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panafrican
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African4 wrote: I think there is no role for black in America. You're such a twisted hypocrite.
The violence in Zim will start once the weapons gets delivered.
Why is it that blacks are unable to rule themselves.
Are they just to dense or greedy, what is it???
Maybe they are cursed by God??? "Black unable to rule themselves" , here is racist who deserved nothing but be burnt alive. These people will never change. Europe where you are from has caused two world wars. Europeans can't rule themselves.The only thing they do is spray hate carriers that you all over every continent.
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hurricane
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Naco wrote: Actually most of you here are talking unmitigated rubbish.I will make my points as brief as possible.
...
3.Hurricane
I will quickly dismiss you a South African Boer who believes in the superiority of his own race.All this gives you a content smirk and serves only to prove how inferior Africans are.FYI, Africans are quite capable of running their own countries if given the chance and I won't even go into examples.
... Of course I am a Boer. And a white African. And proud of it. And still in Africa, and not run away like you, Naco. In spite of YOUR people stuffing up nearly everything the Boer built up in South Africa over 300 years, and the white colonialists built up in the rest of Africa over a hundred years. It's got buggerall to do with superiority or inferiority or racism, Naco. Just with facts. You understand 'FACTS'? As in F A C T S???? The fact that before the Boers and white colonialists came to Africa, there was sweet-blow-all, NOTHING, in the line of development and civilisation. The highest level of civilisation consisted of savage and bloodthirsty monsters ruling primitive pre-colonial states like Buganda with terror and fear. And the fact that within a hundred to three hundred years, there were in Africa jewels like Rhodesia, which became Zimbabwe. And South Africa, a first-world state with excellent infrastructure, urban development, health care, education, electricity, productive farms, clean water, rule of law, etc. If Rhodesia-Zimbabwe was the jewel of Africa, we were the bladdy diamand. Now that your people have had time to get going, this diamond of Africa is also being turned into a dung-heap, with the roads crumbling, trains derailing, cities becoming slums, land lying fallow, the sick dying in dirty hospitals, useless education certificates, water pollution, political judges drunk and corrupt, murdees galore, etc, etc. Just like in Zimbabwe, the Congo,Angola, Liberia, etc, etc. Where more or less developed African countries and bread-baskets of colonial times have after uhuru been turned into stuff-ups, slaughter-houses and begging-bowls. Ruled by terror and fear. While people like you and Thapelo are running off to white-ruled countries.... Naco, you and Thapelo,- don't you think it's about time you became a little less arrogant, and a little more humble, and start acknowledging that the white skin of the Boer and other whites was maybe not so much the skin of the oppressor,-as that of the employer, protector, healer and developer???? And that instead of looking for the splinter in the white man's eyes,- you should start looking for the log in yours?????
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Mhukahuru
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hurricane wrote: Just goes to prove what I've always said: In Black Africa, blacks on their own might not be prefectly content with their brutal, ruthless, destructive and barbarian chiefs,- but they are sure perfectly WILLING to bow down, out of fear, and they accept and live with the kind of murderous black regime they so frequently get, like Mugabe's, Idi Amin's, Mobutu's, etc, and further back in history Chaka's, the cruel Ugandan despots, etc.
It took the white man and colonialism to get rid of their despots FOR them, and introduce them to the kind of far more benevolent, Christian, efficient, humanitarian rule European civiliation had developed. Once the whites got tired and pulled out, Black Africa just reverted to what it had been before: Rule by the strongest, most brutal, most incompetent despot. And their people just accept it, out of fear, with the only difference to before being the possibility to run off to white-ruled states, which Thapelo has done, and which so many of them would like to do. Because they have tasted the white man's rule,- and they've seen how much better it is......
Can you now understand why we are so disgusted with idiots who rant and rail against the role of the whites in Africa??????? Bullshit. Whites have major problems of their own. You're talking as if Mugabe has been the worst ruler in history. The top five worst rulers were all whites. The reason why Africa is not doing well is that it is still new to the Western economic/political system that it has been forced to accept. Once we learn the system, we will be a force to reckon with.
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hurricane
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Mhukahuru wrote: <quoted text>
Bullshit. Whites have major problems of their own. You're talking as if Mugabe has been the worst ruler in history. The top five worst rulers were all whites.
