience how wrong those professors were. It's like that line in the Karate Kid movie when the boy told his instructor that the kids beating him up were bad karate students. The old man replied "There is no such thing as bad students, only bad teachers. Teacher say--student do."

Now as for dumb Tea Party or otherwise conservative people:

Bedford, OH

#13 Aug 7, 2011
Tea baggers are by definition stupid because they were nowhere to be found when Bush was running this country into the ground. They hijacked Paul's movement and made a mockery out of it. If A white male was elected instead of Obama or Hillary, then the tea bagger never come to being.

As for "their religion", it is no different than xtianity. The Bible says that women who are not virgins should be stoned to death. It also says rape is okay as long as you marry the woman. So some radicals(just like xtian nuts) interpret "their religion" a certain way and everybody should be punished?

The fact is Americans don't want to admit they enjoy the lives they do because of the f@cked up shit our country does. I don't see a problem with admitting that. We cause coups in other countries. We arm ourselves but cry if others do so. We invade countries for OUR interests but if another country acts in ITS interest they are bad.

It's like when these mothers come on tv and say their little angel was trying to turn his life around and was a good boy and then we see his record. Why are Americans in denial? Do you guys ever read books about the sh@t America has done? You don't enjoy $3.50 a gallon gas because our country plays nice.

Cleveland, OH

#14 Aug 7, 2011
So what's the option? Paying $8.00 per gallon of gasoline so we can call ourselves nice?

The liberal movement in this country has allowed these Democrat politicians to put a brake on energy production. We easily have 100 years of oil on our shores and even more off shore. But we can't do anything about it because of the F'n environmentalists.

The bigger problem is we have no refining capacity. While our population grew the last 30 years or so, we've not added one refinery in this country during that time. Add to that the dozens of different blends of gasoline pushed on us by our environmentalist friends, it slows down the refineries we have, not to mention shipping complications.

But since we can't get our own oil, we go get it from somewhere else. And when we do, we are the bad guys.

Bedford, OH

#15 Aug 7, 2011
No, the option is just admitting we are not nice. Let's just cut the shjt. Once we admit what the h3ll we are, then maybe we can get things done. We are not nice. We are half way around the world dropping bombs on people's heads because we want cheap oil. Let's call a spade a spade.

America could kill every man, woman and child in Iraq and get us 99 cent gas and I would sleep like a baby. I don't care. What gets me is hypocrisy. I hated after 9/11 all the bjtching and crying. These people aren't bjtching and crying when they are driving their huge SUVS and getting gas for $1.79, but when the problem comes back to bite you in the a$$ people are asking "why do they hate us?"

From the Indian wars to today, America has done nasty shjt. And we can still keep doing nasty shjt without our bloated military budget. Of course companies like General Electric make a killing because of our military spending. These same companies put our politicians in office. These politicians must make sure these companies keep making billions.

The ignorance in this country is amazing. People do not know history and really believe all the propaganda.

Cleveland, OH

#16 Aug 7, 2011
They don't even understand the current situations. If they did, they would realize how the CEO of GE was in bed with Obama and gang. That's right, he's an advisor to the so-called President.

This is not to mention that BP was one of the largest contributors to the Obama campaign when he ran. But nobody wants to acknowledge that. They just keep blaming Republicans for being in bed with the big guys.

Bedford, OH

#17 Aug 8, 2011
When it comes to foreign policy, Obama wasn't isn't that much different than Bush. There is a lot of money in war. Tons of it. You and I aren't in that business, but to those that are, war is great for them.

It is just not in my interest to have these ghouls rape me unchecked. I will not fight for millionaires and billionaires. That's like the lambs fighting for the rights of the wolves.

Cleveland, OH

#18 Aug 8, 2011
Well until you provide evidence that war is nothing but a money making machine, it's all hearsay. If you are worried about who is making money out of your wallet, then you better get more familiar with the global warming movement. Al Gore is the worlds first environmentalist billionaire. Many others are following.

At the beginning of the year, you won't be able to purchase light bulbs any longer. They will make them illegal to sell. After the first, you will only be able to buy those worthless energy saving light bulbs with mercury in them. Who would have thought that one day in the future, dropping a light bulb would be a Haz-Mat situation.

But that's where the politicians put their money, so now they are forcing us to buy these things. That's why every time I go grocery shopping, I pick up a few packages of bulbs. I'm stocking up. I must have about 25 packages of light bulbs in all different wattages. And I'll be buying more next shopping trip.

Bedford, OH

#19 Aug 9, 2011
You act like I am a Democrat. lol I don't care about your party politics. I don't care about Gore or the people he sides with to make his money.

I am a social liberal and fiscal conservative. I share views from both parties.

As for what this country makes illegal, they can k@ss my ass. If what you are saying is true, then I will just buy my bulbs online. It would be the same thing as if I needed prescription drugs that were too expensive.

As for war, it can be waged for all kinds of reasons, but to say that it cannot be waged for corporations to make billions is insane. Somebody is receiving every tax dollar that is spent. Think about that.

Cleveland, OH

#20 Aug 9, 2011
The cost of both wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) is a little over one trillion dollars today since their start. Obama spent four times that amount in two years. Most of what he spent (borrowed) our money on was to promote Socialism or pander to his money givers such as environmentalists, trial lawyers and unions.

Obama's first address since the downgrade of our three star rating carried the same messages as he had since he took office: keep spending. That's right, he promoted the idea of spending more on union construction workers, extending unemployment benefits and keeping as many government dependents as possible.

If you are a social conservative, then perhaps you should pay attention to the dollars on the table instead of the pennies on the floor. This country could collapse with gasoline hitting $7.00 per gallon, but we could sure do without trains nobody will use, government forced healthcare, and new roads and bridges. Medicaid costs increased over 50% in the last three years, and there is no reason the non-working should get better medical care than the working. I would rather see my tax money being spent to give our troops more protection than I would feeding a family of seven who''s parents never worked a day in their lives.

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