The reason why Africa is not doing well is that it is still new to the Western economic/political system that it has been forced to accept. Once we learn the system, we will be a force to reckon with. Who said it was about the what you call the Western economic/political system? I don't care WHAT system you have,- as long as it works, benefits its citizens, has a minimum of some individual freedom, shows some development, feeds its people, and doesn't equal a slaughter-house or a ruin or a begging bowl. Now, you people became so arrogant and greedy you HAD to drive the whiteys out. Fine. Now you've been in charge of most of Africa for more than forty years. THEN WHY THE HELL IS IT WORSE OFF THAN BEFORE?????? And, more to the point,- why are YOU and millions of your people running, swimming and stowing away to get to the white-ruled world, where, as you said, you have the five worst rulers in history? Instead of staying in Africa, where, again as you said, you only have to 'learn the system', so you 'will be a force to reckon with'...??? Has it something to do with the possibility that you are talking rubbish, that, back at the kraal, your arrogance and greed has stuffed it up, big time, and black-ruled blacks are now worse off than they ever were under white rule?????
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ZIMLEE
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Sometimes it is good to visit a country and get feel of what people are going through before you make speculations. The Zimbabwean person values life, and is more worried about making sure his or her child is fed. Zimbabweans have lost family through AIDS and are still continuing to lose family through AIDS/HIV. Families have not seen each other in years because of migration, in such of better life. A Zimbabwean's priority is the security of his or her family. Besides Zimbabwean have chosen to look to the most powerful force who is God. We as Zimbabweans will continue to pray for God's intervention.
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ZIMLEE
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Shandi wrote: To Zimbabwe Image, First I notice you do not live in Africa (I wonder why)- always easy to say things when you are safe and living in peace. What on earth makes you think Morgan will give the land back to the whites, do you honestly believe those who have left will go back - I do not think so,(read reports from farmers who now reside in other countries) they have already made new lives in other countries. The few whites that are left are already there and very few are farmers. Someone needs to teach the people how to farm correctly on a large scale, which apparently they cannot do as it is not happening, so Agricultural mentors will need to be brought in to do this. Everyone goes on and on about the whites, they have not been in control of Zimbabwe for 28 years - it is about time you looked at the situation with open eyes. Mugabe destroyed a perfect country and no matter how you try and justify the land issue, that was his downfall. Had the land issue been managed better and done gradually they would not be in the situation they are in now. Most farmers understood the land issue and were willing to participate in land reform - Mugabe ran out of time that is the truth of the matter. Let me assure you the people do not care about the land issues right now - they are too busy trying to stay alive away from the marauding ZANU PF and trying to find food. All you have to do is turn the tables and see what your foremost thought would be if you were there - I can assure you it would not be the land!!! You under estimate the people - they know if they riot Mugabe will declare martial law and then they have him forever, they want him out their votes said so - the so called Mugabe government will gun them down so much for his thanks for fighting for freedom!! He will kill the very people who helped put him there!! Mugabe's Justice For All!! Shandi, Zimbabweans are not the first people to live abroad. Given the need people can migrate wherever they want, colonizing their way through nations, if that chance avails itself...
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ZIMLEE
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Dave Donelson wrote: There may be another factor at work here, too, although we're all so busy excoriating Robert Mugabe that we may not see it. Isn't it possible that the people of Zimbabwe aren't all that crazy about Morgan Tsvangirai? Don't get me wrong--I'm not saying Mugabe's repressive, economically disastrous regime is a better alternative. It's just that we in the West don't know that rule by MDC and Tsvangirai would necessarily be any better, and it's entirely possible that many people in Zim feel the same way. Change, even when it comes through popular vote, is no guarantee of improvement.
Dave Donelson, author of Heart of Diamonds Good call, Dave. As a writer I trust you might have a more careful approach to this issue.
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ZIMLEE
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hurricane wrote: <quoted text>
Of course I am a Boer. And a white African. And proud of it. And still in Africa, and not run away like you, Naco. In spite of YOUR people stuffing up nearly everything the Boer built up in South Africa over 300 years, and the white colonialists built up in the rest of Africa over a hundred years.
It's got buggerall to do with superiority or inferiority or racism, Naco. Just with facts. You understand 'FACTS'? As in F A C T S???? The fact that before the Boers and white colonialists came to Africa, there was sweet-blow-all, NOTHING, in the line of development and civilisation. The highest level of civilisation consisted of savage and bloodthirsty monsters ruling primitive pre-colonial states like Buganda with terror and fear.
And the fact that within a hundred to three hundred years, there were in Africa jewels like Rhodesia, which became Zimbabwe. And South Africa, a first-world state with excellent infrastructure, urban development, health care, education, electricity, productive farms, clean water, rule of law, etc. If Rhodesia-Zimbabwe was the jewel of Africa, we were the bladdy diamand.
Now that your people have had time to get going, this diamond of Africa is also being turned into a dung-heap, with the roads crumbling, trains derailing, cities becoming slums, land lying fallow, the sick dying in dirty hospitals, useless education certificates, water pollution, political judges drunk and corrupt, murdees galore, etc, etc.
Just like in Zimbabwe, the Congo,Angola, Liberia, etc, etc. Where more or less developed African countries and bread-baskets of colonial times have after uhuru been turned into stuff-ups, slaughter-houses and begging-bowls. Ruled by terror and fear. While people like you and Thapelo are running off to white-ruled countries....
Naco, you and Thapelo,- don't you think it's about time you became a little less arrogant, and a little more humble, and start acknowledging that the white skin of the Boer and other whites was maybe not so much the skin of the oppressor,-as that of the employer, protector, healer and developer???? And that instead of looking for the splinter in the white man's eyes,- you should start looking for the log in yours????? For some education, Hurricane, read Walter Rodney's How Europe Underdeveloped Africa.
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hurricane
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ZIMLEE wrote: <quoted text>
For some education, Hurricane, read Walter Rodney's How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. And for YOUR education, Zimlee, start LOOKING at what's happening in Africa, instead of hiding in the US where you ran off to, and flapping your gums. And in your spare time, read up on where African misrule, barbarism and slaughter, which you see in Zimbabwe today, comes from. The pathetic attempts at re-writing history to suit a contrived Black Africa hero worship has not succeeded yet in getting historians to lie. Look HONESTLY at the very same 'heroes' touted by your propagandists as paragons of virtue. Who, you people want us to believe, would have built paradise on earth if only the bad o'le whiteys hadn't interfered..... "...Chaka was the great chief of the Zulus. He had built up a nation of warriors, and made himself supreme over vast territories....Thus they (Chaka's impis) devastated the whole of the south-eastern corner of Africa, leaving the country almost bare of inhabitants. Fynn, who went with Chaka on one of his campaigns, describes the destruction of the Endwandwe tribe.... Then began a slaughter of the women and children. They were all put to death....The number of the hostile tribe, including women and children, could not have been less than forty thousand. The number of cattle taken was estimated at sixty thousand......But the slaughter did not end in the field. Every day Chaka made a sign and a dozen or so of his courtiers or wives were dragged to the hill of execution and beaten to death. Once, it is said, the crying of a child annoyed him, and he slew not only the child itself but all the other innocents, amounting to fifteen or twenty, among whom it took refuge. On another occasion he murdered all the old men, saying that "they were of no use as they could not fight." Isaacs gives an account of how on one day he killed one hundred and seventy girls and boys.......If a father shed tears as he was killing his son, he was killed too, for moral disobedience. On one day Chaka killed nine of his wives because they made remarks which displeased him. The Hill of Execution was white with the bones of his victims, and great troops of jackals and wolves always waited round the place for the food they knew was sure to come....These are only a few of many of Chaka's massacres, in which, it is estimated, at least a million of people were slaughtered...."
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hurricane
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Oh and by the by, Zimlee, - your Walter Rodney was one of these very revisionists I mentioned above. More a rabble-rouser and political agitator than a writer, he used the slave trade as an excuse for everything. He cleverly down-played the fact that black chiefs and Arabs were in cahoots and that they had been slaving long before the first white man ever set foot in central and eastern Africa. As he would also conveniently forget to mention that it was the whites who eventually stopped the Arabs, on the upper Guinea coast. And he simply lied about the pre-colonial black states in an attempt to make them appear truly great, instead of the caricatures they in fact were. In recent years even liberal scholars have expressed reservations about his book, at the very least perceiving it as 'controversial'.
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Analyzer
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Fear factor wrote: <quoted text>
Mugabe is said to have got 43%, Tsvangirayi got 47. Mugabe lost parliamentary majority. The other candidate he calls prostitute or frog has said he will back Tsvangirai. Mugabe is 84.
yet he wants to go for a run off. What Zanu PF and the MDC agreed on before the elections was that in order to be declared a winner, a candidate must have 50% plus 1 votes. If no candidate has this, then the elections would go into a run-off. While the MDC's Tsvangirai or frog wants to be crowned by the international community, Zanu PF's Mugabe wants the people of Zimbabwe to choose who should rule for the next five years.
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Analyzer
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Why is there no violence in Zimbabwe? Because the Zimbabwean electorate is relatively mature and is aware that violence does not achieve much apart from begetting more violence. The electorate is also aware that the MDC has got nothing to offer the people of Zimbabwe except maybe a lifting of the illegal sanctions that have been imposed on Zimbabwe. Sanctions which Tsvangirai supports and called for.
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Analyzer
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Were it not for the economic sanctions which Zimbabwe is groaning under, I doubt that Tsvangirai would have got the 47% vote that he got. It is not only Mugabe who is waging war on Zimbabweans. Tsvangirai is also doing the same. I also cannot imagine an opposition political party anywhere in the world winning an election after calling for sanctions to be imposed on the people it expects votes from.
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Magz
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Anyone who has ever lived in Zimbabwe will know all about fear, especially that through the barrel of a gun, an AK47 at that.
Naco, were you in Matebeleland in the early 80's when Mugabe sent his Korean trained 5th brigade in - bet you $100 you say no - my partner was witness to those who survived beatings, gang rape, torture that defies human understanding and still has nightmares... and you say Smith was bad - his biggest crime was being too paternalistic, that being he believed that black folk could not govern themselves.....
Zimbabweans themselves are of the most decent people on earth, but they are denied that today, instead they face starvation, daily brutality, a life expectancy of early 30's, denied education, health... and the world sits and rings their hands...
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hurricane
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Magz wrote: Anyone who has ever lived in Zimbabwe will know all about fear, especially that through the barrel of a gun, an AK47 at that.
Naco, were you in Matebeleland in the early 80's when Mugabe sent his Korean trained 5th brigade in - bet you $100 you say no - my partner was witness to those who survived beatings, gang rape, torture that defies human understanding and still has nightmares... and you say Smith was bad - his biggest crime was being too paternalistic, that being he believed that black folk could not govern themselves.....
Zimbabweans themselves are of the most decent people on earth, but they are denied that today, instead they face starvation, daily brutality, a life expectancy of early 30's, denied education, health... and the world sits and rings their hands... Quite right Magz. And WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? The black rulers' fault, no one else's. And who put Mugabe there in the first place, because they didn't have the guts to support Ian Smith, and didn't even have the guts to support Abel Musorewa?- Yes, you've guessed it: The Brits. Perfidious Albion. Has anyone heard a peep out of those b.stards saying they are sorry???? No, on the contrary. They went and did the very same thing here in SA....
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Traps
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hurricane
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Good article, Traps. But you know the answer to why Mbeki supports Mugabe against 'the people', don't you?
It's because 'the people' never really matter to black despots. And because these despots lording it over the different southern African countries have promised to prop each other up, come what may. Their 'powa' is more important to them than the interests of their people. Simple.
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Shandi
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Before I left Zimbabwe, I asked an old African man who he would like see rule Zimbabwe, he said with sad eyes, "we did not see". "When Ian Smith was here I was a bus driver I had six children. I owned a small house, my children went to school, my wife was happy she had food everyday and I had spare cash to go to the beer drink". "Now my sons/daughters have better jobs than I had, they struggle to send their children to school and feed them." "We did not see". In Smiths days the African staple diet was subsidised by the government, making it cheaper and available to all. At least Smith cared about his people of all races. He would never ever have done what Mugabe has done. Attacked his own
people!!!! He never did tell me who he wanted
to rule Zimbabwe, but I take it from his comments
he was trying to tell me they were better off in
Ian Smiths days!!!! Morgan is Zimbabwe's only chance, the sooner the Regional Leaders acknowledge this, the sooner the people of Zimbabwe can try and rebuild their broken country!
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Shandi
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To Zim-Lee - Who the hell said people from Zimbabwe could not migrate their way thru nations
as you say. Read my paragraph properly and you
will see what I was trying to say. Actually first
read the paragraph I was replying to written by
Zimbabwe Image - then you may be able to put two and two together!!! Hopefully!!!!
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African4
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Black leaders use propaganda to demonise white leaders. The only reason they do so, is to get to be king. Once they are they don't care about their subjects. Actually thy never cared about their subjects.
Propaganda is the easiest tool to use.
The illiterate always eat it up like candy.
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Judge it!
Taurus
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